GOP Rep. Has No Answer For Why Republicans Won’t Vote For Middle-Class Tax Cuts

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

MFers went church mouse

 

[CrimsonTider]

How do you think not addressing the deficit will aid in that legacy? Because by taking middle class entitlements & tax deductions/hikes off the table that is pretty much what you are doing

Theres a growing number of people who are convinced they "cant afford to pay taxes". Half the country doesn't pay federal income taxes and effective rates for everyone but the top 20% are steadily dropping, while expenditures grow and become more untouchable. How do you suggest we fix this problem?

Why are you worried about a deficit during a recession?

 

[Slystallion]

Last I checked GOP was ok for now with rates expiring for 250k and up but wants to keep the same rates for everyone else and cut spending and take some deductions away

Obama's plan doesn't want to cut any spending just raise taxes on 250k margins

My guess GOP folds and let's Obamas plan pass since regardless if taxes go up republicans will be blamed because thats how media will portray it

I've been said let this dude pass what he wants when it doesn't work it will be easier to get a sensible person to win presidency and reverse the damage

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Why are you worried about a deficit during a recession?

One because we have to spend money to service that debt which could be used for more useful things

Two because the more debt we have, the weaker our fiscal position and opportunity to take on more debt. Say we have another crash like we did in 2008. We have zero room to take on the mountains of debt we did back then another time

Three because the threat of default has become real

Four because govt spending accounts for ~25% of economic activity

Do I need to go on????

 

[CrimsonTider]

One because we have to spend money to service that debt which could be used for more useful things

Two because the more debt we have, the weaker our fiscal position and opportunity to take on more debt. Say we have another crash like we did in 2008. We have zero room to take on the mountains of debt we did back then another time

Three because the threat of default has become real

Four because govt spending accounts for ~25% of economic activity

Do I need to go on????

I didn't say the deficit was a problem, but trying to fix it during a recession is counter productive

 

[Brown_Pride]

I didn't say the deficit was a problem, but trying to fix it during a recession is counter productive

it's best explained when you liken it to your personal finances.
You just got laid off, you have a family but reduced income.

Do you first worry about feeding your kids and keeping a shelter over their head or do you worry about paying your student loans? If you have to choose one which do you focus on first?

Focusing on the student loans is what the GOP wants to do, fuk the kids.

 

[88m3]

it's best explained when you liken it to your personal finances.
You just got laid off, you have a family but reduced income.

Do you first worry about feeding your kids and keeping a shelter over their head or do you worry about paying your student loans? If you have to choose one which do you focus on first?

Focusing on the student loans is what the GOP wants to do, fuk the kids.

None of those are really an option.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

it's best explained when you liken it to your personal finances.
You just got laid off, you have a family but reduced income.

Do you first worry about feeding your kids and keeping a shelter over their head or do you worry about paying your student loans? If you have to choose one which do you focus on first?

Focusing on the student loans is what the GOP wants to do, fuk the kids.

Your kids cant eat if you default on your student loans and the govt starts garnishing your wages + tax returns either

This idea that the debt doesn't matter is ridiculous

 

[Brown_Pride]

Your kids cant eat if you default on your student loans and the govt starts garnishing your wages + tax returns either

This idea that the debt doesn't matter is ridiculous

didnt' say it doesn't matter, just that it's not and should not be a top priority.
Basically using the same scenario it'd be like your kid getting sick and you debating whether to buy medicine because the student loan is due.

The problem is that we've pushed the "debt" problem back for so long that now that we ACTUALLY NEED TO LEGITIMATELY PUSH IT BACK it looks like more of the same.

WHen times are good we need to REALLY discuss debt. Right now, let's get the baby some medicine.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

didnt' say it doesn't matter, just that it's not and should not be a top priority.
Basically using the same scenario it'd be like your kid getting sick and you debating whether to buy medicine because the student loan is due.

The problem is that we've pushed the "debt" problem back for so long that now that we ACTUALLY NEED TO LEGITIMATELY PUSH IT BACK it looks like more of the same.

