Greece financial crisis | Latest : Deal reached with even tougher conditions for Greece.

CHL

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Crowdfunding Greece's debt
  • 5 hours ago
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€100: a 2.7 billionth of Greece's overall debt
Months of negotiations have failed to produce an agreement on Greece's massive €271 billion (£193bn; $303bn) debt.

To satisfy its creditors, the country needs to produce €1.6 billion by the end of Tuesday.

It's a big ask.

The world wide web has thrown up all sorts of unconventional strategies for keeping the country afloat, including the idea that Apple step in and buy it.

Apple's €217 billion cash hoard could put a pretty large dent in Greece's debt, but the tech giant is not in the market for a country, said CEO Tim Cook.

Step in plucky Londoner Thom Feeney, who set up a crowdfunding page asking all of Europe to have a look down the back of the sofa.

"The European Union is home to 503 million people, if we all just chip in a few euro then we can get Greece sorted and hopefully get them back on track soon. Easy."

Easy? Well, in theory, if everyone in the EU, minus the population of Greece, donated €3.25, it would cover Tuesday's payment.

To pay off Greece's debt in full? Everyone in the EU would need to donate €550.

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There are incentives though. A €3 donation will get you a postcard of Alexis Tsipras, apparently.

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At the other end of the scale, a €1 million donation wins you the eternal gratitude of the Greek people.

(It was not certain whether Mr Feeny was in a position to deliver these prizes.)

It's a nice thought, but unlikely to be a magic debt bullet. At the time of writing, €18,577 has been donated in a day, by 1,326 charity-minded people.

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At that rate, it would take another 236 years to meet Tuesday's repayment, and 40,000 years to pay off Greece's overall debt.

"It might be a short while," Mr Feeney admits.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33326534


So it's really come to this?
Why I set up the Greek bailout crowdfund
As the total heads towards a million euros, I am proud of the donors from around the world. This campaign is by the people, for the people

You know when you just have a little idea, have a laugh to yourself and then move on with your day? I do that a lot, only on Sunday night, I didn’t let it pass but decided to try it out for real.

I wondered, could the people of Europe have a crack at fixing this? Less talk, more direct action

So, sat at the table after dinner, I started a crowdfunding campaign to try to rescue the Greek economy. Some basic maths told me that I only needed the entire population of Europe to donate €3.19 (£2.26) to reach the amount of the bailout fund. I included some nice perks for donating, including a Greek salad and holiday in Athens for two, and set up a page on IndieGoGo and a Twitter account.

Nobody was that interested at first, but after a couple of small stories on the internet, the idea seemed to explode overnight. I woke up to 1,200 emails and it got even more crazy from there.

I set up the crowdfunding campaign to support the Greek bailout because I was fed up with the dithering of our politicians. Every time a solution to bail out Greece is delayed, it’s a chance for politicians to posture and display their power, but during this time the real effect is on the people of Greece.

I wondered, could the people of Europe just have a crack at fixing this? Less talk, more direct action. If we want to sort it, let’s JFDI (just effing do it)! On Tuesday, between leaving for work and returning home, the crowdfunding page had raised over €200,000 in around six hours, which was incredible. This isn’t just about raising the cash, though. In providing the perks, we would be stimulating the Greek economy through trade – buying Greek products and employing Greeks to source and send the perks out.

The way to help a struggling economy is by investment and stimulus – not austerity and cuts. This crowdfunding is a reaction to the bullying of the Greek people by European politicians, but it could easily be about British politicians bullying the people of the north of England, Scotland and Wales. I want the people of Europe to realise that there is another option to austerity, despite what David Cameron and Angela Merkel tell you.

The reaction has been tremendous, I’ve received thousands of goodwill message and as I write almost €630,000 has been pledged by more than 38,000 donors. Many Greek people are messaging me to say how overjoyed they are to hear that real people around Europe care about them. It must be hard when you think the rest of the continent is against you.

