High on the Hog: A Culinary Journey from Africa to America

[IllmaticDelta]

Funny you mentioned this I was thinking about linking this in this thread.

I actually backed Dr. Conyers perspective on Gumbo in the comments lol.

So like I mentioned in the comments, I grew up on Gumbo just like he did. When my grandma made hers the base of it was Okra, corn, and tomatoes. Okra was the ONLY thickener, no roux or file whatsoever.

Mind you my grandma is from Mississippi and grew up back and forth between there and Louisiana. Now guess where her grandma’s folks were from? Coastal SC and GA.

This is why I’m adamant about explaining that it’s very difficult to paint AA culture and foodways over a broad brush. There’s A LOT of nuance that people either don’t know or don’t acknowledge enough.

exactly

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Okra cuisine comes from the Bight of Biafra. Even the word okra is Igbo

From what I understand the etymology of the word traces back to Igbo but the veg/dish (variations) was pan-african

 

[IllmaticDelta]

dp

 

[IllmaticDelta]

From what I understand the etymology of the word traces back to Igbo but the veg/dish (variations) was pan-african

 

[get these nets]

Funny you mentioned this I was thinking about linking this in this thread.

I actually backed Dr. Conyers perspective on Gumbo in the comments lol.

So like I mentioned in the comments, I grew up on Gumbo just like he did. When my grandma made hers the base of it was Okra, corn, and tomatoes. Okra was the ONLY thickener, no roux or file whatsoever.

Mind you my grandma is from Mississippi and grew up back and forth between there and Louisiana. Now guess where her grandma’s folks were from? Coastal SC and GA.

This is why I’m adamant about explaining that it’s very difficult to paint AA culture and foodways over a broad brush. There’s A LOT of nuance that people either don’t know or don’t acknowledge enough.

Your personal experience alligns with what was written by Mrs. Harris, and the other book about differences between Coastal SC/GA and New Orleans cuisine.

From High on the Hog (page 48)

Rich rice-based dishes like Hoppin’ John (the black-eyed peas and rice dish) and the emblematic Charleston red rice maintained strong
culinary connections to Senegambia; there, the former is called thiébou niébé, and the latter is similar
to Senegal’s national dish, thiébou dienn.
These and other rice dishes entered the Lowcountry culinary repertoire and made the transition
smoothly from West Africa to slave cabin to Big House kitchen. This transition was aided in no small
measure by the fact that many of the original settlers in the region boasted plantations in the Caribbean
as well, and there they may have already become acclimatized to a more African palate, with its taste
for the spicy and its use of rice and beans and okra and the like. Over time, the culinary omnivores
that were the South Carolina plantocracy came to claim African- inspired dishes like Hoppin’ John,
red rice, and roux-less Charleston gumbo as their own.

-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From American Regional Cuisine-Plantation South chapter

table 2.1 defining dishes the region

NAME:OKRA: SAUTÉED,
SIMMERED, OR
FRIED


HISTORY: West African slaves brought with them not
only the seeds of okra, but also its African
name, gombo, which has mutated into
gumbo, now the name of an entire group of
defining dishes found in both the Lowcountry
and Louisiana.

DOMINANT INGREDIENTS OR METHOD:
Okra thickens stews and gumbos; it is
served as a side dish sautéed in bacon
drippings or simmered in a fresh
tomato sauce and as an appetizer
or side dish when floured and
deep-fried.

OTHER: Pickled okra appears on Southern relish
trays.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You're familiar with the book and Mrs. Harris as one of the top authorities about African American foodways.

She created the Institute for the Study of Culinary Culture, when she was the original chair of the Dept. at Dillard set up by Ray Charles.
Both the program and the institute were the FIRST of their kind at any American university. Preserving and documenting history.

I know you're from the city, but if you still live there have you ever attended any of their events.

 

[get these nets]

@im_sleep

Gonna post the chapter of the American Regional Cuisine book about the Chesapeake region, and try to post the HOTH pages covering that area. Will leave the chapters and pages I've posted in this thread up for a few and then take them down.

 

[im_sleep]

Your personal experience alligns with what was written by Mrs. Harris, and the other book about differences between Coastal SC/GA and New Orleans cuisine.

From High on the Hog (page 48)

Rich rice-based dishes like Hoppin’ John (the black-eyed peas and rice dish) and the emblematic Charleston red rice maintained strong
culinary connections to Senegambia; there, the former is called thiébou niébé, and the latter is similar
to Senegal’s national dish, thiébou dienn.
These and other rice dishes entered the Lowcountry culinary repertoire and made the transition
smoothly from West Africa to slave cabin to Big House kitchen. This transition was aided in no small
measure by the fact that many of the original settlers in the region boasted plantations in the Caribbean
as well, and there they may have already become acclimatized to a more African palate, with its taste
for the spicy and its use of rice and beans and okra and the like. Over time, the culinary omnivores
that were the South Carolina plantocracy came to claim African- inspired dishes like Hoppin’ John,
red rice, and roux-less Charleston gumbo as their own.

