Ed school dean: Urban school reform is really about land development (not kids)

[theworldismine13]

Well, that's a little too vague, but considering that the sociology of education policy has to be part of her background, she certainly is qualified for this kind of analysis, which isn't about land development in itself, but rather, it's intrusion into education policy, which she provides with actual statistics and citations of other studies. That's why I was saying her argument merits more than a simple dismissal as mumbo jumbo.

this is why i call it mumbo jumbo its because the closing of urban schools has mostly to do with the declining population in urban areas

i cant say its a bad since we all have done it, but how can people dream about "leaving the hood" and then when the hood is empty you wonder why the schools are closing? the projects are awful places to live but then we dont understand why they get torn down?

this is the reason why schools are closing in the inner city http://grist.org/cities/poverty-moves-to-the-suburbs/ people are leaving the hood, and the reality is that its not clear that this is a bad thing and its very hard to see how this was a deliberate plan by land developers colluding with government officials, as opposed to just a normal shift in society, im just not seeing how her stats prove a conspiracy

the gentrification of urban areas can be explained by the free market and a changing society and improvements in the school system in gentrified areas can be explained by the fact that parents moving into a gentrified area are more educated

she doesnt need stats to prove her theory, what she needs is a smoking gun, a wiki leaks, a document, that shows a collusion between law enforcement, school officials and real estate developers

i dont think what we are seeing in urban areas requires a massive conspiracy to be explained and for her article to be true the conspiracy has to be massive

im more interested in economic plans and not civil rights crusades which is what i think this article basically is

 

[The Real]

this is why i call it mumbo jumbo its because the closing of urban schools has mostly to do with the declining population in urban areas

i cant say its a bad since we all have done it, but how can people dream about "leaving the hood" and then when the hood is empty you wonder why the schools are closing? the projects are awful places to live but then we dont understand why they get torn down?

this is the reason why schools are closing in the inner city http://grist.org/cities/poverty-moves-to-the-suburbs/ people are leaving the hood, and the reality is that its not clear that this is a bad thing

So your argument is that the decline in population naturally led to schools closing down. Her argument is that the decline in population is a result of gentrification, of which the school reform is actually one arm. Your causal story is the opposite of hers. We already know that Black people are moving to the suburbs en masse, but the much more plausible explanation for that move itself is that gentrification is making it impossible to live. There's no other reason masses of Black folk in embedded, longstanding Black communities like Harlem and Bed Stuy would suddenly start mass migrating.

and its very hard to see how this was a deliberate plan by land developers colluding with government officials, as opposed to just a normal shift in society, im just not seeing how her stats prove a conspiracy

the gentrification of urban areas can be explained by the free market and a changing society and improvements in the school system in gentrified areas can be explained by the fact that parents moving into a gentrified area are more educated

she doesnt need stats to prove her theory, what she needs is a smoking gun, a wiki leaks, a document, that shows a collusion between law enforcement, school officials and real estate developers

i dont think what we are seeing in urban areas requires a massive conspiracy to be explained and for her article to be true the conspiracy has to be massive

Her argument isn't that it's a conspiracy. Government collusion with businesses to revitalize areas is standard behavior, and it's not a matter of state officials and companies deliberately trying to destroy Black neighborhoods and remake them. That kind of predatory behavior is just part of their MO in that field. It's just a large-scale scenario where this is happening with a number of companies separately, but together, creating a large impact.

im more interested in economic plans and not civil rights crusades which is what i think this article basically is

Ok, but why talk about economic plans in a discussion about education reform/policy? Those are two different issues. Besides, as someone who is always talking about Black education, you should be able to see that she also has specific recommendations for Black education, including stricter standards on teachers, funding shifts, etc. That seems relevant to your worldview, and much more than a "civil rights crusade."

 

[Spin]

This sounds like a bunch of nonsense. At the end of the day people aren't going to do anything unless there is something in it for them. Many charter schools have been shown to offer a better education than run down public schools. This person could better spend their time coming up with their own school if they want to actually DO something. Booker T Washington went to the "Elites" to get money and backing for Tuskegee University. These people have to stop saying they have no influence when they're aren't even trying.

 

[The Real]

At the end of the day people aren't going to do anything unless there is something in it for them.

Or unless they have no real alternative...

 

[theworldismine13]

So your argument is that the decline in population naturally led to schools closing down. Her argument is that the decline in population is a result of gentrification, of which the school reform is actually one arm. Your causal story is the opposite of hers. We already know that Black people are moving to the suburbs en masse, but the much more plausible explanation for that move itself is that gentrification is making it impossible to live. There's no other reason masses of Black folk in embedded, longstanding Black communities like Harlem and Bed Stuy would suddenly start mass migrating.

i dont think there is one explanation, harlem, bedstuy, detroit and prince george county are all different, and the other explanation is people are leaving because of crime and lack of economic opportunities

and its not clear to me that population shifts are a bad thing, if a bunch of black people move from brooklyn to atlanta and buy cheaper property (which they have), why is that a bad thing?