The beauty of the internet and social media means that a campaign like this can become possible by word-of-mouth and people all across the world can get involved very quickly. The chance to use a crowdfunding site for social good is really exciting and I hope that others will follow my lead in future and start or get behind projects like this. Of course I would prefer that we had governments that listened and connected with the public, but I guess that getting people involved at a grassroots level might be the next best thing.

While I thought the campaign was near impossible when I started, I’ve since downgraded that to merely “improbable”. I sincerely hope that in the coming weeks I, and hundreds of Greeks, will be employed in wrapping bottles of ouzo and sending postcards of Alexis Tsipras out to people who have donated. The infrastructure required to do that alone would be quite something. But just think of the party!

Ultimately, I’m very proud of the people – not just from the UK, Greece or Europe but those from all over the world – who have got involved with this campaign. It truly is by the people, for the people.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ek-bailout-crowdfund-politicians-euros-people
 

CHL

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Joseph Stiglitz: how I would vote in the Greek referendum

The rising crescendo of bickering and acrimony within Europe might seem to outsiders to be the inevitable result of the bitter endgame playing out between Greece and its creditors. In fact, European leaders are finally beginning to reveal the true nature of the ongoing debt dispute, and the answer is not pleasant: it is about power and democracy much more than money and economics.

Of course, the economics behind the programme that the “troika” (the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund) foisted on Greece five years ago has been abysmal, resulting in a 25% decline in the country’s GDP. I can think of no depression, ever, that has been so deliberate and had such catastrophic consequences: Greece’s rate of youth unemployment, for example, now exceeds 60%.

It is startling that the troika has refused to accept responsibility for any of this or admit how bad its forecasts and models have been. But what is even more surprising is that Europe’s leaders have not even learned. The troika is still demanding that Greece achieve a primary budget surplus (excluding interest payments) of 3.5% of GDP by 2018.

Economists around the world have condemned that target as punitive, because aiming for it will inevitably result in a deeper downturn. Indeed, even if Greece’s debt is restructured beyond anything imaginable, the country will remain in depression if voters there commit to the troika’s target in the snap referendum to be held this weekend.

In terms of transforming a large primary deficit into a surplus, few countries have accomplished anything like what the Greeks have achieved in the last five years. And, though the cost in terms of human suffering has been extremely high, the Greek government’s recent proposals went a long way toward meeting its creditors’ demands.

We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems. The IMF and the other “official” creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece.

But, again, it’s not about the money. It’s about using “deadlines” to force Greece to knuckle under, and to accept the unacceptable – not only austerity measures, but other regressive and punitive policies.

But why would Europe do this? Why are European Union leaders resisting the referendum and refusing even to extend by a few days the June 30 deadline for Greece’s next payment to the IMF? Isn’t Europe all about democracy?

In January, Greece’s citizens voted for a government committed to ending austerity. If the government were simply fulfilling its campaign promises, it would already have rejected the proposal. But it wanted to give Greeks a chance to weigh in on this issue, so critical for their country’s future wellbeing.

That concern for popular legitimacy is incompatible with the politics of the eurozone, which was never a very democratic project. Most of its members’ governments did not seek their people’s approval to turn over their monetary sovereignty to the ECB. When Sweden’s did, Swedes said no. They understood that unemployment would rise if the country’s monetary policy were set by a central bank that focused single-mindedly on inflation (and also that there would be insufficient attention to financial stability). The economy would suffer, because the economic model underlying the eurozone was predicated on power relationships that disadvantaged workers.

And, sure enough, what we are seeing now, 16 years after the eurozone institutionalised those relationships, is the antithesis of democracy: many European leaders want to see the end of prime minister Alexis Tsipras’ leftist government. After all, it is extremely inconvenient to have in Greece a government that is so opposed to the types of policies that have done so much to increase inequality in so many advanced countries, and that is so committed to curbing the unbridled power of wealth. They seem to believe that they can eventually bring down the Greek government by bullying it into accepting an agreement that contravenes its mandate.