WHen times are good we need to REALLY discuss debt. Right now, let's get the baby some medicine.

It matters enough to continually suggest tax hikes on the folks who have seen their taxes decrease the least over the last couple of decades, and pay the highest rates though

Not to mention the plight of the middle class can't be solved w/tax hikes. The tax code + deficit are totally related; the tax code and the decline of middle class prosperity are totally unrelated. I agree that we should get the middle class back on their feet before suggesting hikes; I disagree that we should hike taxes on ANYONE until the whole economy is moving again.

 

[88m3]

It matters enough to continually suggest tax hikes on the folks who have seen their taxes decrease the least over the last couple of decades, and pay the highest rates though

Not to mention the plight of the middle class can't be solved w/tax hikes. The tax code + deficit are totally related; the tax code and the decline of middle class prosperity are totally unrelated. I agree that we should get the middle class back on their feet before suggesting hikes; I disagree that we should hike taxes on ANYONE until the whole economy is moving again.

You're not going to get rid of the deficit without raising the taxes on the top earners. The tax increase isn't enough money to be felt by an individual or family in that income range. Run the numbers, its not like people will be taxed at 80%.

Something also needs to be done about corporate tax rates.

The economy isn't going to get 'rolling' unless something is done about the deficit.

You care so much about the deficit but aren't willing to come up with ways to reduce it.

 

[Brown_Pride]

You're not going to get rid of the deficit without raising the taxes on the top earners. The tax increase isn't enough money to be felt by an individual or family in that income range. Run the numbers, its not like people will be taxed at 80%.

Something also needs to be done about corporate tax rates.

The economy isn't going to get 'rolling' unless something is done about the deficit.

You care so much about the deficit but aren't willing to come up with ways to reduce it.

more or less. COrporate taxes are at a 10:1 ration with personal taxes. What's funny is the GOP wants to use the red herring of "entitlements" i've pointed it out time and again SS and medicare (+65yr olds) is NOT an issue.

They make up a good chunk of what we pay out; HOWEVER, we also bring in a good chunk of our income because of those two taxes (ss and medicare).

Spending really isn't an issue (*ducks for cover*) at least it's not the MAIN problem. The main problem is that the income side of the equation is just not enough. We need more money, letting taxes go back to what they WERE just makes sense. Personally, the middle would be fine even with the taxes going back.

This whole "cliff" thing is just silly to me IMHO.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

You're not going to get rid of the deficit without raising the taxes on the top earners. The tax increase isn't enough money to be felt by an individual or family in that income range. Run the numbers, its not like people will be taxed at 80%.

Why? Effective tax rates on top earners have been flat for the last 30+ years. In other words we are not in a deficit because the top earners aren't paying enough

Something also needs to be done about corporate tax rates.

Yea, like eliminate them. Make the stockholders pay the full brunt of corporate tax rates and get rid of all the preferential treatment... plus free up all the $$$$ being wasted on corporate lobbyists and accountants.

The economy isn't going to get 'rolling' unless something is done about the deficit.

The deficit is what is keeping the economy afloat Do you realize what will happen to GDP when we make the spending cuts we should have during boom times????

You care so much about the deficit but aren't willing to come up with ways to reduce it.

I have plenty of ways to deal with the deficit, nobody has asked me though. You guys are the ones setting up the roadblocks. We need to cut spending and raise taxes, but only in a way that affects 1% of the population, despite the other 99% being the cause and benefactors of the political changes that created the deficit in the first place

more or less. COrporate taxes are at a 10:1 ration with personal taxes. What's funny is the GOP wants to use the red herring of "entitlements" i've pointed it out time and again SS and medicare (+65yr olds) is NOT an issue.

Corporate taxes are a waste of time and money. They have amounted to a smaller piece of the revenue stream year after year, going from 6% of GDP in the 50s to well under 2% now. The more we push on that the more $$$ and political bargaining will be wasted to appease them. Put the full corporate tax burden on the shareholders and tax corporate dividend income as normal income, you will solve the corporate tax problem overnight, removing all the complication and preferential treatment out of the system and generate revenue

They make up a good chunk of what we pay out; HOWEVER, we also bring in a good chunk of our income because of those two taxes (ss and medicare).

