How can extremely religious adults be taken seriously.

[Zach Lowe]

Agnosticism is already a cop out

but agnostic atheism? that's a double cop out

at least make up your mind between true atheism and true agnosticism instead of mixing the two

 

[NoMayo15]

if they're mutually exclusive then why does a real atheist (who fits the traditional definition) just identify as an atheist and you fake atheists with no balls have to qualify it with "weak", "agnostic", and all that

Who are you talking about? "Fake" atheists, as you call them, DO identify as just "atheist". I've already provided you examples of prominent atheists who hold the exact same stance as I do. According to you, Richard Dawkins is a pseudo atheist as well. So who the hell are you referring to when you say "real" atheist?

I suspect that you may just be , so I think I'm about done.

 

[ltheghost]

I swear those born again types always piss me off. One of my homeboys called me to tell me he got saved and is now born again but I kept thinking..."This nikka probably smoked some dirt weed or got arrested....again...

 

[Zach Lowe]

Who are you talking about? "Fake" atheists, as you call them, DO identify as just "atheist". I've already provided you examples of prominent atheists who hold the exact same stance as I do. According to you Richard Dawkins is a pseudo atheist as well. So who the hell are you referring to when you say "real" atheist?

I suspect that you may just be , so I think I'm about done.

A real atheist thinks that there is no God and thinks he's right (not that no one can surely be right, which indicates an agnostic twist)

is that not the traditional definition? does the standard atheist openly profess agnosticism as well? no they don't, just as you didn't until you were forced to later way after your first post

and you think agnostic/weak atheism is not a weaker position than just atheism



you said atheism is the only position of pure disbelief

no, that is agnosticism

atheism and theism are both belief centered positions

 

[Zach Lowe]

Mayonnaise: Atheism is the only completely rational position that doesn't include unproven beliefs
Me: No, that would be agnosticism
Mayonnaise: OK, then I'm agnostic too - I'm agnostic atheist
Me:

see how son is flip flopping? not to mention that the atheist element of being agnostic atheist is still not completely rational and is still an unproven belief

 

[NoMayo15]

A real atheist thinks that there is no God and thinks he's right (not that no one can surely be right, which indicates an agnostic twist)

is that not the traditional definition? does the standard atheist openly profess agnosticism as well? no they don't, just as you didn't until you were forced to later way after your first post

You understand that words can have different meanings, rights? Today's standard atheists are technically agnostic as well. They disbelieve in gods, but they also do not claim ultimate knowledge on the matter. Sure, there are some that claim they also know no gods exist, but that's not the norm ... and that's not the only type of atheist. Pretending that is the only type of atheist is fallacious.

And I can understand. When I was making my transition from theist to atheist, my understanding of these terms and what an atheist was was ultimately misguided. What I learned from non-belief was primarily picked up from the church, so I didn't know WTF I was talking about. It wasn't until I read, and learned what atheism was that I was able to accept the atheist label.

You seem to be in that same phase where you're clinging to some preconceived definition of what an atheist is, despite multiple people telling you that you're wrong. It's okay, breh. It's okay to admit you're wrong, and accept the definition the rest of the world uses when they say "atheist".

So no, I didn't profess agnosticism as well when I said I was an atheist originally because I didn't have to. Again, just about ever prominent atheist will say they are ultimately both agnostics and atheists ... but those labels refer to different questions.

and you think agnostic/weak atheism is not a weaker position than just atheism. you said atheism is the only position of pure disbelief. no, that is agnosticism. atheism and theism are both belief centered positions

Clearly you are an idiot, as you don't know what MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE means. You don't know what you're talking about. Good day, sir.

 

[Zach Lowe]

@NoMayo15
So you don't think a standard atheist is pretty firm in his atheism and doesn't feel it's necessary to add a qualifier like "weak" or "agnostic"?