It is hard to advise Greeks how to vote on 5 July. Neither alternative – approval or rejection of the troika’s terms – will be easy, and both carry huge risks. A yes vote would mean depression almost without end. Perhaps a depleted country – one that has sold off all of its assets, and whose bright young people have emigrated – might finally get debt forgiveness; perhaps, having shrivelled into a middle-income economy, Greece might finally be able to get assistance from the World Bank. All of this might happen in the next decade, or perhaps in the decade after that.

By contrast, a no vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.

I know how I would vote.

Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics, is University Professor at Columbia University. His most recent book, co-authored with Bruce Greenwald, is Creating a Learning Society: A New Approach to Growth, Development, and Social Progress.
Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2015.
 

CHL

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Greece Over the Brink

It has been obvious for some time that the creation of the euro was a terrible mistake. Europe never had the preconditions for a successful single currency — above all, the kind of fiscal and banking union that, for example, ensures that when a housing bubble in Florida bursts, Washington automatically protects seniors against any threat to their medical care or their bank deposits.

Leaving a currency union is, however, a much harder and more frightening decision than never entering in the first place, and until now even the Continent’s most troubled economies have repeatedly stepped back from the brink. Again and again, governments have submitted to creditors’ demands for harsh austerity, while the European Central Bank has managed to contain market panic.

But the situation in Greece has now reached what looks like a point of no return. Banks are temporarily closed and the government has imposed capital controls — limits on the movement of funds out of the country. It seems highly likely that the government will soon have to start paying pensions and wages in scrip, in effect creating a parallel currency. And next week the country will hold a referendum on whether to accept the demands of the “troika” — the institutions representing creditor interests — for yet more austerity.

Greece should vote “no,” and the Greek government should be ready, if necessary, to leave the euro.

To understand why I say this, you need to realize that most — not all, but most — of what you’ve heard about Greek profligacy and irresponsibility is false. Yes, the Greek government was spending beyond its means in the late 2000s. But since then it has repeatedly slashed spending and raised taxes. Government employment has fallen more than 25 percent, and pensions (which were indeed much too generous) have been cut sharply. If you add up all the austerity measures, they have been more than enough to eliminate the original deficit and turn it into a large surplus.

So why didn’t this happen? Because the Greek economy collapsed, largely as a result of those very austerity measures, dragging revenues down with it.

And this collapse, in turn, had a lot to do with the euro, which trapped Greece in an economic straitjacket. Cases of successful austerity, in which countries rein in deficits without bringing on a depression, typically involve large currency devaluations that make their exports more competitive. This is what happened, for example, in Canada in the 1990s, and to an important extent it’s what happened in Iceland more recently. But Greece, without its own currency, didn’t have that option.

So have I just made the case for “Grexit” — Greek exit from the euro? Not necessarily. The problem with Grexit has always been the risk of financial chaos, of a banking system disrupted by panicked withdrawals and of business hobbled both by banking troubles and by uncertainty over the legal status of debts. That’s why successive Greek governments have acceded to austerity demands, and why even Syriza, the ruling leftist coalition, was willing to accept the austerity that has already been imposed. All it asked for was, in effect, a standstill on further austerity.

This is, and presumably was intended to be, an offer Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister, can’t accept, because it would destroy his political reason for being. The purpose must therefore be to drive him from office, which will probably happen if Greek voters fear confrontation with the troika enough to vote yes next week.

But they shouldn’t, for three reasons. First, we now know that ever-harsher austerity is a dead end: after five years Greece is in worse shape than ever. Second, much and perhaps most of the feared chaos from Grexit has already happened. With banks closed and capital controls imposed, there’s not that much more damage to be done.

Finally, acceding to the troika’s ultimatum would represent the final abandonment of any pretense of Greek independence. Don’t be taken in by claims that troika officials are just technocrats explaining to the ignorant Greeks what must be done. These supposed technocrats are in fact fantasists who have disregarded everything we know about macroeconomics, and have been wrong every step of the way. This isn’t about analysis, it’s about power — the power of the creditors to pull the plug on the Greek economy, which persists as long as euro exit is considered unthinkable.