Its not just MC, SS and welfare, its the hundreds of billions in lost revenue paid out in lower and middle class tax deductions... deductions you have claimed in the past that the middle class cannot do without

Spending really isn't an issue (*ducks for cover*) at least it's not the MAIN problem. The main problem is that the income side of the equation is just not enough. We need more money, letting taxes go back to what they WERE just makes sense. Personally, the middle would be fine even with the taxes going back.

You realize "letting taxes go back to where they were" = a regressive (but wholly necessary) tax hike, don't you?

Look at table 8 in this link for the different income groups in 2000 (aka "where taxes were" before Bush cut them) and 2009 (its only got more progressive since then)

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

Tax rates for the people you say cannot afford them dropped way more than those you claim aren't paying enough and need to be hiked

This whole "cliff" thing is just silly to me IMHO.

BEcause, and I mean no offense/malice by this, I'm pretty sure you don't know what tax rates people are actually paying now or how those rates have changed over time. Youve made a bunch of assumptions that run counter to facts

 

[Brown_Pride]

Why? Effective tax rates on top earners have been flat for the last 30+ years. In other words we are not in a deficit because the top earners aren't paying enough


Yea, like eliminate them. Make the stockholders pay the full brunt of corporate tax rates and get rid of all the preferential treatment... plus free up all the $$$$ being wasted on corporate lobbyists and accountants.


The deficit is what is keeping the economy afloat Do you realize what will happen to GDP when we make the spending cuts we should have during boom times????


I have plenty of ways to deal with the deficit, nobody has asked me though. You guys are the ones setting up the roadblocks. We need to cut spending and raise taxes, but only in a way that affects 1% of the population, despite the other 99% being the cause and benefactors of the political changes that created the deficit in the first place



Corporate taxes are a waste of time and money. They have amounted to a smaller piece of the revenue stream year after year, going from 6% of GDP in the 50s to well under 2% now. The more we push on that the more $$$ and political bargaining will be wasted to appease them. Put the full corporate tax burden on the shareholders and tax corporate dividend income as normal income, you will solve the corporate tax problem overnight, removing all the complication and preferential treatment out of the system and generate revenue


Its not just MC, SS and welfare, its the hundreds of billions in lost revenue paid out in lower and middle class tax deductions... deductions you have claimed in the past that the middle class cannot do without





You realize "letting taxes go back to where they were" = a regressive (but wholly necessary) tax hike, don't you?

Look at table 8 in this link for the different income groups in 2000 (aka "where taxes were" before Bush cut them) and 2009 (its only got more progressive since then)

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

Tax rates for the people you say cannot afford them dropped way more than those you claim aren't paying enough and need to be hiked



BEcause, and I mean no offense/malice by this, I'm pretty sure you don't know what tax rates people are actually paying now or how those rates have changed over time. Youve made a bunch of assumptions that run counter to facts

nah i know what the rate is which is why i said IMHO taxes going back to what they were is no big deal. In fact taxes going UP for everyone but the bottom is ok by me. We spend, we should expect to be taxed for it. I don't think WE can do without those breaks so calm down on that front.

I still believe the top 2% don't pay enough, and i've seen that table time and again, i just don't care. 30% of 1 million is more than enough to survive off of. Hell 30% of 250k still leaves you with MORE THAN ENOUGH to live comfortably on.

I've never given thought to having shareholders pay the taxes...interesting thought. Sorta does away with the whole "corporations have a right to xyz" thing though. If we did this i'd expect citizens united to be completely demolished otherwise you have a "voice" without a stake in the game...so to speak.

that 6% of GDP as been that way because of loopholes mainly, get away from those loopholes and we'll see what happens.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

When is it gonna stop

40%? 50%? 70%? You make $1M, $100K is "MORE THAN ENOUGH to live comfortably on", so why not a 90% tax?

Why not have the govt take everything above the median income... I mean they don't need that, right?