Honduras Signs Deal to Create Private Cities

[theworldismine13]

the logic is that you cant transpose bahamian economic planning to other countries ie honduras, paraguay, bolivia, hong kong. hong kong is a lot like whats being proposed by these people for honduras, and hong kong is a mess, unless youre one of the rich ones

I wasn't trying to transpose economic planning, in fact I said that you shouldn't, what I said is that economic freedom is related to economic prosperity, that was the point of bringing up bahamas, and that's all I said

I think you read something that wasn't there, economic freedom just means its easy to open up a business and you have clear laws and regulations, it's not an economic plan

Promoting economic freedom can be part of an economic plan but in and of itself it's not an economic plan, and it's definitely not a social plan

I think that is where you are confused

As far as hong kong, like I said, at least hong kong has money to argue about, I'm sure hong kong isn't perfect but it's news to me that it's a mess

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

I wasn't trying to transpose economic planning, in fact I said that you shouldn't, what I said is that economic freedom is related to economic prosperity, that was the point of bringing up bahamas, and that's all I said

I think you read something that wasn't there, economic freedom just means its easy to open up a business and you have clear laws and regulations, it's not an economic plan

Promoting economic freedom can be part of an economic plan but in and of itself it's not an economic plan, and it's definitely not a social plan

I think that is where you are confused

As far as hong kong, like I said, at least hong kong has money to argue about, I'm sure hong kong isn't perfect but it's news to me that it's a mess

yeah hong kong has a lot of problems. for one it has the highest wealth gap in that part of the world, which still is increasing.

Hong Kong's Wealth Gap Gets Larger - China Real Time Report - WSJ

Hong Kong's Rich-Poor Divide Widens as Population Ages - Asia Business News - CNBC - CNBC

The city’s wealth gap now outstrips that of Singapore, the United Kingdom and Australia as well as other major cities notorious for inequality such as Washington and New York City, says the Hong Kong’s Census and Statistics Department.

In explaining Hong Kong’s entrenched wealth gap, analysts cite the economy’s overwhelming reliance on the services sector, particularly finance, which has created wealth for some but failed to provide significant numbers of well-paying jobs across the board. While income grew 60% among the city’s top 10% of earners between 2001-2010, it dropped by 20% among those in the bottom 10%.

this is one of the most economically free societies on the planet, but its a terrible place to live unless youre part of its elite ie its poor having to live in things like cage homes and coffin homes

Hong Kong under pressure as poverty levels rise - Telegraph

Soup kitchens have become increasingly popular, and Shep Kip Mai's has doubled the amount of food it distributes in the past three years.

"But there is still not enough to meet demand," said Wong Siuching, a campaigner for Oxfam. "I have been to five or six soup kitchens recently and half the time fights have broken out because there was not enough."

 

[nalej]

Am I the only one that pictures one of these cities eventually having Hunger Games or Running Man type game shows?

 

[T'Kuvma Da Unforgettable]

lol@being an illegal immigrant in your own country

 

[theworldismine13]

yeah hong kong has a lot of problems. for one it has the highest wealth gap in that part of the world, which still is increasing.

Hong Kong's Wealth Gap Gets Larger - China Real Time Report - WSJ

Hong Kong's Rich-Poor Divide Widens as Population Ages - Asia Business News - CNBC - CNBC

hong kong has problems just like any other country, but like i said their problem is discussing where to spend money, which is a way different problem than honduras that has no money to spend

and even the article you quoted says that part of the reason is an aging population which they can't control and singapore which is also one of the freest economies in the world does a better job of managing the gap, so again economic freedom is not a social plan, at the end of the day economic freedom can generate wealth but what the country chooses to do is up to them

this is one of the most economically free societies on the planet, but its a terrible place to live unless youre part of its elite ie its poor having to live in things like cage homes and coffin homes

Hong Kong under pressure as poverty levels rise - Telegraph

what exactly are you comparing hong kong too?

honduras has a 60% poverty rate Honduras - Population below poverty line - Historical Data Graphs per Year
hong kong according to your article is approaching 20%

its no brainer which system is working better

 

[theworldismine13]

Good article on hong kong vs india
Poverty and Wealth: India Versus Hong Kong | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty

