Debate: The ACA is a Republican plan through and through (TUH's Proof vs. BarNone's Proof))

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Been getting people around here thinking I'm talking about RomneyCare (barNone and dead7). They forgot there was a Democratic President in the 1990s.

Well, the Republicans were kind of fearful of the Clintons and their speculated healthcare proposal (prior to the midterms in 94) so a bunch of Republican proposals started coming out to serve as a more corporate alternative to what the Clintons could have potentially had in store.

Here's one:

In November, 1993, Sen. John Chafee, R-R.I., introduced what was considered to be one of the main Republican health overhaul proposals: "A bill to provide comprehensive reform of the health care system of the United States."

Titled the "Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993," it had 21 co-sponsors, including two Democrats (Sens. Boren and Kerrey). The bill, which was not debated or voted upon, was an alternative to President Bill Clinton's plan. It bears similarity to the Democratic bill passed by the Senate Dec. 24, 2009, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

Some key parts that may sound recognizable:

Title I: Basic Reforms to Expand Access to Health Insurance Coverage and to Ensure Universal Coverage - Subtitle A: Universal Access - Provides access to health insurance coverage under a qualified health plan for every citizen and lawful permanent resident of the United States.

(Sec. 1003) Establishes a program under which persons with low incomes (and who are not eligible for Medicaid) will receive vouchers to buy insurance through purchasing groups.

(Sec. 1004) Requires each employer to make available, either directly, through a purchasing group, or otherwise, enrollment in a qualified health plan to each eligible employee.


Subtitle B: Qualified General Access Plan in the Small Employer and Individual Marketplace- Requires the National Association of Insurance Commissioners to develop specific standards to implement requirements concerning: (1) guaranteed eligibility, availability, and renewability of health insurance coverage; (2) nondiscrimination based on health status; (3) benefits offered; (4) insurer financial solvency; (5) enrollment process; (6) premium rating limitations; (7) risk adjustment; and (8) consumer protection.

(Sec. 1119) Requires each qualified general access plan to: (1) establish and maintain a quality assurance program and a mediation procedures program; and (2) contain assurances of service to designated underserved areas.

(Sec. 1141) Provides for the formation of purchasing groups by individuals and small employers.

(Sec. 1161) Requires brokers or insurers to provide specified information to prospective enrollees.

(Sec. 1162) Prohibits insurers from creating improper financial incentives and from selling duplicate coverage.

Subtitle C:Qualified Health Plans in the Large Employer Marketplace - Requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in consultation with the Secretary of Labor, to establish standards for large employer plans similar to requirements applicable to small employer plans.

(Sec. 1203) Requires large employers to offer to employees at least a standard package and a catastrophic package.

(Sec. 1205) Allows two or more large employers to form purchasing groups, but not through an individual or small employer purchasing group.

(Sec. 1206) Requires a semi-annual review of each large employer plan to determine whether requirements are being met and what corrective actions need to be taken.

(Sec. 1221) Amends the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 and the Public Health Service Act to revise provisions to conform to this Act.

Subtitle D: Benefits; Benefits Commission - Requires each qualified health plan to provide a standard package and a catastrophic package. Specifies items and services to be covered.

(Sec. 1311) Establishes the Benefits Commission to develop and propose legislation that provides a clarification of covered items and services and includes specifications for cost sharing.

(Sec. 1314) Provides for congressional consideration and implementation of such legislation.

Subtitle E: State and Federal Responsibilities in Relation to Qualified Health Plans - Requires each State to establish a program to: (1) certify insured health plans; (2) disseminate information on health care coverage areas; (3) establish procedures for purchasing groups; (4) prepare information concerning plans and purchasing groups; (5) provide for a risk adjustment program, including an adjustment for differences in nonpayments among qualified insured health plans; (6) develop a binding arbitration process; and (7) specify an annual general enrollment period.

(Sec. 1421) Allows the waiver of specified requirements.

