For whom the Drum rolls: 2013-2014 Detroit Pistons Thread

[O.iatlhawksfan]

Can't wait for Wednesday losers

 

[FreshFromATL]

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

make irrational judgements on players abilities, team cohesiveness and the mental status of individual players concerning their involvement in the offense and their thoughts on free agency based on 5 games of looking at box scores, brehs

Yeah they are!

Shooting the ball from 3 when noone is under the rim to rebound is poor shot selection

shooting the ball when there is 20 seconds remaining on the clock.

shooting the ball over a defender when You have an open man to pass it to...

It's not the # of shots that they are taking, it is the quality of shots.

Why are you always one step behind?

They aren't mutually exclusive in THIS instance simply because like I've said before the team is doomed either way, if yall to have any shot at winning BJ/Smith need to shoot the ball, that means all the above will happen whether you like it or not. If you give chuckers the luxury of having high volume shotloads you're gonna get stupid shots - it's inevitable.

Their shot selections come with the territory of them being the players who have the #1/#2 roles. Your argument would hold weight if they were bench players, because your team wouldn't need them to take ill-advised shots, or shots that don't need to be taken. Like I've said before the worst thing position you can put a inefficient chucker is in a #1 role, because not only does it encourage that sort of play, the team actually needs them to shoot in order to have a shot at winning.

You can't be saying you're not mad at the volume but mad at their shot selection, because they're inherently the same thing and will continue to be as long as they're both on the team.

And how much they are paid doesn't determine how much they will play. CV and BG were once the highest paid on the team. They also seen more of the bench than lesser payed players during their tenure..

Yes it does matter how much they're paid. That's the whole point of why they were brought on the team. You can't be comparing this situation to Gordon/Charlie, because Smith and Jennings will be averaging more minutes than any other perimeters players. Not just because of their contracts, but because there's nobody else.

Smith was benched during much of The game vs. the GSWs. Vs. the kings Smith clearly showed what Dumars had in mind, at least with Smith.

One game out of how many? He's not gonna be benched like that on the regular. Simply because he gives yall the best chance at success and Cheeks will be given the flick if he doesn't play him to the scale he's being paid.

Dumars didn't give Josh that contract to be sitting on the bench.

He can fill a stat sheet. and doesn't have to score efficiently for the team to win.

In what planet doesn't Smith have to score efficiently in order for your team to win?

I'm beginning to like the odds of BJ improving as well. With the credits that Westbrooke gives to Mo. and what Chris Paul has said about Chauncey lets me know that it's just a matter of time before BJ's game is broken down and improved.

No, just no. This is just all types of wrong. Even if he were to improve, he won't be doing it in Detroit and certainly not from this shyt you're spewing.

Seriously that is some of the most baseless shyt I've heard in argument for a player improving. You're telling me a bunch of words from ONE player talking about a coach and what ONE player says about another (when BJ is nothing like Westbrook or Paul) is justification for you to believe Jennings will definitely improve?

Just a bunch of words? Are you that naive that thinking a few words from 1% of players (% of players involved over their careers) will mean Jennings will improve his game?

I go by historical and current evidence and you're going on what a bunch of players say as reason to think he will improve.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The only way Jennings will ever have a shot at improving his game, is in a strict offense and one that doesn't have him as the #1 perimeter player.

 

[pawdalaw]

Why are you always one step behind?

It's You that seem to be a step behind. Myself and other posters within this thread have long ago determined that it is defense and not offense that is costing us games.

They aren't mutually exclusive in THIS instance simply because like I've said before the team is doomed either way, if yall to have any shot at winning BJ/Smith need to shoot the ball, that means all the above will happen whether you like it or not. If you give chuckers the luxury of having high volume shotloads you're gonna get stupid shots - it's inevitable.

And they are mutually exclusive because a large # of their shots are being put up at the wrong. They can shoot the ball whenever they want. they just need to do so when 1 of 3 of the leagues best rebounders are under the rim. That would limit opponents fast break attempts and also give them opportunities to "chuck" more shots. or create tip-ins for Moose and Dre.

Their shot selections come with the territory of them being the players who have the #1/#2 roles. Your argument would hold weight if they were bench players, because your team wouldn't need them to take ill-advised shots, or shots that don't need to be taken. Like I've said before the worst thing position you can put a inefficient chucker is in a #1 role, because not only does it encourage that sort of play, the team actually needs them to shoot in order to have a shot at winning.

