Hip-Hop Blasphemy: It Was Written Is Better Than Illmatic (Episode 2)

[spliz]

I think when it is claimed IWW is better lyrically they talking more about technical proficiency meaning the use of rhetorical techniques. And it sounded "flyer" but that's Nas' best attempt to replicate the sort of buttery smooth shyt Rae/Ghost were spitting and HOV to an extent too (inadvertently or not).

Illmatic is more lyrically effective.

Nas was not biting no damn Jay with IWW. smh. He was rapping that way a whole year prior to release. And wasn't shyt dumbed down. Dude was a less raw. More polished. technical genius on IWW. He had storytelling tracks. He had his deep shyt. He had some flashy rhymes. He had personification. Concepts. All of that present on IWW. It wasn't less substance. To me. Illmatic is the better album. Cause it's literally flawless imo. Main difference was it wasn't as relatable substance wise as Illmatic was. Illmatic was just a genuine journey into to the mind of a young nikka from the hood. But he couldn't do that same shyt AGAIN. That's what people don't understand. It was substance. But a different kind of substance.

 

[spliz]

IWW isn't even the best disappointing album of 1996.

Beats, Rhymes & Life > IWW

Wrath of the Math > IWW


But as resident Nas defense mechanism @spliz noted, most Nas "fans" heard IWW first and therefore shouldn't ever be taken seriously in this particular discussion.

No offense but it's mainly white boys like u who hate IWW so much. I guess Nas' own brother shouldn't be taken seriously either right? He was there for both recording processes. He likes IWW more. I had Illmatic cassette on release. I like Illmatic more but that's cause the album is flawless to me. Not cause IWW is wack.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Nas was not biting no damn Jay with IWW. smh. He was rapping that way a whole year prior to release. And wasn't shyt dumbed down. Dude was a less raw. More polished. technical genius on IWW. He had storytelling tracks. He had his deep shyt. He had some flashy rhymes. He had personification. Concepts. All of that present on IWW. It wasn't less substance. To me. Illmatic is the better album. Cause it's literally flawless imo. Main difference was it wasn't as relatable substance wise as Illmatic was. Illmatic was just a genuine journey into to the mind of a young nikka from the hood. But he couldn't do that same shyt AGAIN. That's what people don't understand. It was substance. But a different kind of substance.

I didn't say biting anyone. I said his rhyme style changed in tune with the kinda styles employed by Jay and Rae/Ghost. It was a fusion of sorts. The lyrical spectrum and clarity of Jay mixed with the subject matter and storytelling patterns of Rae/Ghost minus the slang.

I think Bmore hit the nail on the head saying Nas realised he wasn't getting any recognition for Illmatic (relative to his peers) and so he went for the approach that was hot (that street/mafioso/drug rap). Problem is...OB4CL coming out a year earlier and being literally a flawless piece of work in the subgenre meant that Nas had a huge amount to live up to...and failed...not only in failure to match OB4CL for quality but also to live up to Illmatic as a piece of work.

IWW is a great album, I'm not denying that. But worse than Illmatic.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

his voice on IWW sounds better than on Illmatic?

I think he was more polished. He was raw af on Illmatic but that's one of the reasons we loved it

 

[Big Mel]

No offense but it's mainly white boys like u who hate IWW so much. I guess Nas' own brother shouldn't be taken seriously either right? He was there for both recording processes. He likes IWW more. I had Illmatic cassette on release. I like Illmatic more but that's cause the album is flawless to me. Not cause IWW is wack.

You have data to back that cac stuff? Because usually when your album sales triple it indicates you cracked the cac code.

And Jingle is not someone whose rap taste id lend much credence to. But hey, that's just the sane human in me. Do you think he likes his own album too?

 

[spliz]

I didn't say biting anyone. I said his rhyme style changed in tune with the kinda styles employed by Jay and Rae/Ghost. It was a fusion of sorts. The lyrical spectrum and clarity of Jay mixed with the subject matter and storytelling patterns of Rae/Ghost minus the slang.