(Sec. 1431) Provides preemptions of certain State laws.

(Sec. 1441) Specifies the Federal responsibilities with respect to multi-State employer plans and in case of State defaults.

Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005. Provides an exception for any individual who is opposed for religious reasons to health plan coverage, including those who rely on healing using spiritual means through prayer alone.

Subtitle G: Definitions - Defines terms used in this Act.

Title II: Tax and Enforcement Provisions - Subtitle A: General Tax Provisions - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to exclude from an employee's gross income employer-provided coverage under a qualified health plan or employer-provided contributions to the employee's medical savings account. Includes excess employer contributions in such gross income.

continued in link below

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2010/february/23/gop-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx


This is a Republican idea. There's not debating it.
 

acri1

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I don't dispute that it's a Republican plan. Which makes it really obnoxious when Republicans go on and on about how it's "socialism".

That said I would still argue that it's better than the current system (ie. poor people are SOL). Obviously single-payer would be much better though.
 

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Been getting people around here thinking I'm talking about RomneyCare (barNone and dead7). They forgot there was a Democratic President in the 1990s.

Well, the Republicans were kind of fearful of the Clintons and their speculated healthcare proposal (prior to the midterms in 94) so a bunch of Republican proposals started coming out to serve as a more corporate alternative to what the Clintons could have potentially had in store.

Here's one:



Some key parts that may sound recognizable:



http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2010/february/23/gop-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx


This is a Republican idea. There's not debating it.

TUH, I don't what your issue is, but I've put up with you trying to personally attack me for a long time. Everyone see how childish it looks when everyone who disagrees with you is either supposedly and idiot (like you were calling everyone back around the inception of this board) or a stan. But I'm never going there with you again. I disagree with you, not get over it and deal with the substance of what I say. So let's get into it....

So let me start you off with a re-post. @acri1 you're wrong, it is not entirely a Republican plan. It has republican ideas in it. BTW, Chaffee (Rhode Island SENATOR CHAFFEE would be today's equivalent of a Bluedog Democrat).

Obamacare Isn't Romneycare, and the GOP Didn't Invent It
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Obamacare Isn't Romneycare, and the GOP Didn't Invent It
© AP

The proponents of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) have a number of talking points, the favorite of which seems to be that Obamacare is really a Republican idea. The purpose of this talking point is to create the illusion of bipartisanship and promote the idea that the GOP only wants to argue about its name.

The argument that follows the talking point is that the ACA is based on the GOP's Romneycare. Let's forget that Romney vetoed many parts of the legislation. Let's forget that the legislation was broadly expanded by Romney's Democratic successor. Let's forget that Romney distanced himself from his own plan during the Republican primaries largely because the idea was unpopular with actual Republicans. Finally, let's forget the struggles Romney had to get the nomination, introducing the question of whether he is truly reflective of the party.

Even if Romney were a bedrock Republican endorsed by all 50 states, the ACA is vastly different from what Romney actually proposed. The ACA is comprehensive coverage rather than catastrophic coverage. Romney opposed the employer-based insurance concept, whereas the ACA heavily encourages it with tax subsidies and penalizes those who do not comply. The penalties in the ACA are as much as 10 times as much as those in Romneycare. So the talking point that the ACA draws on Romneycare is very loosely defined.

The talking point is correct that the GOP has considered these ideas previously. It is virtually impossible to produce 2,000 pages of healthcare reform without touching something that has been considered by someone else. The individual mandate has roots within the Heritage Foundation and Milton Friedman. Similarly, McCain argued for a tax on healthcare plans. It is, however, a bit of a stretch to say that the ACA is a Republican idea because a specific concept out of 2,000 pages derives from a GOP platform.

It is beyond that stretch, though, to attribute a concept to Republicans when the concept is applied in the exact opposite of the intended use. Milton Friedman, a Libertarian icon, argue for an individual mandate when he worked for the Hoover Institute. In his article, Friedman argued that employer-provided healthcare benefits are a significant component in the rise of cost of healthcare. Yes, Milton Friedman envisioned an individual mandate, but it was in response to the problems caused by the employer-provided insurance market which is so strongly encouraged by the ACA.