You seem so sure that all atheists have no balls like you

You didn't profess it because you want all the strength of the atheist position without any of the coppin pleas of the agnostic position



the post above yours is my final post to you

please don't reply to me anymore

good luck with your agnostic atheism keep telling yourself that it's a completely rational and dispassionate position

 

[Zach Lowe]

last comment that I forgot to make (last post for real this time)

son is running a million miles with this mutually exclusive shyt

yes you can be any combination of a/gnostic and a/theist but agnosticism does indeed weaken your so-called atheism

you're one of those losers with a million reasons why you're an atheist but when you're sufficiently challenged you'll back down and cop pleas "wait I'm agnostic too "

ok that's it I don't wanna reply to Mayonnaise anymore there are better threads out

 

[NoMayo15]

Mayonnaise: Atheism is the only completely rational position that doesn't include unproven beliefs
Me: No, that would be agnosticism
Mayonnaise: OK, then I'm agnostic too - I'm agnostic atheist


see how son is flip flopping?

Those statements aren't contradictory. Atheism doesn't include unproven beliefs. The only thing atheism asserts is that theists haven't met the burden of proof to prove a God exists. Has it been proven that a god exists? Okay then.

Anything in addition to that is not a belief regarding one's atheism.

Also, I find it telling that you have no response when I ask for specific strong atheists, which you claim is the norm. I've already stated several of the more famous atheists, who are also agnostic atheists. You have yet to give a single example. It's much more rarer than you're making it out to be. But you're so blind to this fact, that you're going to keep rambling on, as if it were true.

Read a freakin book, man. Do some basic research on atheism before you come here spouting nonsense. Maybe then your posts will have some substance, other than conjecture, and 20 skip bayless smileys.

 

[Zach Lowe]

@NoMayo15

you're in here using terms like strong and weak atheism

I thought the mutually exclusivity of a/theism and a/gnosticism means that you can be a strong atheist and still be agnostic? so is this true or not? you're saying all this mutually exclusive shyt and still acknowledging strong/weak atheism which says that a high degree of atheism is not compatible with agnosticism and a low degree of atheism is not compatible with gnosticism

just by using the terms strong/weak atheism you're inadvertently showing that you believe the mutual exclusivity ends at certain points

I have no response to listing specific strong atheists because I don't make it my business to learn about who is a strong atheist wtf do I care who is a strong atheist

I'm sure they're out there if you look for them



those who call themselves solely atheist do not admit that they're also agnostic unless forced to like you have shown in this thread

in the real world strong atheists identify with atheism and weak atheists identify with agnosticism

the average person isn't aware of people combining the terms like you do

it's better that they don't know because it adds another dimension of copping pleas like you have demonstrated

are you gonna stfu now

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

 

[NoMayo15]

yes you can be any combination of a/gnostic and a/theist but agnosticism does indeed weaken your so-called atheism

you're one of those losers with a million reasons why you're an atheist but when you're sufficiently challenged you'll back down and cop pleas "wait I'm agnostic too

What do you mean 'weaken'? I'm sorry that you so desperately want the atheistic position to be as blind, and misguided as the theistic one, but that's simply not the case. You want things to be black and white like that so you have crazies on one side arguing with crazies on the other, and life is simple and "they're both just as annoying, blah blah". Sorry to burst your bubble, but life isn't like that. It's not just black and white, there are shades of grey. And someone who's intellectually honest can't say they KNOW for a fact that a god doesn't exist ... just like someone who's intellectually honest can't say the Bible is 100% scientifically accurate, and contains moral guidelines that can withstand the test of time. Sorry bro, that's not the world we live in.

Bottom line is I am an atheist. I don't believe a god exists. But I'm also agnostic. I don't claim to know for certain whether a god exists or not. Your belief, and your claim to knowledge are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, and you can be both without there being a contradiction. The fact that you can't follow this, or think that this somehow makes my position less likely to be true tells me all I need to know about you.

Please, I beg you, go back to talking about Rick Ross' beard, and Waka Flockas dreads. There are a lot of mental midgets in this subforum, but you especially do not belong in HL. You are the cancer that's killing HL.

 

[Zach Lowe]

What do you mean 'weaken'? I'm sorry that you so desperately want the atheistic position to be as blind, and misguided as the theistic one, but that's simply not the case. You want things to be black and white like that so you have crazies on one side arguing with crazies on the other, and life is simple and "they're both just as annoying, blah blah". Sorry to burst your bubble, but life isn't like that. It's not just black and white, there are shades of grey. And someone who's intellectually honest can't say they KNOW for a fact that a god doesn't exist ... just like someone who's intellectually honest can't say the Bible is 100% scientifically accurate, and contains moral guidelines that can withstand the test of time. Sorry bro, that's not the world we live in.

