Honestly, Bill Russell is the most disrespected man in NBA history!

GreatestLaker

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A few things.

He wasn't even the best player in his own era. Anyone who watched basketball back then would tell you it was Wilt.

Basketball was still in its infancy. There were only 8 teams back then. The playoffs consisted of 2 rounds.

Ranking players based on team accomplishments is dumb ass hell.
 
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Don't forget those college chips too. Also, he's in the Hall twice as player and coach.

=====

I wish Cathy Hughes continued her Visionary Project. That ether Mr. Russell delivered to that reporter is the stuff of legend.



"Where is the failure?" - Bill Russell

:mjlol:
 

inndaskKy

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A few things.

He wasn't even the best player in his own era. Anyone who watched basketball back then would tell you it was Wilt.

Basketball was still in its infancy. There were only 8 teams back then. The playoffs consisted of 2 rounds.

Ranking players based on team accomplishments is dumb ass hell.
This. If anything, players who won rings are overrated in the GOAT discussion while players who don't are underrated.
 

Carlton Banks

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A few things.

He wasn't even the best player in his own era. Anyone who watched basketball back then would tell you it was Wilt.

Basketball was still in its infancy. There were only 8 teams back then. The playoffs consisted of 2 rounds.

Ranking players based on team accomplishments is dumb ass hell.

Okay, but put yourself in that man's shoes :dame:

You won 11 rings, 5 MVPS, and all these misc awards. And now you get to turn on ESPN and hear them argue about Lebron/MJ all day and bring up accomplishments like rings/mvps etc etc and you've done all that and more. Now you get to watch people act like your accomplishments didn't mean anything. So I guess fukk everybody that balled before the 80's, huh?
 

Professor Emeritus

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Y'all talk like Bill Russell didn't enter a league that had just 1 other Black center. There were just 8 teams and if you won 1 series you automatically made the Finals. His squad had the reigning MVP when he joined and like 6 other HOFers, and his owner literally bribed the other owner so that he wouldn't draft Russell and let him drop to his team. It's not the same sport and you can't compare the title #'s the same way, come on now.



Then these analysts and fans will have nerve to say LeBron has the highest basketball IQ ever or some shyt, like he got 11 rings or even knew what the game was really like without the 3 pointer, and all these other rules. Bill Russell was that dude.

How come all that basketball IQ couldn't buy him a bucket on offense despite a massive athletic advantage?

In the '57 Finals, Bill Russell averaged 13ppg on 35% shooting while being guarded by 6'8" Bob Pettitt. How the fukk do you miss 2/3 of your shots against this guy? And if you want to talk defense.....Pettitt averaged 30 and 18 on 39% shooting in the same series:

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In the '58 Finals, Bill Russell averaged 15 and 19 on 35% shooting on his way to losing the series. Pettit averaged 29 and 17 on 42% shooting, but often played PF. At center time was split between 6'8", 185 pound "Easy Ed" MacCulley and 6'11", 235 lb stiff Chuck Share.

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In the '59 Finals, the Celtics faced the 33-39 Minneapolis Lakers. That's right, a 33-39 team made the fukking NBA Finals. The Lakers only played one player over 6'7", the 6'9" Larry Foust. Russell averaged 9ppg on 31% shooting against this intimidating opponent.

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1960 Finals and he faced the Hawks yet again. This time around he did better offensively, averaging 17ppg on 47% shooting. The Hawks were now starting 6'9" Clyde Lovelette at center, who himself averaged 16ppg on 39% shooting while Pettit put up 26ppg on 47%.

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1961 and its the Hawks yet again. Lovelette was splitting time at center with 6'7" Woody Sauldsberry, the first time Russell had faced a black center in a Finals. Sauldsberry was a career 34.8% shooter from the field. In the series Russell averaged 18ppg on 45% shooting, while Pettit put up 28ppg on 40% shooting, Lovelette 14ppg on 36% shooting, and Sauldsberry 10ppg on 25% shooting.