The individual mandate for health insurance makes sense within the context of a plan that protects society. The government requires the owner of a car to own auto insurance to protect society for the negligent use of the car. Today, the government requires hospitals to treat patients regardless of ability to pay. Hence the government can justify an individual mandate for health insurance so that society can protect itself from having to pay for the "Free Riders." This is what Romney meant when he said that "A free ride on the government is not libertarian."

The ACA is 2,000 pages of law with many moving parts. Some of these parts have been talked about in the past by Republicans. That doesn't mean that the Republican Party was the genesis of the ACA. What parts derive from Republican leanings frequently promote the problems that the GOP sought to solve.
 

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The article you posted twice neglects the original plan I linked which includes EVERY major selling point of the ACA. All of them.

Read the proposal for yourself.

Chaffee could have well been a moderate Republican at the time, but you neglected to mention that he had 19 Republican co-sponsors.

The point is that no one who calls himself a liberal or a progressive should ever be heard uttering support for the individual mandate, which is just corporate welfare to one of the worst group of corporations that has ever existed in this country. It isn't a tax, and the analogy to car insurance is laughable. Something a marketing intern probably came up with.

By all means, link an article debunking Mr. Chaffee's proposal extreme similarity to the ACA.
 

acri1

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So let me start you off with a re-post. @acri1 you're wrong, it is not entirely a Republican plan. It has republican ideas in it. BTW, Chaffee (Rhode Island SENATOR CHAFFEE would be today's equivalent of a Bluedog Democrat).

Well, I didn't really mean that it was literally an exact copy of Romneycare, but like you said, the general concepts used to be supported by Republicans. It's nowhere near the socialist, far-left program the GOP portrays it as. Obama says as much himself.

 

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It's true, much of the plan looks like the very same plan Orrin Hatch and republicans revealed to combat Hillarycare. It also has similarities to Nixon's healthcare plan.

Even if you dislike the law, all this makes the idea of it being some radical socialist government takeover even more hilarious. It's the definition of a market based solution to a problem. The government gives people some money to help them buy PRIVATE INSURANCE lmao...
 
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The article also never states the year the ACA was established nor who wrote it. It just somehow popped up in Obama's hands. The sad thing is Mr. O claimed he wasn't going to force people to buy healthcare back when he was a presidential candidate and yet flip-flopped when he won.
 

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SECOND, the PPACA is consistently called basically RomneyCare for the nation (AND is does strongly resemble MA so let's look at MA), except that legislation was largely designed by Massachusetts' Democratic Congress and then much of it was vetoed by Romney. They overrode his veto and then Gov. Patrick (a Dem) implemented most of it. So if you truly believe that the Mass plan is the genesis of the ACA then calling it a Republican plan is laughable.

Six years ago today, at a majestic ceremony in Boston’s Faneuil Hall, then-Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney signed into law “An Act Providing Access to Affordable, Quality, Accountable Health Care.” Would this law be the one that finally showed America how to expand coverage and reduce costs? “I’m optimistic, but time will tell,” Romney wrote in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. “A great deal will depend on the people who implement the program.” Fatefully for Massachusetts, and for the country, the people who implemented the program were affiliated with Mitt Romney’s Democratic successor, Deval Patrick. And therein lies a story that has not been widely told.

When Romney stepped onto that stage on April 12, 2006, he received a 30-second ovation. Behind him stood Sen. Ted Kennedy, his 1994 opponent for the U.S. Senate, and Democratic leaders of the Massachusetts legislature. George W. Bush’s Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, was there. “Massachusetts is showing us a better way,” Thompson said, “one I hope policymakers in statehouses and Congress will follow to build a healthier and stronger America.”