See above. it is defense and not offense that is losing us games shot selection is just 1 thing that can be improved upon. We have no problem scoring the ball. Our biggest problem is stopping the ball.

You can't be saying you're not mad at the volume but mad at their shot selection, because they're inherently the same thing and will continue to be as long as they're both on the team.

They are not the same thing. I listed at least 3-4 ways that they can improve the efficiency of their shots. It's not like there is a shortage of shots for anyone on the team to take. Pistons are 17th in the league at possessions per game ahead of the likes of the Spurs,Heat,Bulls,Pacers and Warriors. So there is plenty of room to take a couple seconds off the clock to create better shots.

Yes it does matter how much they're paid. That's the whole point of why they were brought on the team. You can't be comparing this situation to Gordon/Charlie, because Smith and Jennings will be averaging more minutes than any other perimeters players. Not just because of their contracts, but because there's nobody else.

I can't compare them to BG and CV why? They all played for the Pistons during Joe's tenure didn't they? What if I compare them to Iverson. when He made 20 mill. off of the Pistons?

One game out of how many? He's not gonna be benched like that on the regular. Simply because he gives yall the best chance at success and Cheeks will be given the flick if he doesn't play him to the scale he's being paid.

Dumars didn't give Josh that contract to be sitting on the bench.


In what planet doesn't Smith have to score efficiently in order for your team to win?

Smith doesn't have to score effeciently in order for us to win. He does enough other things to fill the Stat sheet. He did earn the rep as an above average defender playing for the hawks didn't he?

Seriously that is some of the most baseless shyt I've heard in argument for a player improving. You're telling me a bunch of words from ONE player talking about a coach and what ONE player says about another (when BJ is nothing like Westbrook or Paul) is justification for you to believe Jennings will definitely improve?

So being under the tutelage of 2 of the games best point guards in the past 3 or 4 decades is baseless shyt? So You're telling me that coaching doesn't improve a players game? think about what You just said for a minute. BJ doesn't have to become Westbrook or Paul. He just needs to make slight improvements. and he is in a good position to do so.

Just a bunch of words? Are you that naive that thinking a few words from 1% of players (% of players involved over their careers) will mean Jennings will improve his game?

I go by historical and current evidence and you're going on what a bunch of players say as reason to think he will improve.

It's OK, I feel the same way every time I read one of Your posts. It seems based more on emotion than anything else. I'm supposed to be the emotional one here. After all it is my #1 sports team. You are the same one that said the Pistons don't have any assets. I knew You had some other agenda since I read that.Yet myself and other fans of the team can see that it is our defense that is hurting us more than the Offense. Yet offense is the only argument You can provide for failure.

Detroit is:
13th in the league in scoring

17th in the league in posseions per game

16th in the league in shooting %

1st in the league in offense rebounding. (* oreb and shooting % are exclusive to one another) we are first in the league and can widen that gap and increase our shooting % with just a few tweeks to their selection.

16th in the league in blocks and steals.

24th in scoring defense. So all indications point to us being a middle of the pack team. Our defense is subpar.

And I quote:

I go by historical and current evidence and you're going on what a bunch of players say as reason to think he will improve.

Go sit Your ass down! obviously You are not going by the current evidence provided.

 

[wire28]

Gil always seems to have free time to post in here after a loss

And @pawdalaw this nikka don't watch the games he reads the box score and comes in here to troll. Don't waste your energy on this nikka

 

[pawdalaw]

Gil always seems to have free time to post in here after a loss

And @pawdalaw this nikka don't watch the games he reads the box score and comes in here to troll. Don't waste your energy on this nikka

Lol! I keep reminding myself of the quote of not stooping to argue. But dude is ridiculous. I love basketball. I gave props to GSW because I thought they played a beautiful game. I dapped a Hawk troll because I love competitiveness. But I hate a Negative Nancy ass Nikka! Nikkas that argue for the sake of arguing... I t is very possible to be on opposing sides and agree to disagree. But this Nikka here needs to just be shut down at every opportunity... I will make that my job.