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1962 Finals, the Celtics faced the Lakers with their 6'8" center Jim Krebs. Russell had his best Finals to date, averaging 23ppg on 54% shooting to partially offset Elgin Baylor's 41ppg on 43% shooting. Krebs, a mediocre player who averaging just 8ppg in his seven NBA seasons, put up 9ppg on 41% shooting in this Finals.

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1963 Finals and the Lakers had brought in 6'10" rookie Gene Wiley to help out Krebs at center. Wiley ended up a bust, averaging just 4ppg in 4 NBA seasons. Against the Krebs/Wiley combo, Russell averaged 20ppg on 46% shooting. Neither Krebs nor Wiley did jack shyt offensively, though Baylor put up 34ppg on 47% shooting to lead the Lakers.

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1964 Finals were a completely different experience. The Warriors started both Wilt Chamberlain and rookie Nate Thurmond, a two-headed defensive powerhouse. Against this combo Russell averaged just 11ppg on 38% shooting. Wilt averaged 29ppg on 52% shooting and Nate added 11ppg on 32% shooting, but it wasn't enough to overcome Russell's HOF supporting cast of Sam Jones, Havlicek, and Heinsohn.


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1965 and we're back to the Lakers, who continue to play career 4ppg scorer Gene Wiley at center, now with help from young Leroy Ellis who would go on to a better though not spectacular bball career. This Finals Russell averages 18ppg on 58% shooting, while Willis puts up 18ppg on 42% shooting and Wiley 8ppg on 52%.

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1966 is the Lakers yet again (with so few teams you see the same guys a lot) and now Ellis is the full-time center. Russell averages 24ppg on 54% shooting, Ellis 12ppg on 42% as he defers offensively to Baylor, West, and Goodrich.

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1968 and the Lakers are playing mediocre 6'10" veteran Darral Imhoff at center. Russell averages 17ppg on 43% shooting, Imhoff 9ppg on 42%

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1969 and the Lakers now have Wilt at center. Russell averages just 9ppg on 40% shooting in his final Finals, but Wilt is at 11ppg on 50% shooting and the Celtics still win.

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Every time it's claimed, "Russell is the best because of his Finals record!" it needs to be remembered that THAT is who he faced and what he did there. A string of undersized white guys mixed with occasional scrubs outside of the 2 years he faced Wilt in a Finals (most of their matchups were in the ECF). Yes he was a great defender and rebounder for his era, but is that enough to make him the GOAT when he couldn't take over offensively despite often having a significant advantage in size and athleticism?

Obviously I'm only focusing on the negative rather than the positive, but it's needed to counterbalance the narrative. Titles are a team achievement, and between Hall of Famers Russell, Cousy, Sharman, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, Ramsey, and Havlicek, Boston had one of the most stacked teams of all time. Russell still deserves mention among the great players of the NBA, but the weakness of his competition and the one-dimensional nature of his game deserves mention too.
 

FukkaPaidEmail

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The old heads back then in his generation would tell you he wasn’t the greatest …They always lean towards Oscar and Wilt being better . So if the people that watched him think that what you think would happen as future generations come into existence?
 

Hey_zeus

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I hate it when use his era against him. The NBA had to start somewhere. It wouldn't be where it's at if it wasn't for players like him.
It's really odd and disrespectful. nikkas online typing dissertations to discredit a dude who did nothing but win and lead 60 years ago. Energy could be much better used.
 

Hathaway

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Basketball wouldn't be what is was if not for Russell. But, his era was the infancy NBA. This is why people like MJ and other oldheads don't compare players or entertain the GOAT argument because it's difficult to compare eras. They are to different. Different rules, different levels of athleticism, different advantages and disadvantages.

How can you say a guy who was only 1 of 2 players over 6'9, played in a league with only 8 teams, 1 or 2 round playoffs, and vs unatheletic cacs is the goat? The game has evolved too much and has become tremendously more difficult and competitive to declare a player from the 50s-60s as the goat.

This does not mean we diminish his accomplishments. Russell is a God and deserves to be treated as such in the basketball realm. But context matters in these conversations.
 

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