Debate: The ACA is a Republican plan through and through (TUH's Proof vs. BarNone's Proof))

[Broke Wave]

Republican and Democrat are pretty benign terms when it comes to public policy... It's clear that the ACA has its roots in the Neo-Liberal fervor that surrounded the signing of NAFTA in the early 90's... it may have progressive intentions but it certainly is not a progressive policy or even an original idea... that being said when faced with the alternative (nothing), it's a brilliant success.

 

[DEAD7]

Checks out. My mistake.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Republican and Democrat are pretty benign terms when it comes to public policy... It's clear that the ACA has its roots in the Neo-Liberal fervor that surrounded the signing of NAFTA in the early 90's... it may have progressive intentions but it certainly is not a progressive policy or even an original idea... that being said when faced with the alternative (nothing), it's a brilliant success.

Yeah I was reading this whole pointless debate like Who cares? What major policy initiatives of the last 40 years or so were distinctly the handiwork of either party?

 

[Type Username Here]

Republican and Democrat are pretty benign terms when it comes to public policy... It's clear that the ACA has its roots in the Neo-Liberal fervor that surrounded the signing of NAFTA in the early 90's... it may have progressive intentions but it certainly is not a progressive policy or even an original idea... that being said when faced with the alternative (nothing), it's a brilliant success.

It's not a progressive policy in anyway considering it's creators were Conservatives. This is literally a conservative compromise plan. The wording, documentation and historical accounts are not up for debate. I wouldn't have a issue with it aside from the Individual mandate. There are some good tidbits in there that could have been passed without the individual mandate.

That's what bothers me the most. Literally cheering for corporate scraps that setback this country.

I know you're a smart dude, but you live in Canada and I don't really think you understand how evil these health insurance companies are. Maybe you do and I'm being unfair.

Yeah I was this whole pointless debate like Who cares? What major policy initiatives of the last 40 years or so were distinctly the handiwork of either party?

I care. I don't cosign Reaganomics.

This is what this is. The individual mandate is nothing but a forced transfer of public money to private companies who don't have the interest of the people at hear. They will increase their profits and by doing so, effectively have much more money to lobby and control elections.

The point is also to show how far right this country has come since Reagan in terms of social programs, labor unions, corporatism, and so on.

 

[DEAD7]

It's not a progressive policy in anyway considering it's creators were Conservatives.

 

[Type Username Here]

It was. Only a conservative would think the solution to corporatism is to throw more money at the corporation.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I care. I don't cosign Reaganomics.

This is what this is. The individual mandate is nothin but a forced transfer of public money to private companies who don't have the interest of the people at hear. They will increase their profits and bydoing so, effectively have much more money to lobby and control elections.

The point is also to show how far right this country has come since Reagan in terms of social programs, labor unions, corporatism, and so on.

Yeah but who cares whether the ACA is primarily born of Republicans or Democrats? Your point about how far right the country has moved nullifies the significance of the aforementioned question. We're not under any false impression that the Democratic party is liberal are we? Neoliberalism and corporatism is bipartisan.

 

[Type Username Here]

Yeah but who cares whether the ACA is primarily born of Republicans or Democrats? Your point about how far right the country has moved nullifies the significance of the aforementioned question. We're not under any false impression that the Democratic party is liberal are we? Neoliberalism and corporatism is bipartisan.

A lot of people are. You know this.

They herald this bill as if it's a bastion of progressive thought, when it is not. It's detrimental to the ultimate goal of universal healthcare in my opinion, akin to wanting green energy by driving profit gains for oil companies.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

There are some good tidbits in there that could have been passed without the individual mandate.

wrong

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/July/19/new-york-and-individual-mandate.aspx

The nosedive in health insurance prices that New York officials announced earlier this week was driven by many factors, but the most important was the individual mandate, a central component of Obamacare.

That’s because insurers are betting they can use that often reviled requirement that takes effect Jan. 1 to nag, nudge, push and prod 2.6 million uninsured New Yorkers, especially the young and healthy, to buy coverage.

What happens in New York won’t happen in the rest of the country. No one should expect premiums to drop by 50 percent anywhere else. New York is an anomaly. It’s big. It’s expensive. It’s a place where people use a lot of health care services, and there are a lot of insurers in the game. It’s also highly regulated. People who buy their own insurance can easily pay $20,000 a year for coverage; Cut that in half, and the prices are still exorbitant

But the main thing that’s different about New York is that the state passed many of the health insurance reforms that are part of Obamacare (along with some that are not) many years ago, only without an individual mandate.

