Eric Holder: Banning Homeschooling Doesn’t Violate Fundamental Rights

Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
39,797
Reputation
-150
Daps
65,108
Reppin
NULL
Eric Holder: Banning Homeschooling Doesn’t Violate Fundamental Rights | Caffeinated Thoughts

Eric Holder: “Banning Homeschooling Doesn’t Violate Fundamental Rights”


Shane Vander Hart | February 12, 2013 | Caffeinated Thoughts

I read an article written by Michael Farris, the founder and chair of HSLDA – the Home School Legal Defense Association. In it he discussed the case made by government lawyers representing Attorney General Eric Holder during the court hearing for the Romeike family. You may remember the Romeike’s sought political asylum in the United States due to Germany’s persecution of homeschooling families. A federal district court judge granted the Romikes asylum here against the wishes of the Federal government. The government appealed that decision to the Board of Immigration appeals and won. HSLDA appealed to the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals where the case (Romeike v. Holder) will be heard.

Farris outlined three arguments made by the U.S. Department of Justice lawyers which should be of concern to American homeschooling families:

He said the first argument in essence is that a government isn’t violating anyone’s rights if homeschooling is banned altogether.

First, they argued that there was no violation of anyone’s protected rights in a law that entirely bans homeschooling. There would only be a problem if Germany banned homeschooling for some but permitted it for others.

Now in reality, Germany does permit some people to homeschool, but it is rare and in general Germany does ban homeschooling broadly—although not completely. (Germany allows exemptions from compulsory attendance for Gypsies and those whose jobs require constant travel. Those who want to stay at home and teach their own children are always denied.)…

…There are two major portions of constitutional rights of citizens—fundamental liberties and equal protection. The U.S. Attorney General has said this about homeschooling. There is no fundamental liberty to homeschool. So long as a government bans homeschooling broadly and equally, there is no violation of your rights. This is a view which gives some acknowledgement to the principle of equal protection but which entirely jettisons the concept of fundamental liberties.

Farris noted the DOJ’s 2nd argument was that the Romeikes failed to show there was discrimination based on religion since not all homeschooling families are Christian, and not every Christian believes they have to homeschool.

This argument demonstrates another form of dangerous “group think” by our own government. The central problem here is that the U.S. government does not understand that religious freedom is an individual right. One need not be a part of any church or other religious group to be able to make a religious freedom claim. Specifically, one doesn’t have to follow the dictates of a church to claim religious freedom—one should be able to follow the dictates of God Himself.

The United States Supreme Court has made it very clear in the past that religious freedom is an individual right. Yet our current government does not seem to understand this. They only think of us as members of groups and factions. It is an extreme form of identity politics that directly threatens any understanding of individual liberty.

A third argument that DOJ made was that the Romeikes did not meet the standard of being part of a social group with “immutable” characteristics that can’t change and should not be required to change. They said the Romeikes could choose not to homeschool and send their children to public school and then teach from home since their children would have only been in school for 22-26 hours during the week.

There are two main problems with this argument. First, our government does not understand that families like the Romeikes have two goals when they chose homeschooling. There are things they want to teach and there are things they want to avoid their children being taught in the government schools.

Does anyone think that our government would say to Orthodox Jewish parents, we can force your children to eat pork products for 22-26 hours per week because the rest of the time you can feed them kosher food?

Freedom for the mind and spirit is as important as freedom for the body and spirit.

This argument necessarily means that the United States government believes that it would not violate your rights if our own government banned homeschooling entirely. After all, you could teach your children your own values after they have had 22-26 hours of public school indoctrination aimed at counteracting religious and philosophical views the government doesn’t like.

The second problem with this argument goes back to the definition of immutability. Immutable means a characteristic that cannot be changed or “should not be required” to be changed.

No one contends that homeschooling is a characteristic that cannot be changed. We simply contend that in a free nation it is a characteristic that should not be required to be changed.

