null
...
i don't think you understand what happened in 2008.
and ...
i don't think you understand how economic and particularly finance work.
plus american-centric babble
evergrande
- Thread starter Pyrexcup
- Start date
i don't think you understand what happened in 2008.
and ...
i don't think you understand how economic and particularly finance work.
plus american-centric babble
pawdalaw
Superstar
Sensitive much? It's pointless for you to mention the rewriting of rules when a decade later we find ourselves in a far worst position. Based on the latter part of your post I can see that you are in full agreement.who said anything else e-grow ...
answer questions no one asked brehs
correct statements that only exist in your head brehs
and in any case your thinking is limited. much as opportunities are outcomes anything between root and terminating leaf is a cause or a symptom depending on the scope and level of the discussion.
pawdalaw
Superstar
I don't think you are capable of articulating your stance. What part of a global economic collapse are you not understanding? American- centric? Yeah, being that's where I reside I can see most how we are effected. Tell us what countries will not be affected. Evergrande is just the tip. To pretend otherwise is just arguing for the sake of it.i don't think you understand what happened in 2008.
and ...
i don't think you understand how economic and particularly finance work.
plus american-centric babble
null
...
lots of assumptions in there.
there are plenty more rules to be rewritten to keep the plates spinning.
that is not to say that it will avert eventual calamity but it can postpone facing the real problems now.
do not underestimate how far they will go to protect the system. that includes tearing up the rule book. this is one of the the primary lessons from 2008 and the subsequent years IMO.
despite what the rules say they are not going to sit idly by, playing by rules which are not working while we descend into barter led scarcity. and given that it is the countries of last resort that are engaged in this, they have the additional protection there is no safer economic haven for the affected to flee to.
null
...
nah. i am not arguing with you, for reasons I have already mentioned.
people have important things to do.
EXCLUSIVE Evergrande's $1.7 bln Hong Kong headquarters sale flops as buyer withdraws
EXCLUSIVE Evergrande's $1.7 bln Hong Kong headquarters sale flops as buyer withdraws
By Julie Zhu and Kane Wu, Clare Jim
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HONG KONG, Oct 15 (Reuters) - Chinese state-owned Yuexiu Property (0123.HK) has pulled out of a proposed $1.7 billion deal to buy China Evergrande Group's (3333.HK) Hong Kong headquarters building over worries about the developer's dire financial situation, two sources said.
The collapse of the talks for the landmark building's sale is another setback for cash-strapped Evergrande which has been scrambling to divest some assets to repay creditors knocking on its doors. With more than $300 billion in liabilities, it has already missed three rounds of interest payments on its international bonds.
Yuexiu, based in the southern city of Guangzhou, was close to sealing a deal in August to acquire the 26-storey China Evergrande Centre in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district that serves as Evergrande's local headquarters, said the sources.
The deal, however, faltered after Yuexiu's board opposed the move over worries that Evergrande's unresolved indebtedness would create potential complications in completing the transaction smoothly, they said.
Once China's top-selling developer, Shenzhen-based Evergrande has in recent months sought to raise funds by offloading assets - from properties to stakes in subsidiaries - both in mainland China and in Hong Kong.
Evergrande,which saw its 8.75% June 2025 bond fall more than 6% to 18.625 cents on Friday, did not respond to a request for comment. Nor did Yuexiu.
The people declined to be identified due to confidentiality constraints.
Evergrande bought the harbourside building, which is located in Hong Kong's commercial and night life district and covers an area of 345,000 square feet, from local peer Chinese Estates Holdings (0127.HK) for HK$12.5 billion ($1.61 billion) in 2015.
That deal set a record for a single transaction of a commercial building in the Asian financial hub with the highest price per square foot at the time. It also made the property Evergrande's single largest asset in the city.
Evergrande has financed the bulk of the transaction with securitised products worth more than HK$10 billion, said one of the sources, which means it would only recoup limited cash from the sale of the building.
EVERGRANDE PROSPECTS
The board of Yuexiu, which focuses on property developments in China's Greater Bay Area and has a presence in Hong Kong, became concerned about the deal's certainty at a time when Evergrande's future is uncertain, said one of the sources.
Yuexiu also received guidance from the municipal government of the southern city of Guangzhou to put the purchase on hold at the end of August, said the person.
