Is she really talking about taxing unrealized income? That’s never going to happen. It almost sounds absurd.
Elizabeth Warren HQ: She's Got A Plan!
- Thread starter King Kreole
- Start date
Is she really talking about taxing unrealized income? That’s never going to happen. It almost sounds absurd.
the cac mamba
Veteran
because it is
i respect her intentions, but taxing unrealized income is dead retarded
elon "lost" 25 billion in the last 2 weeks. does he get to write that off
If you tax unrealized income you could be forcing people to realize the income to pay the tax. Do they then get double taxed having to pay income tax on the forced realization to pay wealth tax?because it is
i respect her intentions, but taxing unrealized income is dead retarded
elon "lost" 25 billion in the last 2 weeks. does he get to write that off
I like Liz. She needs to sit down here. This is one of those ideas that’s simply class warfare trying to get poor and middle class people to gang up on the rich. It’s also borderline nonsensical. The game is played the way it’s played. Those billionaires shield their income in unrealized gains and only realize what they need at the time and nothing can be done about that.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Isn't a property tax a wealth tax on unrealized gains? Just as you don't have to liquidate your property to pay your property tax, paying 2% on every dollar $50M+ probably isn't going to require a fire sale.
And I don't know why you say it's "simply" class warfare, as if that's an epithet. It's obviously and explicitly class warfare, which is not a "simple" thing. It's the fundamental struggle to control the organizing principles of our society and economy. The war is already being waged (pretty much always has been), it's just that the wealthy have been dominating and crushing the poor and middle class for the past 40 or so years, so yeah, the poor and middle class should be ganging up on the wealthy. The current capital gains vs labor income tax structure status quo is a result of the class war. The lack of public resources available to the poor and middle class is directly a result of the wealthy running up the score in the class war. What Warren is saying is that the losing side should start shooting back. What you're saying is to basically wave the white flag and capitulate to rampant wealth inequality because the wealthy have already won the war and there's nothing we can do.
You say "the game is played the way it's played" and I'm saying the game is rigged so change the rules of the game.
This doesn't compare to property tax. You could have someone worth a hundred billion and they only have like $100 million in liquid cash. Making them pay effective capital gains on those unrealized gains is ridiculous.
Why not reduce the tax burden of businesses that pay their workers higher wages proportionately? The government can tax those wages when the workers get them. Also raise the tax burden on businesses that compensate high level employees with stock options and bonuses.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Yeah, I'm sorry, I simply don't care about the 4 Americans richer than Warren Buffet having to find a way to pay 3% of their wealth in taxes. I think that is a fair and just trade-off for, like, universal healthcare, universal childcare and tuition-free post-secondary schooling.
Those are both good ideas and should be pursued in conjunction with a wealth tax. The business taxes would be used to bring business practices in-line with a modern, progressive society while the wealth tax would be used to bring the rampant domination of the wealthy and the problem of exponential wealth inequality gap under control.
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
The idea of a wealth tax is popular. Her implementation of it, I doubt is as popular as she says it is.
I can't say I like the idea of a wealth tax. I can say I like the idea of addressing the systems in place that cause companies to disproportionately push all the money to the top of the corporate structure like an upside down pyramid and to shareholders over workers.
A wealth tax just sounds like punishing the people that make it to the top.
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
A wealth tax is popular simply because of wealth and income inequality. Otherwise no one would really care for or about it.
To me at least a wealth tax doesn't fix income inequality. It's more an attack on the people that benefit from income inequality. I'd be all for giving an insane level of tax cuts to businesses that pay more to their lower income workers and less to their higher income workers.
Raise the corporate tax rate on giant corporations to say 40-50% and then say if a certain percentage of all workers make above a certain wage we'll lower that to 10% from the 40-50%. At that point businesses are incentivized to pay workers more and they'd be crazy not to. The government can get tax on the30-40% difference when the workers are paid from their income taxes.
A wealth tax just targets the people that made it to the top and punishes them for it.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Wealth and income are different phenomena that require addressing separately. Incentivizing companies to spread their worker compensation more equitably is good, but does little to address the runaway wealth and power of the billionaire class because most wealth isn't generated by labor income. That $215B of the Waltons and the $110B of the Kochs is the problem trying to be addressed by a wealth tax. The sheer size of the wealth being hoarded in this country is a direct hindrance to democracy and social stability. The shareholder vs worker frame you mention is closer to addressing the problem, and I'm in favor of capital gains tax reform, but the obscene levels of wealth inequality need to be addressed as well.
Taxation is not punishment or theft, it's the entry cost for a functional society. If the citizens of a country are hostile to the concept of taxation because they are too atomized, fearful and greedy to understand the benefits of a society, then I would argue you don't really have a country so much as a band of lords and serfs laboring under the delusion of being a temporarily embarrassed lord. Being a "tax cheat" used to be considered a moral failing, not a sign of intelligence.
I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why the working class should be so concerned about punishing the rentier bourgeoisie who are hoarding the nation's wealth by asking them to pay 2% on their accumulated wealth. As if that those gains weren't acquired by us all. The idea that this request is somehow beyond the pale is a right-wing invention, especially when one can look throughout history to see many examples where instead of 2% of their wealth it was their heads that were confiscated. Again, if the choice is between every person in this country having access to free healthcare and university education vs Jeff Bezos' real estate portfolio going from $500M to $491M, that seems a very easy choice for me.
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
Sounds like your shifting the tax burden from corporations to labor. In that scenario, income tax being raised on workers seems very likely.
I didn't say to raise income tax on workers but if you take my pay and double it and that causes me to bump up in tax bracket and my tax rate goes up even 10% I'd be cool with that wouldn't you?
In every case if you make more money you'll pay more in taxes. If you don't create an incentive for corporations to do it then it doesn't get done. If it shifts some of the tax burden to labor so be it.