I think Bmore hit the nail on the head saying Nas realised he wasn't getting any recognition for Illmatic (relative to his peers) and so he went for the approach that was hot (that street/mafioso/drug rap). Problem is...OB4CL coming out a year earlier and being literally a flawless piece of work in the subgenre meant that Nas had a huge amount to live up to...and failed...not only in failure to match OB4CL for quality but also to live up to Illmatic as a piece of work.

IWW is a great album, I'm not denying that. But worse than Illmatic.

I don't think u can credit Jay for ANY of that tho. That's what I'm sayin. I would accept Rae/Ghost but Jay ain't have shyt to do with nothin at all imo. Nas was already on it before Jay bubbled enough to have influenced anything.

 

[Kitsune]

sorry, but I cant listen to Nas past Illmatic, he makes generic sounding rap music, even illmatic is genric but it still sounds good for some reason

 

[SirBiatch]

I think he was more polished. He was raw af on Illmatic but that's one of the reasons we loved it

this is one of the reasons why I think Lost Tapes is easily Nas's 2nd best release. It's got the feel/heart of Illmatic but more polished.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

I don't think u can credit Jay for ANY of that tho. That's what I'm sayin. I would accept Rae/Ghost but Jay ain't have shyt to do with nothin at all imo. Nas was already on it before Jay bubbled enough to have influenced anything.

yeah that's fair

I wonder how much he was influenced by G Rap's Live & Let Die given that album kick-started the subgenre and G Rap was stylistically the biggest influence on Nas' rap style that we associate him with generally

 

[spliz]

You have data to back that cac stuff? Because usually when your album sales triple it indicates you cracked the cac code.

And Jingle is not someone whose rap taste id lend much credence to. But hey, that's just the sane human in me. Do you think he likes his own album too?

Nah. didn't call u a cac. I said white boys like u tend to hate IWW. Not just white fans in general but white "hip hop heads". Tend to LOATH Nas after Illmatic. Not just yall tho. What I will say is when I see shyt like that it let's me know that yall ain't Nas fans. Yall Illmatic fans.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

this is one of the reasons why I think Lost Tapes is easily Nas's 2nd best release. It's got the feel/heart of Illmatic but more polished.

And the fact that Lost Tapes had a lot of material left off I Am is telling. Since he was able to release it later under the same label means he prolly scrapped them on his own than used them later to fulfill his contract to Columbia

 

[Big Mel]

Nah. didn't call u a cac. I said white boys like u tend to hate IWW. Not just white fans in general but white "hip hop heads". Tend to LOATH Nas after Illmatic. Not just yall tho. What I will say is when I see shyt like that it let's me know that yall ain't Nas fans. Yall Illmatic fans.

Or we just refuse to compromise our standards and tastes for some loser rapper who sold out and made tons of indefensible music.

But we've been down this road before and I've got a tremendous night of basketball watching to prep for.

 

[spliz]

yeah that's fair

I wonder how much he was influenced by G Rap's Live & Let Die given that album kick-started the subgenre and G Rap was stylistically the biggest influence on Nas' rap style that we associate him with generally

All of em was influenced by G Rap but check it. Nas was the only one directly linked to G Rap who was doin it so I always felt it was unfair to target him and give everyone else a pass. G Rap helped Nas get his record deal. Nas was featured on G Rap's single in 95. Before IWW. Noone had a problem with none of it. nikkas shoulda known the direction IWW was going in considering all the features n everything he was doing the year prior. And still. I feel like IWW offered far more versatility than OBFCL etc etc. Not sayin it was better. Just sayin it wasn't some straight up bite. Didn't really even fully follow the footsteps. It was what Nas was turning into if nikkas was paying attention and didn't skip over the entire 95.

 

[spliz]

Or we just refuse to compromise our standards and tastes for some loser rapper who sold out and made tons of indefensible music.

But we've been down this road before and I've got a tremendous night of basketball watching to prep for.

Yep. Agree to disagree brotha.

 

[Broke Wave]

This is blasphemy

IWW has some faults:
- it tried to follow a precedent from OB4CL and was never able to live up to it
- one or two tracks could disappear from the tracklist no harm done e.g. Watch Dem nikkas & Nas is Coming

Illmatic is a near flawless piece of work.

But lyrically IWW was a vast improvement you can't deny that.

Illmatic >>> IWW any day.

Watch Dem nikkas is perhaps the best song on there