Hong kong poverty
Poverty blights the dream of Hong Kong - FT.com

It looks like the government definitely needs to increase social spending but one curious thing where hong king is not free is in real estate

Apparently 40 percent of the people live in public housing and the goverent owns all the land, so basically there isn't really a free market in real estate in HK which would explain their housing problem

Doubts over $57m Hong Kong flat sale - FT.com

In Hong Kong, the government owns virtually all land. It releases plots for auction only after a developer's offer triggers a reserve price and then only if the plot has been put on a shortlist for offer. The system has been criticised for creating a mismatch in supply and demand. Between 2010 and 2012, only 11,000 flats are expected to come to market each year. In 2008, 18,000 new flats were bought, according to CLSA.
Since property companies pay steep prices for land, they are often motivated to build high-end projects to recoup their investment.

 

[theworldismine13]

FTL Interviews Michael Strong About Free Cities by Free Talk Live on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Interview with Michael strong... Leader of the group making it happen

sounds good, it will be interesting

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

the thing about hong kong was that it was basically a place set up by the british to do business extremely cheaply and not be bogged down with various taxes. basically, it was a business friendly place for them and their friends to avoid being taxed, to access extremely cheap labor, and to make super profits. but since then there has been a rise of many more cheap manufacturing centers around the world, increasing competition for the cheapest manufacturing, thus permanently stagnating wages and creating re location to increasingly cheaper areas. consequently manufacturing in hong kong has basically disappeared

from your link: "Indeed, the prospects for Hong Kong were dismal. Yet by making cheap products for export to the faraway West, it managed to become the powerhouse of Southeast Asia" <-- invalid statement about the contemporary state of hong kong

thus in hong kong what you now have is a service economy with many left over relics from its manufacturing past eg they only just recently passed minimum wage laws in 2010 and are still the only place in the developed world where there are no direct elections. its basically a crumbling society and a glimpse of what these economically free manufacturing centers really are at their core

cheap manufacturing centers like this are created from a premise of generating super profits thus in that kind of society you see things like stagnant wages, poorer safety nets, and a diminishing manufacturing base as the push for the cheapest manufacturing unravels like a ball of yarn from place to place around the world over time. these kinds of innate problems are occurring in singapore too with the distinction that they have greater safety nets as they unlike hong kong at least have an ability to vote for things

Low wages test loyalty to Singapore ruling party | Inquirer Global Nation

in the case of honduras, its an improvement from whats already there, but the premise of that society seems exactly similar to places like hong kong; places specially designed to create economies of stagnant wages and ever increasing wealth gaps. unlike singapore, will the people of these new autonomous honduran cities be able to even vote for who they want to lead them or what kind of things they think these societies ought to have?

as they are completely owned by businessmen, it makes me question if this is even a new low tax, cheap manufacturing hub or just a really large gated community for the mega rich

 

[TrueEpic08]

the thing about hong kong was that it was basically a place set up by the british to do business extremely cheaply and not be bogged down with various taxes. basically, it was a business friendly place for them and their friends to avoid being taxed, to access extremely cheap labor, and to make super profits. but since then there has been a rise of many more cheap manufacturing centers around the world, increasing competition for the cheapest manufacturing, thus permanently stagnating wages and creating re location to increasingly cheaper areas. consequently manufacturing in hong kong has basically disappeared

from your link: "Indeed, the prospects for Hong Kong were dismal. Yet by making cheap products for export to the faraway West, it managed to become the powerhouse of Southeast Asia" <-- invalid statement about the contemporary state of hong kong

thus in hong kong what you now have is a service economy with many left over relics from its manufacturing past eg they only just recently passed minimum wage laws in 2010 and are still the only place in the developed world where there are no direct elections. its basically a crumbling society and a glimpse of what these economically free manufacturing centers really are at their core

cheap manufacturing centers like this are created from a premise of generating super profits thus in that kind of society you see things like stagnant wages, poorer safety nets, and a diminishing manufacturing base as the push for the cheapest manufacturing unravels like a ball of yarn from place to place around the world over time. these kinds of innate problems are occurring in singapore too with the distinction that they have greater safety nets as they unlike hong kong at least have an ability to vote for things

Low wages test loyalty to Singapore ruling party | Inquirer Global Nation

in the case of honduras, its an improvement from whats already there, but the premise of that society seems exactly similar to places like hong kong; places specially designed to create economies of stagnant wages and ever increasing wealth gaps. unlike singapore, will the people of these new autonomous honduran cities be able to even vote for who they want to lead them or what kind of things they think these societies ought to have?

as they are completely owned by businessmen, it makes me question if this is even a new low tax, cheap manufacturing hub or just a really large gated community for the mega rich

Basically.