Those of us who homeschool should be concerned because the Attorney General of the United States, Eric Holder, in the government’s arguments essentially said that he believes that a law that bans homeschooling would violate no fundamental liberties.
 

ltheghost

Payin Debts.... N40
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
6,500
Reputation
480
Daps
7,426
Reppin
Japan, but from the 989
The excuse is that Dept of Education claims Home-schoolers aren't getting the proper education and the parents don't have the proper credentials to teach their children at home.

I could understand that. Because you have all these dumb ass parents out there who barely finished high school in the 80's, they are not qualified. Its the socialization that the children will miss out on that creates these fukking monsters we have today. Look at Mitt Romney. He can't interact with normal people because he never lived amongst regular people.
 

The Real

Anti-Ignorance
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
6,353
Reputation
725
Daps
10,724
Reppin
NYC
Eric Holder: Banning Homeschooling Doesn’t Violate Fundamental Rights | Caffeinated Thoughts

Eric Holder: “Banning Homeschooling Doesn’t Violate Fundamental Rights”


Shane Vander Hart | February 12, 2013 | Caffeinated Thoughts

I read an article written by Michael Farris, the founder and chair of HSLDA – the Home School Legal Defense Association. In it he discussed the case made by government lawyers representing Attorney General Eric Holder during the court hearing for the Romeike family. You may remember the Romeike’s sought political asylum in the United States due to Germany’s persecution of homeschooling families. A federal district court judge granted the Romikes asylum here against the wishes of the Federal government. The government appealed that decision to the Board of Immigration appeals and won. HSLDA appealed to the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals where the case (Romeike v. Holder) will be heard.

Farris outlined three arguments made by the U.S. Department of Justice lawyers which should be of concern to American homeschooling families:

He said the first argument in essence is that a government isn’t violating anyone’s rights if homeschooling is banned altogether.

First, they argued that there was no violation of anyone’s protected rights in a law that entirely bans homeschooling. There would only be a problem if Germany banned homeschooling for some but permitted it for others.

Now in reality, Germany does permit some people to homeschool, but it is rare and in general Germany does ban homeschooling broadly—although not completely. (Germany allows exemptions from compulsory attendance for Gypsies and those whose jobs require constant travel. Those who want to stay at home and teach their own children are always denied.)…

…There are two major portions of constitutional rights of citizens—fundamental liberties and equal protection. The U.S. Attorney General has said this about homeschooling. There is no fundamental liberty to homeschool. So long as a government bans homeschooling broadly and equally, there is no violation of your rights. This is a view which gives some acknowledgement to the principle of equal protection but which entirely jettisons the concept of fundamental liberties.

Farris noted the DOJ’s 2nd argument was that the Romeikes failed to show there was discrimination based on religion since not all homeschooling families are Christian, and not every Christian believes they have to homeschool.

This argument demonstrates another form of dangerous “group think” by our own government. The central problem here is that the U.S. government does not understand that religious freedom is an individual right. One need not be a part of any church or other religious group to be able to make a religious freedom claim. Specifically, one doesn’t have to follow the dictates of a church to claim religious freedom—one should be able to follow the dictates of God Himself.

The United States Supreme Court has made it very clear in the past that religious freedom is an individual right. Yet our current government does not seem to understand this. They only think of us as members of groups and factions. It is an extreme form of identity politics that directly threatens any understanding of individual liberty.

A third argument that DOJ made was that the Romeikes did not meet the standard of being part of a social group with “immutable” characteristics that can’t change and should not be required to change. They said the Romeikes could choose not to homeschool and send their children to public school and then teach from home since their children would have only been in school for 22-26 hours during the week.

There are two main problems with this argument. First, our government does not understand that families like the Romeikes have two goals when they chose homeschooling. There are things they want to teach and there are things they want to avoid their children being taught in the government schools.

Does anyone think that our government would say to Orthodox Jewish parents, we can force your children to eat pork products for 22-26 hours per week because the rest of the time you can feed them kosher food?

Freedom for the mind and spirit is as important as freedom for the body and spirit.