-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From American Regional Cuisine-Plantation South chapter

table 2.1 defining dishes the region

NAME:OKRA: SAUTÉED,
SIMMERED, OR
FRIED


HISTORY: West African slaves brought with them not
only the seeds of okra, but also its African
name, gombo, which has mutated into
gumbo, now the name of an entire group of
defining dishes found in both the Lowcountry
and Louisiana.

DOMINANT INGREDIENTS OR METHOD:
Okra thickens stews and gumbos; it is
served as a side dish sautéed in bacon
drippings or simmered in a fresh
tomato sauce and as an appetizer
or side dish when floured and
deep-fried.

OTHER: Pickled okra appears on Southern relish
trays.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You're familiar with the book and Mrs. Harris as one of the top authorities about African American foodways.

She created the Institute for the Study of Culinary Culture, when she was the original chair of the Dept. at Dillard set up by Ray Charles.
Both the program and the institute were the FIRST of their kind at any American university. Preserving and documenting history.

I know you're from the city, but if you still live there have you ever attended any of their events.

Oh I’m not from New Orleans lol, so naw I wasn’t even aware of the program but I’d be down for all of that. I know Dr. Conyers just had that Gumbo Jubilee event down there with alot of we’ll known African American chefs, farmers, and foodwriters. I would of been in heaven.

@im_sleep

Gonna post the chapter of the American Regional Cuisine book about the Chesapeake region, and try to post the HOTH pages covering that area. Will leave the chapters and pages I've posted in this thread up for a few and then take them down.

Looking forward to seeing that, IMO the Chesapeake is the foundation of it all, I actually think it gets a little slept on for that very reason. I’m gonna re-read HOTH as its been awhile, haven’t read it in about 6 years. Have you read Michael Twitty’s book The Cooking Gene?

 

[get these nets]

Oh I’m not from New Orleans lol, so naw I wasn’t even aware of the program but I’d be down for all of that. I know Dr. Conyers just had that Gumbo Jubilee event down there with alot of we’ll known African American chefs, farmers, and foodwriters. I would of been in heaven.





Looking forward to seeing that, IMO the Chesapeake is the foundation of it all, I actually think it gets a little slept on for that very reason. I’m gonna re-read HOTH as its been awhile, haven’t read it in about 6 years. Have you read Michael Twitty’s book The Cooking Gene?

All this time I thought you lived in New Orleans. I'm familiar with Dr. Conyers and Mr. Twitty from podcast covering them.

I'm more familiar with F.D. Opie's work....in fact since I couldn't find a direct passage about the Chesapeake foodways in HOTH, I decided to post an excerpt from Opie's book , Hog and Hominy






==========================================================
posting the American Regional Cuisine chapter on Chesapeake in next post

 

[get these nets]

 

[get these nets]

Harris mentioned this writer in the end notes to HOTH. Here is her chapter from a book about food history, it's about the African fauna and flora that arrived in the Americas. It expands on the mentioning of the West African plants in the regional American cuisine book.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I think Roux is one of the key things that separates NO from the Carolinas when it comes to cuisine. That said it aint really that big of a deal that regionally everyone puts their spin on the same concepts. This what ties into people bragging about being the best at something

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I think Roux is one of the key things that separates NO from the Carolinas when it comes to cuisine. That said it aint really that big of a deal that regionally everyone puts their spin on the same concepts. This what ties into people bragging about being the best at something

The Roux part comes from the French, this is also why there is a debate/riff where Cajuns are saying THEY invented LA Gumbo and some of those cajun chefs being looking at the LA Creole cooks claim of roux-based, Gumbo like They have even gone as far to say it's myth that a dish without Okra, isn't Gumbo. Carolina/Low Country Gumbo is closer to it's African source.

 

[HarlemHottie]

I’m gonna re-read HOTH as its been awhile, haven’t read it in about 6 years. Have you read Michael Twitty’s book The Cooking Gene?

Me too, one of my faves.

I just found out abut Michael Twitty. He was a guest on a yt channel I recently started following.

 

[get these nets]

South Florida and Puerto Rico

 

[TNOT]

The Roux part comes from the French, this is also why there is a debate/riff where Cajuns are saying THEY invented LA Gumbo and some of those cajun chefs being looking at the LA Creole cooks claim of roux-based, Gumbo like They have even gone as far to say it's myth that a dish without Okra, isn't Gumbo. Carolina/Low Country Gumbo is closer to it's African source.

This is true.

But I can’t say what side is right.
Growing up Cajun gumbo is usually Chicken, Sausage/Andouille and seafood no Okra.

We grew our on Okra so I love it, I eat it raw. My mom made a chicken and sausage no okra/ and a strictly seafood gumbo with crabs and shrimp with okra. Interesting enough she does not use tomatoes in the okra gumbo, she prefers the slime to meld with the roux, she also chops up the okra small. However when she smothers Okra she uses tomatoes to soak up the slime from the okra.