A separate source familiar with the matter said the deal was halted in late August because the Guangzhou government wanted to review the overall financial situation of Evergrande first to better understand the use of proceeds from its asset disposals.
The Guangzhou government did not respond to a request for comment.
Separately, Evergrande is in final talks to sell a 51% stake in its property management arm Evergrande Property Services (6666.HK) to domestic peer Hopson Development (0754.HK), in a deal that could fetch about HK$20 billion, said two of the sources.
One of them said both parties are finalising details including financing for the buyer.
When asked about the deal, Hopson said any comments will have to wait till an announcement is made.
The Hopson deal would be Evergrande's largest asset sale yet if it goes ahead. The struggling developer's other business interests include a bottling water company and an electric vehicle maker.
It is also close to selling its Guangzhou FC Soccer stadium and surrounding residential projects to Guangzhou City Construction Investment Group, Reuters reported last month. read more
($1 = 7.7784 Hong Kong dollars)
Reporting by Julie Zhu, Kane Wu and Clare Jim; Editing by Sumeet Chatterjee, Muralikumar Anantharaman and Jason Neely
EXCLUSIVE Evergrande's $1.7 bln Hong Kong headquarters sale flops as buyer withdraws
By Julie Zhu and Kane Wu, Clare Jim
HONG KONG, Oct 15 (Reuters) - Chinese state-owned Yuexiu Property (0123.HK) has pulled out of a proposed $1.7 billion deal to buy China Evergrande Group's (3333.HK) Hong Kong headquarters building over worries about the developer's dire financial situation, two sources said.
The collapse of the talks for the landmark building's sale is another setback for cash-strapped Evergrande which has been scrambling to divest some assets to repay creditors knocking on its doors. With more than $300 billion in liabilities, it has already missed three rounds of interest payments on its international bonds.
Yuexiu, based in the southern city of Guangzhou, was close to sealing a deal in August to acquire the 26-storey China Evergrande Centre in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district that serves as Evergrande's local headquarters, said the sources.
The deal, however, faltered after Yuexiu's board opposed the move over worries that Evergrande's unresolved indebtedness would create potential complications in completing the transaction smoothly, they said.
Once China's top-selling developer, Shenzhen-based Evergrande has in recent months sought to raise funds by offloading assets - from properties to stakes in subsidiaries - both in mainland China and in Hong Kong.
Evergrande,which saw its 8.75% June 2025 bond fall more than 6% to 18.625 cents on Friday, did not respond to a request for comment. Nor did Yuexiu.
The people declined to be identified due to confidentiality constraints.
Evergrande bought the harbourside building, which is located in Hong Kong's commercial and night life district and covers an area of 345,000 square feet, from local peer Chinese Estates Holdings (0127.HK) for HK$12.5 billion ($1.61 billion) in 2015.
That deal set a record for a single transaction of a commercial building in the Asian financial hub with the highest price per square foot at the time. It also made the property Evergrande's single largest asset in the city.
Evergrande has financed the bulk of the transaction with securitised products worth more than HK$10 billion, said one of the sources, which means it would only recoup limited cash from the sale of the building.
EVERGRANDE PROSPECTS
The board of Yuexiu, which focuses on property developments in China's Greater Bay Area and has a presence in Hong Kong, became concerned about the deal's certainty at a time when Evergrande's future is uncertain, said one of the sources.
Yuexiu also received guidance from the municipal government of the southern city of Guangzhou to put the purchase on hold at the end of August, said the person.
A separate source familiar with the matter said the deal was halted in late August because the Guangzhou government wanted to review the overall financial situation of Evergrande first to better understand the use of proceeds from its asset disposals.
The Guangzhou government did not respond to a request for comment.
Separately, Evergrande is in final talks to sell a 51% stake in its property management arm Evergrande Property Services (6666.HK) to domestic peer Hopson Development (0754.HK), in a deal that could fetch about HK$20 billion, said two of the sources.
One of them said both parties are finalising details including financing for the buyer.
When asked about the deal, Hopson said any comments will have to wait till an announcement is made.
The Hopson deal would be Evergrande's largest asset sale yet if it goes ahead. The struggling developer's other business interests include a bottling water company and an electric vehicle maker.