Bottom line is I am an atheist. I don't believe a god exists. But I'm also agnostic. I don't claim to know for certain whether a god exists or not. Your belief, and your claim to knowledge are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, and you can be both without there being a contradiction. The fact that you can't follow this, or think that this somehow makes my position less likely to be true tells me all I need to know about you.

Please, I beg you, go back to talking about Rick Ross' beard, and Waka Flockas dreads. There are a lot of mental midgets in this subforum, but you especially do not belong in HL. You are the cancer that's killing HL.

you're an idiot who didn't even have his position clearly set until I forced you to pick one and you're still holding onto this "badass/hardcore intellectual atheist" position bytch please you already admitted that you're also agnostic your hardcore atheist pass has been revoked

you're talking about intellectual honesty and your first post in this thread was that atheism (with no qualifier) is the only rational position

now I forced you to admit that it's really agnosticism

you're disappointing me with your position changes

how can you say that your doubt or lack thereof cannot effect your beliefs? in your fantasy world they're completely separate no, they are associated

I guess this is the position you find yourself in being a fierce atheist but being forced to acknowledge that agnosticism is the only dispassionate and rational position free of personal belief

 

[NoMayo15]

@NoMayo15

you're in here using terms like strong and weak atheism

I thought the mutually exclusivity of a/theism and a/gnosticism means that you can be a strong atheist and still be agnostic? so is this true or not?

No, being a strong atheist means you are a gnostic atheist. You claim you know for certain a god does not exist. That's strong atheism.

you're saying all this mutually exclusive shyt and still acknowledging strong/weak atheism which says that a high degree of atheism is not compatible with agnosticism and a low degree of atheism is not compatible with gnosticism

just by using the terms strong/weak atheism you're inadvertently showing that you believe the mutual exclusivity ends at certain points

I have no response to listing specific strong atheists because I don't make it my business to learn about who is a strong atheist wtf do I care who is a strong atheist

I'm sure they're out there if you look for them

They don't exist like that, fam. You might find a couple, but the overwhelming majority are agnostic/weak atheists.

those who call themselves solely atheist do not admit that they're also agnostic unless forced to like you have shown in this thread

Exactly, because it confuses dumb people, like the one I've been arguing with these past few pages.

in the real world strong atheists identify with atheism and weak atheists identify with agnosticism

Sure. And those "agnostics" are mistaken. They are also atheist or theists. They just reject the label, because there's a stigma associated with being an atheist ... people were killed for it back in the day. Today, people just think you worship the devil, which is just as bad.

Look at the flipside. There are some Christians that will admit they don't really know if God exists or not, but they believe anyway because it comforts them, or whatever. They'll accept the Christian/theist label, but technically they're also agnostics. Just because people don't go into specifics about their beliefs when they choose a label, doesn't mean they don't hold varying beliefs.

the average person isn't aware of people combining the terms like you do

Okay, the average person is ignorant towards these things. So what? They're wrong, and should educate themselves on what these labels actually mean.

it's better that they don't know because it adds another dimension of copping pleas like you have demonstrated
are you gonna stfu now

Don't even know what this means.

 

[Zach Lowe]

The only thing atheism asserts is that theists haven't met the burden of proof to prove a God exists.

Again, you're using atheism when you should be saying agnosticism

Agnosticism says that both sides (atheism/theism) haven't proven their belief

Atheism makes its own counterclaim to theism that there is no God

if all atheism did was deny theism and not make an opposite claim itself then it would be pure agnosticism (agnosticism without leaning toward theism or atheism)

and that is the only 100% rational and dispassionate position, not agnostic atheism which is what you're professing now

your agnosticism is rational but your atheism is an unproven belief just like theism

just by using the agnostic qualifier you're showing that you understand this yet you're still clinging to your past statements which you've backed down from, now you're just sticking to them for trolling or for ego reasons