So it’s time to put an end to this unthinkability. Otherwise Greece will face endless austerity, and a depression with no hint of an end.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/opinion/paul-krugman-greece-over-the-brink.html?_r=0
 
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Turbulent

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history has thought us that whenever there is an economic crisis, it is often fertile soil for investing opportunity.

does anyone see any financial opportunity being born out of this as far as the stockmarket?
 

Domingo Halliburton

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history has thought us that whenever there is an economic crisis, it is often fertile soil for investing opportunity.

does anyone see any financial opportunity being born out of this as far as the stockmarket?

maybe in a couple years. if they exit the Euro the Drachma will devalue hard. So you'd have to hedge against that.
 

88m3

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Domingo Halliburton

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I'm hearing rumors that Greek banks are dead and could possibly not open at all in July.

Also other rumor (maybe not rumor probably a pretty educated guess) that haircut on deposits is all but certain regardless of outcome of the vote.

One more, more conspiratorial, Eurogroup wants a Yes vote in the referendum so that Tsipras resigns and they put in their own puppet government.
 
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CHL

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/03/greek-referendum-what-the-experts-say

Greek referendum: how would top economists vote?
The Greek government is urging a no vote in Sunday’s bailout referendum. Eurozone leaders say vote yes



A demonstrator wears ‘oxi’ (no) stickers during an anti-austerity rally in Athens. Photograph: Yannis Behrakis/Reuters
Katie Allen

Saturday 4 July 2015 04.22 AESTLast modified on Saturday 4 July 2015 05.16 AEST

Greeks go to the polls on Sunday to vote on whether to acceptthe bailout programme proposed by international lenders that would restart financial aid in exchange for further austerity and economic reform.

The government is urging people to vote no, with the finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, saying it is time to end years of rolling over Greece’s bailouts and “pretending” its debts can be repaid.

But Eurozone leaders have insisted that if Greece votes no, it will be saying goodbye to the euro. Two former Greek prime ministers, Kostas Karamanlis and Antonis Samaras, both of the centre-right New Democracy party, are urging a yes vote, saying that a return to the drachma would kill the Greek economy.

So how do top economists say they would vote - and why?

Joseph Stiglitz - NO
Nobel laureate in economics and professor at Columbia University

Stiglitz has decried the economics behind the international creditors’ programme for Greece as “abysmal”. “I can think of no depression, ever, that has been so deliberate and had such catastrophic consequences,” he wrote this week.

He says it is hard to advise Greeks how to vote on 5 July, given both options carry “huge risks”. But it is clear the Nobel laureate himself would vote no:

A no vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.

Paul Krugman - NO
Nobel prize-winning US economist

“I would vote no, for two reasons,” Krugman wrote in the New York Times.

Firstly, thinks Krugman, the troika of international lenders – the entity consisting of the European commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund – is effectively demanding that the policy regime of the past five years be continued indefinitely: “Where is the hope in that?”

Secondly, the political implications of a yes vote would be “deeply troubling”, he says.

The troika clearly did a reverse Corleone – they made Tsipras an offer he can’t accept, and presumably did this knowingly. So the ultimatum was, in effect, a move to replace the Greek government. And even if you don’t like Syriza, that has to be disturbing for anyone who believes in European ideals.

Thomas Piketty - NO
Professor at the Paris School of Economics and author of Capital in the Twenty-First Century

Piketty has joined other economists in calling for Greece’s heavy debt burden to be restructured and says Greeks should vote no. In an interview with the French broadcaster BFMTV he described the deal proposed by creditors as “bad”. He also warned that expelling Greece from Europe would push it into the arms of Russia.

It’s a complicated choice. The question being asked is whether the plan from the creditors is good or not. If that is the question being asked, the answer for me is clear: it is a bad plan.