It is also close to selling its Guangzhou FC Soccer stadium and surrounding residential projects to Guangzhou City Construction Investment Group, Reuters reported last month. read more
($1 = 7.7784 Hong Kong dollars)
Reporting by Julie Zhu, Kane Wu and Clare Jim; Editing by Sumeet Chatterjee, Muralikumar Anantharaman and Jason Neely
Hong Kong audit watchdog investigating Evergrande and PwC
Hong Kong audit watchdog investigating Evergrande and PwC
The China Evergrande Centre building sign is seen in Hong Kong, China, September 23, 2021. REUTERS/Tyrone Siu//File Photo
HONG KONG, Oct 15 (Reuters) - Hong Kong's audit regulator said on Friday it was investigating China Evergrande Group's (3333.HK) 2020 accounts and their audit by PwC because it had concerns about the adequacy of reporting on whether it could continue operating as a going concern.
Cash-strapped Evergrande has been scrambling to divest some assets to repay creditors knocking on its doors. With more than $300 billion in liabilities, it has already missed three rounds of interest payments on its international bonds. read more
The Financial Reporting Council said it had launched an inquiry into Evergrande's accounts for the full year of 2020 and the first half of 2021, and an investigation of PwC's audit of Evergrande's 2020 accounts.
The FRC said Evergrande as of end 2020 reported cash and cash equivalents of 159 billion yuan ($24.73 billion), which did not cover its current liabilities of 1.5 trillion yuan, and had further borrowings of 167 billion yuan maturing in 2022.
However, the accounts made no explicit statement about whether material going concern uncertainties existed before or after the effects of implementing plans Evergrande said it had to mitigate potential impacts on cash flow, it said.
PwC expressed an unmodified audit opinion in its auditor’s report on the 2020 annual accounts, but made no reference to material uncertainties regarding whether Evergrande was a going concern, the FRC said.
Evergrande and PwC did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
($1 = 6.4290 Chinese yuan renminbi)
Reporting by Alun John; Editing by Jason Neely and Jan Harvey
Hong Kong audit watchdog investigating Evergrande and PwC
The China Evergrande Centre building sign is seen in Hong Kong, China, September 23, 2021. REUTERS/Tyrone Siu//File Photo
HONG KONG, Oct 15 (Reuters) - Hong Kong's audit regulator said on Friday it was investigating China Evergrande Group's (3333.HK) 2020 accounts and their audit by PwC because it had concerns about the adequacy of reporting on whether it could continue operating as a going concern.
Cash-strapped Evergrande has been scrambling to divest some assets to repay creditors knocking on its doors. With more than $300 billion in liabilities, it has already missed three rounds of interest payments on its international bonds. read more
The Financial Reporting Council said it had launched an inquiry into Evergrande's accounts for the full year of 2020 and the first half of 2021, and an investigation of PwC's audit of Evergrande's 2020 accounts.
The FRC said Evergrande as of end 2020 reported cash and cash equivalents of 159 billion yuan ($24.73 billion), which did not cover its current liabilities of 1.5 trillion yuan, and had further borrowings of 167 billion yuan maturing in 2022.
However, the accounts made no explicit statement about whether material going concern uncertainties existed before or after the effects of implementing plans Evergrande said it had to mitigate potential impacts on cash flow, it said.
PwC expressed an unmodified audit opinion in its auditor’s report on the 2020 annual accounts, but made no reference to material uncertainties regarding whether Evergrande was a going concern, the FRC said.
Evergrande and PwC did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
($1 = 6.4290 Chinese yuan renminbi)
Reporting by Alun John; Editing by Jason Neely and Jan Harvey
When someone Asian says something is "Fine" then more than likely the issue is far more severe than they let on. Look at covid, they had that under control right lol?
They have a pride thing as a culture....A Chinese soldier could have a sword through his chest and be like...."It's fine...just tell my family I died brave"
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A major reason they weren’t as proactive leading up to ‘08 crash was rising inflation (oil hit $150 bbl that Summer). The lack of rising inflation is why they were aggressive after Covid popped off. If the Fed is as aggressive again within such a short period of time, double digit inflation will become a reality and make things even worse. Don’t underestimate inflation fears.
China is all about not loosing face. The CCP rather shoots itself in the foot then say something is wrong.