I love the Pistons

we have played less than 10 games together collectively. They have a new coach and 8 new players to the team. The starting point guard missed preseason., Jennings is 24, Dre is 20 Moose is 22(?) Josh is 27 (?). I love our talent and like our odds. Chemistry and communicating on defense will improve our record significantly... That comes from playing together. Unlike the past we are not lacking talent.

Josh and BJ are not Achilles, Our defense and bench is. Mo needs to figure out a starting rotation, Because the pieces are all there.GiGi can hit the 3, KCP can defend the perimeter. Josh can be a glue guy. Monroe can play the post. Drummond can do what he does. The talent is there Brehs. let it do what it do. Boxscore from last night says we need a bench and defense, that comes with time playing together.

 

[cleanface coney]

one of these nikkas gotta go

 

[NormanConnors]

He was a traitorous, disloyal curmudgeon, but damn I miss Larry Brown. No way would he have stood for this shyt. If you ain't playing d, you sitting. And the ball is going into the post damn near every possession. We follow up Carlisle and Brown with Flip, Curry, Cuester, and now Cheeks. Seriously, wtf was Joe thinking. Time for his ass to along with his coaches.

I don't believe Cheeks or Franks was a Joe hire. I agree on needing a Larry Brown type though, but it seemed like since Larry burned the Pistons, they have been going with these laid back/player coach type of fellas. That MIGHT work on a veteran team depending on who the players are (Rip and Tay messed the locker room up Kuester, and Curry wasn't ready/a bad hire in general) but a young squad like ours needs a boss.

 

[eastside313]

Lol! I keep reminding myself of the quote of not stooping to argue. But dude is ridiculous. I love basketball. I gave props to GSW because I thought they played a beautiful game. I dapped a Hawk troll because I love competitiveness. But I hate a Negative Nancy ass Nikka! Nikkas that argue for the sake of arguing... I t is very possible to be on opposing sides and agree to disagree. But this Nikka here needs to just be shut down at every opportunity... I will make that my job.

I love the Pistons

we have played less than 10 games together collectively. They have a new coach and 8 new players to the team. The starting point guard missed preseason., Jennings is 24, Dre is 20 Moose is 22(?) Josh is 27 (?). I love our talent and like our odds. Chemistry and communicating on defense will improve our record significantly... That comes from playing together. Unlike the past we are not lacking talent.

Josh and BJ are not Achilles, Our defense and bench is. Mo needs to figure out a starting rotation, Because the pieces are all there.GiGi can hit the 3, KCP can defend the perimeter. Josh can be a glue guy. Monroe can play the post. Drummond can do what he does. The talent is there Brehs. let it do what it do. Boxscore from last night says we need a bench and defense, that comes with time playing together.

Those 2 players will never be part of a serious contender until they learn to be team players.

 

[pawdalaw]

Those 2 players will never be part of a serious contender until they learn to be team players.

Well both of them have gonna to the playoffs. And I do agree they won't be title contenders until they play as a team. I don't see that as an impossible task.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It's You that seem to be a step behind. Myself and other posters within this thread have long ago determined that it is defense and not offense that is costing us games.

When your two best perimeter players are sub 30% jump shooters, you've got a problem.

And they are mutually exclusive because a large # of their shots are being put up at the wrong. They can shoot the ball whenever they want. they just need to do so when 1 of 3 of the leagues best rebounders are under the rim. That would limit opponents fast break attempts and also give them opportunities to "chuck" more shots. or create tip-ins for Moose and Dre.

No it doesn't work like that. You're speaking as if basketball is some imaginary type of situation. The reality is if you give Smith and Jennings free rein in an offense, those types of ill-advised shots will happen. You can't have it both ways, you can't expect to give two chuckers unlimited touches and on the other hand hope they only shoot high percentage shots. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. You're living a fantasy if you think that is a probable outcome.

It's like putting an addict in a locked room and surrounding him with drugs and telling him he can ONLY needle up x times, he gonna shoot up whenever the fukk he wants. You'd be naive to think that he wouldn't.

So being under the tutelage of 2 of the games best point guards in the past 3 or 4 decades is baseless shyt? So You're telling me that coaching doesn't improve a players game? think about what You just said for a minute. BJ doesn't have to become Westbrook or Paul. He just needs to make slight improvements. and he is in a good position to do so.