Jeffrey Sachs - NO
Director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University and author of The Price of Civilization

Sachs sees a way out of the crisis if Greece’s debt burden is eased while keeping the country in the eurozone. For that to happen Greece and Germany need to come to a “rapprochement” soon after the referendum and agree to a package of economic reforms and debt relief, he wrote on Project Syndicate. But first Greeks must vote against international creditors’ proposals .

I recommend that the Greek people give a resounding “No” to the creditors in the referendum on their demands this weekend.

Christopher Pissarides - YES
British-Cypriot economist and Nobel laureate

Pissarides says the austerity forced on Greece has been detrimental and is probably “the biggest factor behind its very high and long-lasting unemployment rates”. But he does not believe voting no on Sunday is the answer.

“A yes vote is still the best option, by a long shot,” he wrote on the Guardian website.

The way forward is to reform from within, not by running away from the problem. There are already signs that sentiments are changing ... With patience other changes will follow. It is clear to most politicians in Europe that austerity is dividing the continent and damaging the European project. Reforms will follow. Greece has a role to play in this agenda but only if it stays within the eurozone.

Vicky Pryce - YES
Chief economic adviser at the Centre for Economic and Business Research

Pryce believes both sides are equally to blame in letting the Greek debt crisis get to a point now fraught with immense political and economic risks for the entire eurozone. “The referendum should never have been held. But I would vote yes,” she says.

There has been too much austerity but a no vote would make things worse. It would almost certainly mean banks becoming insolvent, an exit from the euro and a much faster decline in economic activity, with hyperinflation following as the drachma that is introduced instantly devalues.

A yes vote would keep banks open and give mandate for a deal to be struck that recognises the new Greek realities and includes, as the IMF now says, restructuring of the debt which every economist knows is unsustainable.

Professors of economics at Greek universities - YES
In an open letter, 246 professors at economics schools and universities in Greece urged people to vote yes on Sunday or risk leaving the EU.

Taking into account that the proposals of our creditors and the Greek government were converging until last Friday, we believe that what is really at stake in the coming referendum, irrespective of the precise formulation of the question, is whether Greece will remain, or not, in the eurozone and, possibly, whether it will remain in the EU itself...

Leaving the eurozone, especially in this chaotic and superficial way, would likely lead to a process of leaving the EU too, with unpredictable and disastrous consequences for the national security and the democratic stability of our country.
 

mbewane

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http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-...he-truth-finally-emerges?mbid=social_facebook

Just when you thought that the Greece saga had run out of plot twists, another one emerged on Thursday—and it was an important one. A few days before a referendum that will probably decide the fate of Greece’s Syriza government, one of the country’s creditors, the International Monetary Fund, came out and acknowledged that the stricken country is unlikely to recover until a good portion of its huge debt load is wiped out.

Echoing the argument that Yanis Varoufakis, Greece’s controversial finance minister, has been making for months, the I.M.F. published an internal analysis that described Greece’s debt dynamics as “unsustainable.” At a minimum, the analysis said, the maturity dates of Greece’s loans, which total more than three hundred billion euros, “will need to be extended significantly.” And if Greece doesn’t push through all of the structural and fiscal reforms that the Fund believes are necessary, “haircuts on debt will become necessary.” (A “haircut” is the financial term for reducing the face value of outstanding debt. If you owned a $1,000 bond and it was subjected to a haircut of ten per cent, it would entitle you to collect just $900 when it became due.)

I should stress that these conclusions weren’t based on the assumption that Syriza, or any future Greek government, would fail to carry through the policy reforms that its creditors are calling for, which include a relaxation of labor laws and a cut in pensions. To the contrary, the I.M.F’s analysis assumes that Greece accepts and meets the terms of the latest offer from its creditors, which the Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, rejected last weekend. This deal would involve the Greek government running a primary budget surplus of one per cent of G.D.P. this year, two per cent in 2016, three per cent in 2017, and 3.5 per cent thereafter. Even if this were to happen, and the Greek economy were to expand at a rate of 1.5 per cent annually, a fifty-per-cent improvement on its historical trend, Greece’s debts are so large that “further concessions are necessary for debt sustainability,” the report says.