But the bipartisan bliss didn’t last very long. Just prior to the ceremony, Romney’s aides had announced that the Governor would be vetoing several key provisions of the bill, including its employer mandate that forced all companies in the state, employing more than 10 people, to provide health coverage for their workers or pay a $295-per-person fine. Romney vetoed several other provisions of the law, including one that extended dental benefits to Medicaid patients, and another that gave certain “special status aliens” the ability to receive Medicaid benefits.

Democrats maintained their smiles on-stage, but back-stage, they fumed. Forcing employers to provide health coverage to their workers was a key component of their agenda. “I’m not happy about what he did,” House Speaker Sal DiMasi told theBoston Globe. Romney, on the other hand, considered the employer mandate to be “unnecessary and probably counterproductive.”


In the end, it didn’t matter what Romney thought about the employer mandate. The Democrats controlled 85 percent of the legislature. After the bill-signing ceremony was over, they went back to the State House and overrode each of Romney’s eight vetoes.

More crucially, as Jennifer Heldt Powell and Josh Archambault describe in a new book, The Great Experiment, it was Democrats and progressive activists who ended up implementing the Massachusetts health law, especially after Romney left office in January 2007. They took the law in a much different direction than Romney would have liked. And while Democrats have sought to credit (or blame) Romney for the passage of Obamacare, it is more accurate to say that the federal Affordable Care Act is modeled after the Democratically implemented version of the Massachusetts law, as opposed to the one that Romney had sought.

The Democratic alternatives to Romney’s proposal

The Democratic legislature, led by Senate President Robert Travaglini and House Speaker Sal DiMasi, was also working on a solution to the Medicaid problem. The House plan centered around a “pay or play” employer mandate, like the one that had been passed in 1988. Both the House and Senate plans dramatically expanded Medicaid, allowing the program to cover children in households making up to 300 percent of the federal poverty level (it had been 200 percent previously).

Simultaneously, a universal-coverage activist group called Affordable Care Today was preparing a 2006 ballot initiative, that proposed to achieve near-universal coverage by increasing the cigarette tax and imposing an employer mandate.

Sen. Kennedy got involved, in order to help the House and Senate reconcile their differences, and Romney went to work trying to reconcile his own plan to that of the Democrats. Key areas of disagreement included the Democrats’ desire to expand Medicaid and force employers to cover their workers. All three plans contained an individual mandate, requiring every Massachusetts resident to buy insurance, and a Health Connector that would allow the uninsured to buy regulated, private plans.

The problem was, if they kept haggling over these important details, they risked not passing any legislation at all, and losing the $385 million in federal funds. In addition, there was the possibility that the left-wing ballot initiative plan, with no input from the legislature or the governor, would become law.

So Democrats passed their bill in the fall of 2005, and Romney signed it—with his various vetoes—in the spring of 2006. A few months later, Deval Patrick succeeded Romney as Governor of Massachusetts.

Romney individual mandate was designed to require catastrophic insurance

Romney’s big idea was to free insurers from the state’s costly 1996 insurance mandates, allowing individuals to buy inexpensive insurance that would meet their most urgent needs. But the health law he signed in 2006 did not specify the types of plans that insurers were required to offer. “The specific definition of [minimum creditable coverage under the mandate] was left to the board of the Health Connector to decide,” recounts Josh Archambault.

Romney’s goal, with the individual mandate, was to require people to buy catastrophic insurance that would cover emergency care. Romney’s version of the mandate was designed to compensate for the effects of the federal EMTALA law, that requires hospitals to provide emergency care to everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. “Therefore,” writes Archambault, “the original 2005 legislation filed by Governor Romney required that Massachusetts residents carry, at a minimum, catastrophic medical coverage, or in lieu of such coverage, a $10,000 bond…an approach that tracked the Commonwealth’s requirement for automobile insurance coverage.”

