King Kreole

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You're right that the GOP's rot is homegrown, and Trump-ism is a natural extension of decades of right-wing ideology, but dismissing Russian influence entirely is just as much "cope" as the Resistance Libs you're criticizing. The GOP wasn't always blind to Russia. They were staunchly opposed to Moscow before Trump too office, which was in line with decades of Cold War and post-Cold War Republican orthodoxy. But Trump reshaped the party, downplayed Russian threats, adopted policies more conciliatory towards them, and even removed language from the GOP platform that supported Ukraine.

Trump didn't need to be a secret agent for his actions to align with Putin's interests. He openly admired authoritarian strongmen, repeatedly tried to weaken NATO, and parroted Kremlin talking points on Ukraine and on Europe. His realignment of US foreign policy wasn't just ideological, it directly benefited Russia in ways that even traditional Republican hawks found alarming. Yes, America's oligarchy is driving the country's decline, but that doesn't mean foreign actors aren't contributing by taking advantage of the chaos. Pretending Russia had no influence, just because you think some liberals exaggerated it, is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
This is a good post.

I never said Russia has had zero influence on American politics and don't believe that. They have admitted to running foreign influence campaigns - like many other countries have - and we've seen evidence of such. These campaigns have clearly had some effect. What I'm pushing back on is the Resistance Lib idea that they are a determinative force in this story. It's an attempt to deflect from reckoning with actual history, and it disables the ability for one to truly understand where and how this right-wing assault is taking place. The amount of attention given to this conspiracy theory is actively harmful because redirects people's attention and energy from more useful analyses.

To the degree that Trump reshaped the party to become less hostile to Russia, that is again incontestable, but I believe the cause of this is more complex than just the exotic spy story that has snookered in so many Resistance Libs. There were a lot of stars aligning that brought us to this point. And remember, it was Dubya who let the wolf in when he gazed into Putin's eyes and fell in love.
 

King Kreole

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mitt.gif
 

King Kreole

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Not sure what your point is, if Putin had kompromat on Trump or not it doesn’t really matter.

If Putin installed a puppet in the White House that puppet would govern indistinguishably how Trump is governing right now.

so yes it would be fair to say the resistance liberals were right and how Trump is acting right now is pure vindication.
If Putin were assassinated 15 years ago Trump or a Trump-like figure would still be elected and we'd be in more or less the exact same position. So if you're trying to figure out how to get out of this mess, you need your root-cause analysis to be correct. Focusing on Putin instead of the domestic conservative/Republican movement is firing at dummy target. America needs more introspection right now, not more extrospection.

The Soviet Union wasn’t some beacon of human rights, not sure why you’re trying to frame it as America corrupted some beacon of liberty and prosperity
Soviet Union has their own myriad of moral and structural problems, I've never said they were a beacon on liberty and prosperity. I said they lost the Cold War so Russia was shaped by America, not the other way around.
 

Outlaw

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If Putin were assassinated 15 years ago Trump or a Trump-like figure would still be elected and we'd be in more or less the exact same position. So if you're trying to figure out how to get out of this mess, you need your root-cause analysis to be correct. Focusing on Putin instead of the domestic conservative/Republican movement is firing at dummy target. America needs more introspection right now, not more extrospection.
Not sure why you can say that so confidently. Russia played a huge role in Trump’s victory in 2016. Without Russian misinformation, propaganda and bot farms I’m not sure Trump style populism would be able to take hold.

Stupid people have literally been indoctrinated into supporting Trump because of it
 

King Kreole

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Not sure why you can say that so confidently. Russia played a huge role in Trump’s victory in 2016. Without Russian misinformation, propaganda and bot farms I’m not sure Trump style populism would be able to take hold.

Stupid people have literally been indoctrinated into supporting Trump because of it
I very deeply disagree with this.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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If Putin were assassinated 15 years ago Trump or a Trump-like figure would still be elected and we'd be in more or less the exact same position. So if you're trying to figure out how to get out of this mess, you need your root-cause analysis to be correct. Focusing on Putin instead of the domestic conservative/Republican movement is firing at dummy target. America needs more introspection right now, not more extrospection.


Soviet Union has their own myriad of moral and structural problems, I've never said they were a beacon on liberty and prosperity. I said they lost the Cold War so Russia was shaped by America, not the other way around.
Wikileaks wouldn’t be leaked GRU hacked emails from Hillary Clinton, for starters.

WTF are you talking about?
 

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This is a good post.

I never said Russia has had zero influence on American politics and don't believe that. They have admitted to running foreign influence campaigns - like many other countries have - and we've seen evidence of such. These campaigns have clearly had some effect.
What I'm pushing back on is the Resistance Lib idea that they are a determinative force in this story. It's an attempt to deflect from reckoning with actual history, and it disables the ability for one to truly understand where and how this right-wing assault is taking place. The amount of attention given to this conspiracy theory is actively harmful because redirects people's attention and energy from more useful analyses.

To the degree that Trump reshaped the party to become less hostile to Russia, that is again incontestable, but I believe the cause of this is more complex than just the exotic spy story that has snookered in so many Resistance Libs. There were a lot of stars aligning that brought us to this point. And remember, it was Dubya who let the wolf in when he gazed into Putin's eyes and fell in love.
This is a contradiction.

A foreign country planting lies, is itself a problem. Trump is mad his end-run around Biden in Ukraine got exposed and resulted in his impeachment.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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Not sure what your point is, if Putin had kompromat on Trump or not it doesn’t really matter.

If Putin installed a puppet in the White House that puppet would govern indistinguishably how Trump is governing right now.

so yes it would be fair to say the resistance liberals were right and how Trump is acting right now is pure vindication.


The Soviet Union wasn’t some beacon of human rights, not sure why you’re trying to frame it as America corrupted some beacon of liberty and prosperity
If you notice, Trump never denies the actions, merely the legality of the actions. Even going back to 2016...
 

King Kreole

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Wikileaks wouldn’t be leaked GRU hacked emails from Hillary Clinton, for starters.

WTF are you talking about?
This is a contradiction.

A foreign country planting lies, is itself a problem. Trump is mad his end-run around Biden in Ukraine got exposed and resulted in his impeachment.
close20door-gif.25346
 
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