Is you slow? The fact that both have been terrible, inconsistent, chucking players for the last 4-5 seasons outweighs your argument of what one player said about Cheeks' coaching and another player's view of Chauncey's leadership. I have ACTUAL HISTORICAL EVIDENCE on why they won't improve in this environment, nothing you can provide outweighs that. NOTHING.

Don't you think Bucks fans' thought Jennings would improve his shot selection/shot ability over his time in Milwaukee? Don't you think Hawks' fans thought Smith would improve his shot selection/shot ability over his time in Atlanta?

Provide evidence other than your 'hope' that they may improve, at this current moment, they're continuing on from what they've done over the last few seasons - shytty shot selection and poor % jump shots. How is it gonna change?

t's OK, I feel the same way every time I read one of Your posts. It seems based more on emotion than anything else. I'm supposed to be the emotional one here. After all it is my #1 sports team. You are the same one that said the Pistons don't have any assets. I knew You had some other agenda since I read that.Yet myself and other fans of the team can see that it is our defense that is hurting us more than the Offense. Yet offense is the only argument You can provide for failure.

My posts are based on reason and facts. You're a typical homer and going by optimism. I don't have any agenda. I'm telling it like it is. The offense ties into the defense, Smith/Jennings inability to be actual leaders ties into the defense too.Jennings can't defend PGs (he can't defend shyt) and Smith can't defend SFs. That's why I keep telling you they were both one of, if not the worst signings of the offseason.

As long as both are on your team you will not see any success. If you had actually watched other teams besides your own, you would see how incompetent they've been over the last said seasons.

Ask Hawks fans about Smith, ask Bucks fans about Jennings. They'll all tell you the same thing as I am. Are you telling me you're more informed than folk that have actually WATCHED them over the last 4-5 seasons?

I have no problem with you being optimistic about them improving (it's your team), but you have no ground to stand on to think your belief they will improve has a higher standing than reality.

t13th in the league in scoring

17th in the league in posseions per game

16th in the league in shooting %

1st in the league in offense rebounding. (* oreb and shooting % are exclusive to one another) we are first in the league and can widen that gap and increase our shooting % with just a few tweeks to their selection.

16th in the league in blocks and steals.

24th in scoring defense. So all indications point to us being a middle of the pack team. Our defense is subpar.

None of those stats mean shyt, because you're not gonna get anywhere if you have 31% /33% career jump shooting, turnover prone, knucklehead players as your #1/#2 options.

What success has Smith had in his career? What success has Jennings had over his career? What makes you think shyt will change?

Go sit Your ass down! obviously You are not going by the current evidence provided.

You don't have any evidence.

How many Hawks and Bucks game have you watched over the last 4-5 seasons?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Gil always seems to have free time to post in here after a loss

And @pawdalaw this nikka don't watch the games he reads the box score and comes in here to troll. Don't waste your energy on this nikka

I post when I post, it ain't got shyt to do if the Pistons win or lose. No unlike all yall, I don't just watch one team. Anybody that is more hopeful than doubtful that Jennings/Smith will work, obviously hasn't watched them play on the regular.

 

[Swiggy]

I never trusted the Jennings or Smith additions. Smith out there tryna get his T-Mac on when he should be more Shawn Marion, while Jennings is probably what Brandon Knight's best case scenario ceiling was.

I'd keep Smith in hopes he can be reined in, but Jennings

But this ain't the year we contend, just get better. We regressed during the last couple of weeks after a very strong start. I just hope Mo Cheeks isn't something we come to regret.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Lol! I keep reminding myself of the quote of not stooping to argue. But dude is ridiculous. I love basketball. I gave props to GSW because I thought they played a beautiful game. I dapped a Hawk troll because I love competitiveness. But I hate a Negative Nancy ass Nikka! Nikkas that argue for the sake of arguing... I t is very possible to be on opposing sides and agree to disagree. But this Nikka here needs to just be shut down at every opportunity... I will make that my job.

None of this makes sense. You love basketball? What the fukk does that got to do with anything? No what you hate is, somebody that's spitting reality, because it's quite clear you can't deal with it. Yes of course it is possible to be on opposing sides, as I said I have no problem with you being optimistic, just don't be acting like your optimistic view of your squad has weight over a realistic one.

And that last bit was corny. Your job? Really?

Tell me what big men have improved/thrived/developed under Jennings? What guards have improved/thrived/developed next to Smith?