Goldman Sachs: Generative AI Can't Make Money

bnew

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I think the issue is
a) the energy cost is absurdly high. They’ve said that. I read Google’s energy use has gone up over 40% since 2019. Microsoft has jumped up crazy as well

b) generative AI isnt fixing any material issues like other tech has done.

c) no one wants it

I think AI has potential to help us but the people in charge of it are not interested in that because they have never been interested in that. Generative AI isn’t offering any real world solutions from where I’m sitting. :hubie:


yes energy use is climbing rapidly and now theres a resurgence of investment into various energy technologies and new infrastructure is being built or is the planning phase of being built because of it.

i don't know what material issues you have in mind but i'm pretty sure the end goal to developing this tech is to solve material issues.

point C contradicts point A since the high energy use is due to the high demand because people really want it.

generative AI is literally helping people take their their descriptive ideas and turn it into articles , books, art, video and working code. what's realer than that?

I don't know what you've been reading or watching to come to that conclusion but this tech is an absolute game changer. I use it everyday for damn near anything and i'm speaking solely about text generation.
 

88m3

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none of those things are static, battery technology and operating distance has been improving since electric cars became mainstream. battery swapping is a also a thing so we don't know what the future holds.

your assessment of the tech seems to based on the assumption that batteries will never improve and they'll always be as big as they are now. if EV batteries get cheaper or even smaller than the likelihood of insurers writing off EV cars in accidents as total losses diminishes.

I didn't say they were static but in the meantime we're burning through finite resources that aren't efficient... you have to see a problem with that

I'm not sure why you're trying to belittle me but no I don't think the batteries will always be as large as they are now lmao.


A lot of open ended assumptions and stars aligning for that to happen but yes that could happen someday


Children and resources being exploited in the developing world are a cost of doing business?
 

mastermind

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yes energy use is climbing rapidly and now theres a resurgence of investment into various energy technologies and new infrastructure is being built or is the planning phase of being built because of it.

i don't know what material issues you have in mind but i'm pretty sure the end goal to developing this tech is to solve material issues.

point C contradicts point A since the high energy use is due to the high demand because people really want it.
My goal isn’t to create a song with 2Pac’s voice about the 2024 presidential election.

I want AI to improve the quality of our lives like air conditioning did.

As for energy usage, cryptocurrency uses a high amount of energy. Is there a major demand for that?
 

bnew

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I didn't say they were static but in the meantime we're burning through finite resources that aren't efficient... you have to see a problem with that

I'm not sure why you're trying to belittle me but no I don't think the batteries will always be as large as they are now lmao.


A lot of open ended assumptions and stars aligning for that to happen but yes that could happen someday


Children and resources being exploited in the developing world are a cost of doing business?

I wasn't trying to belittle you, you worded your reason as if the techs current state and the level of required resources would remain unchanged putting to question it's viability.

yes I am assuming that battery tech will improve like it has every few years.

children shouldn't be in the mining business and consumers and regulators should be holding thoses responsible accountable.
 

Hood Critic

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I've been saying the same thing and brehs in our big AI/LLM thread essentially told me I was being short sighted.

Generative AI in it's current state is useful, and even amazing at times, to us because it augments us, we have not hit a threshold where it can effectively replace us. And I honestly feel that is farther away than people like to admit.
 

Macallik86

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I can't speak for @bnew, but personally, I do think there's often a correlation between the usage frequency/competency of the AI model used, and the belief in the future impact of AI. I will fully admit that there's also no one who believes in cryptocurrency more than it's investors as well, so I can see how it comes across like AI people are drinking the Kool-aid.

What I can say as someone who pays for Claude AI's 3.5 Sonnet is that a lot of critiques I hear in 2024 were definitely painfully obvious in 2022/2023, but relatively outdated as of the past few months. AI models are iterative products that are hard to gauge their improvements without actively engaging with the models or tracking LLM leaderboards like Vellum

Case in point, the chart below shows the difference across models with the 'free' ChatGPT 3.5 being the worst performer relative to those that have been more recently released.
mnC1iuj.png


I do think that energy usage is a huge deal that needs to be resolved. Personally, I plan on offloading most of my queries to a local LLM eventually to offset my contribution and protect my privacy generally. I also think that from an investment perspective, it is very expensive and large investors expecting a return in the near future might run out of runway financially.

I am still very very concerned about the future and how the technology will alter the next +20 years.
 
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bnew

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I voted False, and would have done so even if you'd said the end of 2025.

For sure stock prices of Big Tech firms will go up and down, and media will alternate btw positive and negative ... that is how these dynamical systems operate....

However, I don't think the GenAI bubble will ever burst, because I think the real super-high value applications of this tech will happen fast enough to avoid CEOs of Big Tech firms burning out on GenAI ...

I don't think this will be a matter of chatbot subscriptions catching on mega big time (though smartphone assistants will get smarter fast, and chatbots will get more and more functional etc.) ... it will be more centrally about back-end integration of GenAI into all sorts of other useful software and hardware applications.

This integration is happening now, all over the place. It's having hiccups, and is working better in some cases than others, etc. It is being a learning experience, and is requiring AI devs and application designers to figure out how to work around the very real and glaring shortcomings of LLMs. But it's happening nonetheless.

Separately from my AGI R&D, I'm involved in a host of AI application projects, including for instance 2 that are LLM-based but have not yet created launchable products due to RAG not working as envisioned/advertised. HOWEVER, we seem to be getting much better results using custom variants of GraphRAG combined with clever prompt engineering... even without (yet) introducing full-on neural-symbolic approaches using OpenCog Hyperon (which we will do in these projects next year).

I think similar stories are happening all around. LLMs are proving to not be magic and not be AGI, but they are nonetheless unprecedentedly powerful AI tools, and I believe the current influx of investment into them will be enough to get them over the line in many many different verticals in terms of building really really useful applications that make loads of $$ and improve loads of lives.

(Not to overlook the damage that is done by the exploitative way data has been gathered for training many large models, though, nor the damage that is done to the Ai field by so much talent being sucked into LLMs instead of other R&D areas, etc. These negative factors totally exist and we must counter them emphatically, but they don't obviate the positives.)

It took a while for the world to figure out how to integrate ML broadly into software and hardware applications. The learning curve is going to be significantly shorter for LLMs because as we get near Singularity, so many things are going faster !! ...

What will be really interesting though is, just as industry starts hitting its stride using LLMs on the back end of various amazing applications, we're going to come out with huge research breakthroughs on putting LLMs and other DNNs together with symbolic probabilistic reasoning and creative evolutionary learning ... in the OpenCog Hyperon project, running on ASI Alliance (inc. SingularityNET, HyperCycle, NuNet) back end ..... And the process of hype, confusion and integration will begin all over again -- but EVEN FASTER, I predict, for the neural-symbolic-evolutionary early-stage-AGI wave than what we'll see with LLMs...

The human world remains confusing, self-harming and needlessly demented in many ways... but we are getting a lot of thing right nonetheless ... and the Singularity is Near ...
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