“New York is like the poster child for why you need an individual mandate,” said Sabrina Corlette, a research professor at Georgetown University’s Center on Health Insurance Reform. “They implemented all the reforms without the individual mandate, and premiums just went through the roof.”

 

[tru_m.a.c]

A lot of people are. You know this.

They herald this bill as if it's a bastion of progressive thought, when it is not. It's detrimental to the ultimate goal of universal healthcare in my opinion, akin to wanting green energy by driving profit gains for oil companies.

I don't think anyone but the Obama admin hails it as progressive thought.

Middle class democrats hail it as a "finally" legislation

And its actually a step in the direction to universal healthcare

 

[Type Username Here]

wrong

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/July/19/new-york-and-individual-mandate.aspx

Of course the prices will drop, they are betting they will get more customers (as your article says and details). What I meant is that the individual mandate forces you to buy PRIVATE insurance, the companies who are directly responsible for most of what is wrong with our health care system.

The same companies that do this in New York, charging $700 for a $1 worth of saline. :

http://www.advisory.com/Daily-Brief...cret-of-salines-cost-Why-a-1-bag-can-cost-700


I have no doubt that prices will go down in a lot of places, especially liberal states. My point is that I don't trust corporations. I don't like Private prisons for this reason, along with a multitude of "market solutions" nonsense.

I don't think anyone but the Obama admin hails it as progressive thought.

Middle class democrats hail it as a "finally" legislation

And its actually a step in the direction to universal healthcare

No, it isn't. You just hope that it is. It's adding lobbying and bribing money to the pockets of corporations who have the most to lose from universal healthcare. How some of you don't understand this is beyond me.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Of course the prices will drop, they are betting they will get more customers (as your article says and details). What I meant is that the individual mandate forces you to buy PRIVATE insurance, the companies who are directly responsible for most of what is wrong with our health care system.

The same companies that do this in New York, charging $700 for a $1 worth of saline.

you do realize hospitals have to charge a price, and insurance companies agree to pay a certain percentage of the request......

Its called reimbursement for the cost of care. Insurers don't "charge."

:

http://www.advisory.com/Daily-Brief...cret-of-salines-cost-Why-a-1-bag-can-cost-700

I have no doubt that prices will go down in a lot of places, especially liberal states. My point is that I don't trust corporations. I don't like Private prisons for this reason, along with a multitude of "market solutions" nonsense.

You're still stuck on this liberal vs conservative ish. The prices will go down in states that have enacted the correct reforms prior to the bill period.

 

[Type Username Here]

you do realize hospitals have to charge a price, and insurance companies agree to pay a certain percentage of the request......

Its called reimbursement for the cost of care. Insurers don't "charge."

:

http://www.advisory.com/Daily-Brief...cret-of-salines-cost-Why-a-1-bag-can-cost-700



You're still stuck on this liberal vs conservative ish. The prices will go down in states that have enacted the correct reforms prior to the bill period.

Reimbursement for the cost of care? Only true on the outside, but behind the scenes the insurance companies in conjunction with the hospitals inflate the price of services. Why? Because it scares people into getting health insurance.

http://truecostofhealthcare.org/hospital_financial_analysis

These are evil corporations. Some of the worst on the planet.

And for one, a compromise by the Democrats would have been a single-payer system. I'm for a NHS type of system with government employees and facilities. A lot of these hospitals are right there with the worst of the insurance companies when it comes to thievery, corruption and dishonesty.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Reimbursement for the cost of care? Only true on the outside, but behind the scenes the insurance companies in conjunction with the hospitals inflate the price of services. Why? Because it scares people into getting health insurance.

http://truecostofhealthcare.org/hospital_financial_analysis

These are evil corporations. Some of the worst on the planet.

And for one, a compromise by the Democrats would have been a single-payer system. I'm for a NHS type of system with government employees and facilities. A lot of these hospitals are right there with the worst of the insurance companies when it comes to thievery, corruption and dishonesty.

what u smokin tonight breh

 

[Type Username Here]

what u smokin tonight breh

Nothing breh you? Don't usually see you defend corporations except in this case.