Not a damn thing about this is new, it's just a matter of where in the web this'll drop between Free Trade Zone, incorporated private suburb, corporatist country like Hong Kong and Southern Cone '80s Right-Wing dictatorship. I mean, many economists seemed on the level in the '60s and '70s too before they got involved in Latin American politics and economics.

 

[theworldismine13]

the thing about hong kong was that it was basically a place set up by the british to do business extremely cheaply and not be bogged down with various taxes. basically, it was a business friendly place for them and their friends to avoid being taxed, to access extremely cheap labor, and to make super profits. but since then there has been a rise of many more cheap manufacturing centers around the world, increasing competition for the cheapest manufacturing, thus permanently stagnating wages and creating re location to increasingly cheaper areas. consequently manufacturing in hong kong has basically disappeared

from your link: "Indeed, the prospects for Hong Kong were dismal. Yet by making cheap products for export to the faraway West, it managed to become the powerhouse of Southeast Asia" <-- invalid statement about the contemporary state of hong kong

thus in hong kong what you now have is a service economy with many left over relics from its manufacturing past eg they only just recently passed minimum wage laws in 2010 and are still the only place in the developed world where there are no direct elections. its basically a crumbling society and a glimpse of what these economically free manufacturing centers really are at their core

cheap manufacturing centers like this are created from a premise of generating super profits thus in that kind of society you see things like stagnant wages, poorer safety nets, and a diminishing manufacturing base as the push for the cheapest manufacturing unravels like a ball of yarn from place to place around the world over time. these kinds of innate problems are occurring in singapore too with the distinction that they have greater safety nets as they unlike hong kong at least have an ability to vote for things

Low wages test loyalty to Singapore ruling party | Inquirer Global Nation

in the case of honduras, its an improvement from whats already there, but the premise of that society seems exactly similar to places like hong kong; places specially designed to create economies of stagnant wages and ever increasing wealth gaps. unlike singapore, will the people of these new autonomous honduran cities be able to even vote for who they want to lead them or what kind of things they think these societies ought to have?

as they are completely owned by businessmen, it makes me question if this is even a new low tax, cheap manufacturing hub or just a really large gated community for the mega rich

the problem with your criticizing cheap labor and places designed designed to business friendly is that its pretty much the only that has been shown to bring people out of poverty

its not just hong kong that was designed that, that is the way the united states, japan, south korea and taiwan were built

this is one of the actual rankings http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking so this theory goes beyond just hong kong

even in china, it works that way, china brought up 600 million people out of poverty after they liberalized their economy A statistical review of Chinas reduction of poverty - by Christine Zibas - Helium

the bottom line to all this is that hong kong has a 20% poverty rate and honduras has a 60% poverty rate, so if honduras were to follow hong kong's path it would theoretically reduce poverty in Honduras by 40%

as far as a social safety net, thats just more of a first world problem that each country has to figure for itself, but like i said at least hong kong, like the US, has the money to create a safety net and it has money to argue over, thats a luxury that countries like honduras, where more than half the people live in poverty dont have

you are talking as if their is some other alternative or a superior system to bringing people out of poverty, there isnt

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

yes/no should they ask for things like increasing wages and more safety nets

 

[theworldismine13]

yes/no should they ask for things like increasing wages and more safety nets

who is "they"

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

oh sorry the cheap workforces that power the economies of these kinds of societies

 

[newworldafro]

when I first read abou this... I was like don't the Afro-Indian folks live on the Caribbean side of some of the Central American countries........

 

[Darts]

This model would be doomed to failure. Basic human nature and greed would take over eventually and since the powers that be can practically make their own rules, the corruption level and exploitation would be obscene.


It would be an interesting teaching tool on crony capitalism tho.