One option the report considers involves extending the terms of Greece’s loans from twenty years to forty years, and doubling, from ten to twenty years, the grace period during which it doesn’t have to make any principal repayments. This, in itself, would amount to a significant hit to creditors. But what if the best Greece can manage over the long haul is to run a primary surplus of 2.5 per cent (rather than the 3.5 per cent called for in the latest offer), which seems a bit more realistic—and the economy grows in line with the historical trend? Then, the report concludes, in addition to doubling the grace period for principal repayments and extending the maturities on Greece’s loans, the country’s creditors would have to write off more than fifty billion euros’ worth of debts.

To be sure, the I.M.F. report didn’t spare Varoufakis and his colleagues from criticism. Indeed, it said that if the Greek government had carried out all of the policies that the country’s creditors were demanding, “no further debt relief would have been needed.” Last year, the report notes, things were going pretty well. But in recent months there has been a “substantial weakening in the delivery of structural reforms,” which has undermined hopes for stronger economic growth, “leading to substantial new financing needs.”

That last bit is certainly true. Since the start of 2015, Greece’s economy has fallen back into recession, reducing tax revenues and increasing the budget deficit. The Syriza government, having dragged out the bailout negotiations for months and generated a great deal of uncertainty, bears a good deal of responsibility for this downturn. But to suggest that Syriza is to blame for Greece’s debt load being unsustainable is silly, and many people inside the I.M.F. know it.

As long ago as 2010, when Greece was first bailed out, many knowledgeable observers, including some members of the I.M.F.’s board of directors, worried that Greece would never be able to pay back all of its debts—its total debt burden is about a hundred and seventy five per cent of the country’s G.D.P.—and advocated imposing a haircut on its creditors. Rather than doing this, the European Union, the European Central Bank, and the I.M.F. loaned the Greek government money to pay its creditors, which were mostly European banks, at a hundred cents on the dollar. In the now-famous words of Karl Otto Pöhl, a former head of the Bundesbank, the bailout “was about protecting German banks, but especially the French banks, from debt write-offs.”

Even Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, reportedly acknowledged several years ago that Greece’s debt burden was overwhelming. On Wednesday, WikiLeaks released notes written by the U.S. National Security Agency on a 2011 conversation between Merkel and a personal assistant, which was recorded by the N.S.A. At the time, Greece’s European partners were discussing a possible haircut for private investors who owned Greek bonds. (This proposal did become part of a second bailout, in 2012, but it didn’t apply to Greek debt held by foreign governments and government agencies.) “Merkel’s fear was that Athens would be unable to overcome its problems even with an additional haircut, since it would not be able to handle the remaining debt,” the leaked document said.

Tsipras seized upon the report, describing it as “a great vindication for the Greek government as it confirms the obvious — that Greek debt is not sustainable.” That is true.* But the report also warns that six months of arguing and brinksmanship has left the Greek economy in urgent need of more credit—more than fifty billion euros between now and 2018, of which about thirty-six billion euros will have to come from Greece’s European partners.

That, in turn, leaves Greek voters facing a dilemma. Tsipras argues that a “No” vote on the question of whether to accept the creditors’ latest offer would strengthen his hand in negotiations to secure a new bailout. Many European leaders have made it clear that they would like to see Tsipras gone, and they have suggested that a “No” vote would force Greece to leave the euro zone, something that most Greeks don’t want. Should the voters back a government that can’t say when the country’s banks will re-open? Or should they buckle under to E.U. diktat? It’s not an appealing choice.

We’ll have to wait a few days to see which way the referendum goes. But we now have some clarity on the larger picture. Greece isn’t going to cut, or reform, or grow it’s way to debt sustainability. Either it will default on virtually all of its loans and adopt a new currency, or it will need debt forgiveness of the sort that Germany enjoyed after the Second World War, when more than half of its loans were written off. That’s the reality.
 
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