This argument necessarily means that the United States government believes that it would not violate your rights if our own government banned homeschooling entirely. After all, you could teach your children your own values after they have had 22-26 hours of public school indoctrination aimed at counteracting religious and philosophical views the government doesn’t like.

The second problem with this argument goes back to the definition of immutability. Immutable means a characteristic that cannot be changed or “should not be required” to be changed.

No one contends that homeschooling is a characteristic that cannot be changed. We simply contend that in a free nation it is a characteristic that should not be required to be changed.

Those of us who homeschool should be concerned because the Attorney General of the United States, Eric Holder, in the government’s arguments essentially said that he believes that a law that bans homeschooling would violate no fundamental liberties.

The reason this case is being argued is that the US Federal Government doesn't want to start giving asylum status to what aren't asylum cases. The German family is arguing that they should be granted asylum here because they will be persecuted in Germany, where persecution is defined as not being able to homeschool. Asylum status here is reserved for people who are experiencing serious threat of actual discrimination and death. So in order to secure it, the German family's lawyer has to argue that this family is having a fundamental right violated by not being able to homeschool their child in Germany.

If the US agrees to this, then we'll have to start giving asylums out to all kinds of people. Muslims from France can say that having the veil banned there means they should be able to get asylum here, for example, which is extreme. They will be put in the same category with, and potentially take spots away from people who are actually facing the threat of death and much more serious violations.

That's the real lens through which you should be looking at this case. The government isn't saying that banning homeschooling would be totally fine. Yes, not being able to homeschool is wrong, and yes, banning it is a violation of some kind, maybe even a violation of a right, but it's not a violation of a fundamental right, which is a special legal category and not the same as other rights. These people don't deserve the same legal status as real asylum seekers. If they want to leave Germany and come here, let them immigrate legally and go through the same process as regular immigrants, rather than taking spots away from people who will die if they don't get asylum.
 

dasherwinator

Rookie
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
39
Reputation
0
Daps
5
Reppin
NULL
typical overreaching governmental powers. such a trend has been occuring domesitcally and with foreign policy
 

theworldismine13

God Emperor of SOHH
Bushed
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
22,666
Reputation
540
Daps
22,602
Reppin
Arrakis
These people don't deserve the same legal status as real asylum seekers. If they want to leave Germany and come here, let them immigrate legally and go through the same process as regular immigrants, rather than taking spots away from people who will die if they don't get asylum.

Or they could just ignore the deportation order and wait for amnesty, like normal illegal immigrants
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
39,797
Reputation
-150
Daps
65,108
Reppin
NULL
I could understand that. Because you have all these dumb ass parents out there who barely finished high school in the 80's, they are not qualified. Its the socialization that the children will miss out on that creates these fukking monsters we have today. Look at Mitt Romney. He can't interact with normal people because he never lived amongst regular people.

The problem is assuming what type of parents are homeschooling their kids. The Drop out rate in America for High School have sky-rocketed and the kids are joining gangs and selling drugs...this isn't about Mitt Romney. Its a right for a parent to teach they kid. Knowledge starts from home.
 

alybaba

Pro
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
803
Reputation
130
Daps
1,227
Reppin
NULL
Another example of the narrow perspective of conspiracy theorists. The Real addressed this - this is an immigration issue and the USGov is arguing its case accordingly.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
39,797
Reputation
-150
Daps
65,108
Reppin
NULL
Another example of the narrow perspective of conspiracy theorists. The Real addressed this - this is an immigration issue and the USGov is arguing its case accordingly.

Reach much?

How is narrow when no one said anything otherwise? I addressed only newark's questions that were said in the article.
 

Enzo

The Great
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
1,466
Reputation
685
Daps
3,266
Reppin
DMV
I don't think that is what is being said. I think they are saying that Germany's banning of home schooling doesn't equal a deprivation to a fundamental right so as to justify the granting of asylum. Now it appears that some opportunistic lawyer is trying to make this argument about home schooling being a fundamental right so he can get some attention.
 
Top