Her argument isn't that it's a conspiracy. Government collusion with businesses to revitalize areas is standard behavior, and it's not a matter of state officials and companies deliberately trying to destroy Black neighborhoods and remake them. That kind of predatory behavior is just part of their MO in that field. It's just a large-scale scenario where this is happening with a number of companies separately, but together, creating a large impact.

i think those things have to be taken on case by case basis, i dont see how anybody can make broad statements about revitalization and paint them in negative light

Ok, but why talk about economic plans in a discussion about education reform/policy? Those are two different issues. Besides, as someone who is always talking about Black education, you should be able to see that she also has specific recommendations for Black education, including stricter standards on teachers, funding shifts, etc. That seems relevant to your worldview, and much more than a "civil rights crusade."

i brought up economics because of the title

 

[theworldismine13]

The New Black Migration: Home is Where the Job Is
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/its-free-country/2011/mar/25/african-american-migration-south/

 

[Blackking]

and its not clear to me that population shifts are a bad thing, if a bunch of black people move from brooklyn to atlanta and buy cheaper property (which they have), why is that a bad thing?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_vlLKA6xeU[/ame]

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Consider these facts: With a median household income of nearly $75,000, Prince George’s County is the wealthiest majority black county in the United States. Nearly 55 percent of the county’s businesses are black-owned and almost 70 percent of residents own homes, according to the U.S. Census. One of Prince George’s County’s easternmost borders is a mere six minutes from Washington, D.C., which houses the largest population of college-educated blacks in the nation. In the United States, a general rule of thumb is that communities with higher family incomes and parental levels of education have better public schools. So, why is it that black parents living in the upscale Woodmore or Fairwood estates of Prince George’s County or the tony Garden District homes up 16th Street in Washington D.C. struggle to find quality public schools for their children just like black parents in Syphax Gardens, the southwest D.C. public housing community?

@BarNone and @The Real can you guys explain this paragraph to me

Here she says that blacks in high income are struggling to find quality public schools for children. But why doesn't she just answer the question for high income whites in dc. I'm left to either imply a) whites don't send their children to pubic schools in d.c or b)only whites of low income statuses have struggling public schools.

This paragraph here confuses me because she doesn't use the article to draw side by side comparisons (or maybe i missed it? she really did lose me). I've been to pg county, got friends in pg county, but she doesn't draw a picture of pg county. She should've just used the entire article to show public school disparities by case across the nation, when income levels are equal and whites and blacks live in adjacent communities.

I seriously have NO idea about the public school infrastructure. Not one thing about the administration. Not one thing about the lesson plans/college prep. Not one thing about test scores. This article should be a part II IMO. After you've already proven that all variables remain constants. No?

 

[No1]

@BarNone and @The Real can you guys explain this paragraph to me

Here she says that blacks in high income are struggling to find quality public schools for children. But why doesn't she just answer the question for high income whites in dc. I'm left to either imply a) whites don't send their children to pubic schools in d.c or b)only whites of low income statuses have struggling public schools.

This paragraph here confuses me because she doesn't use the article to draw side by side comparisons (or maybe i missed it? she really did lose me). I've been to pg county, got friends in pg county, but she doesn't draw a picture of pg county. She should've just used the entire article to show public school disparities by case across the nation, when income levels are equal and whites and blacks live in adjacent communities.

I seriously have NO idea about the public school infrastructure. Not one thing about the administration. Not one thing about the lesson plans/college prep. Not one thing about test scores. This article should be a part II IMO. After you've already proven that all variables remain constants. No?

Well, with any op-ed you're only going to get so much of an argument. I'm sure she would do just what you're asking if given a larger canvass. I'm also not familiar with her research so I can't say for certain. But you're right, it would definitely be stronger with a direct comparison. But here, I don't even think it's really necessary. Affluent white-majority areas rarely have poor public education systems and the parents are very tied to what happens in regards to their children's education. I think she leaves that out as common knowledge that she doesn't really need to explore as much as she feels the need to point out that most urban renewal plans are directed by people in suburbia that have little ties to those individuals actually affected.

 

[rapbeats]

sounds like a bunch of BS, it looks like she took 2 different things, gentrification and schools closings, and threw some magic powder on it and voila! its all connected

of course you would be the one to state this. well put it this way. my wife is in education. my mother was in education before she retired. i had people on the inside for years. what this woman is speaking of, is common knowledge among those in education. you're not in education so you dont know what you're talking about. dont even try to debate this one with anyone. you dont know..what you're talking about.

i'll give you an example of what she said. go back up and read the stuff about mayoral control. remember i'm in L.A., CA

The mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaraigosa, wants to take control of his city's public schools. The LA Unified School District is the second largest in the nation

^that was in 2005

my mother met the guy personally before he was even running for mayor. she was still working in education. she told me then" dude is a conniver. as she called it out, i had a chance to watch him go from a semi no name. to the mayor trying to snatch up the school district. not because he wanted to make it better. he wanted access to all those public funds. in addition he wanted access to all those public contracts. schools are built, maintained, etc. the school board also buys land even prior to ever putting a school on the land. they have tons of property and land just lying around.

Villa had buddies/possible family as well, that worked in the construction business. guess who will get those contracts? doesnt matter if its a bidding system. they can make the scope of the project so large small mom and pop guys can never get to it. they will be hired on by the larger construction companies. and we know who a lot of those larger companies are. they are friends of the mayor(well former mayor we just got a new guy last week).

 

[88m3]

twimy

 

[TELL ME YA CHEESIN FAM?]

i think that is mumbo jumbo, what i see is that black leaders like this lady do no have a real economic plan for black people

just stop posting fakkit

 

[theworldismine13]

just stop posting fakkit

hmm no

even if you believe this mumbo jumbo this article says nothing about how to develop economically strong black communities, not that it has to, but if somebody is going to blast school reform and neighborhood revitalization i think you need to have something to replace it