However, the bill that emerged out of the Democratic legislature contained a different mandate. The Democratic version did not restrict the mandate to catastrophic insurance, and it replaced the bond provision with a direct fine. Furthermore, according to Archambault, when Deval Patrick assumed office, he populated the Health Connector board with progressives who favored mandating costly comprehensive insurance, instead of cheaper catastrophic coverage.

Romney favored expanded choice and cost-sharing; Patrick did not

Another example of the difference between the Romney and Democratic approaches was in the design of insurance options for middle-class individuals and small employers. “The Romney administration had envisioned an unsubsidized exchange program that provided small employers with a healthy defined contribution model,” writes Archambault. “The model’s goals were to move the current employer-based system to an individual purchase decision and encourage competition and consumerism.”

But that’s not what the Patrick administration implemented. Instead, Massachusetts’ “Commonwealth Choice” plan forced insurers to offer standardized “Gold,” “Silver,” and “Bronze” plans that were required to offer generous, comprehensive coverage, including mental health, substance abuse, rehab services, and vision care. Small businesses could only offer their employees plans from one of the three tiers, further limiting consumer choices. (This framework is also part of the federal Affordable Care Act.)
DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU

In the partially-subsidized system for lower-income individuals, the Romney plan sought to institute a degree of cost-sharing, so that individuals would have an incentive to avoid wasteful health spending. The Connector board, however, eliminated all cost sharing for individuals making less than 150 percent of the federal poverty level

Oh and in my backyard of "liberal massachusetts" where some 57% of the residents feel that the current state law can be improved, the current support for it is...

View On Massachusetts Health Care Overhaul:
- 62% of those polled said they support the 2006 law

So, like I said, let's stop playing "fukk the healthcare law because it has republican ideas in it" and talk about what in it works or doesn't work. Personally, I could care less where an idea comes from if it works. I also don't make evaluative judgments and think that I'm more of a progressive than someone else if they have an opinion that differs from mine on how to achieve a progressive ideal (though we're not even debating that). But that means a lot to many of you so I had to post that up. Now, there are a lot of reasons why I'm unsure about this law...let's talk about those... @Type Username Here I hope you don't mind the title edit.
 

Type Username Here

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I don't mind the change @BarNone

You keep referring to RomneyCare, but I'm not talking about that friend. I made that clear.

I'm talking about the handful of plans in the early/mid-90s that were written and proposed by Republicans.

This is where my argument stems from.

Personally, I could care less where an idea comes from if it works.

So, why even bother? If you like this Republican plan because you like the plan, it shouldn't matter to you. I'm assuming you're in here because you don't want to make it seem like people are supporting a Republican agenda that borders on being corporate welfare to disgusting insurance companies.
 

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Going to say it again here in this post:

The purpose of this thread is not to compare RomneyCare and ObamaCare.

Been getting people around here thinking I'm talking about RomneyCare

Literally the first line in this thread
 

No1

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Going to say it again here in this post:

The purpose of this thread is not to compare RomneyCare and ObamaCare.



Literally the first line in this thread
NOTE: The chart broke down when I posted this, it's hard to follow but I'm too lazy to fix it now.

I don't think you understand my point, RomneyCare is closer to this plan than the 1993 plan. Therefore, if you're trying to call it a Republican plan by comparing it to a Republican influenced plan that is less similar to it than the bill signed by Romney in 2005 which should not be classified by a uniquely Republican plan, then you're necessarily wrong. You don't become more authentically Republican by becoming closer to something that is less uniformly Republican. So for you to say that it is entirely a Republican plan (mind you Chaffee would be called a Blue Dog Democrat today and was elected Senator in the most reliably Blue State in the country), is just false information. On a general level it is very similar to the 1993 plan, but it institutes many cost-savings devices that are novel concepts and provides for states to develop their own single-payer plans. If we remember, the managed-competition of "Hillarycare" is a large part of why Clinton's 1993 plan failed.

The general principle of Obamacare have strong Republican influences, but the differences are in the details of how it is done and in the other attempts at cost-saving.

The Democrats' 2010 Health Reform Plan Evokes 1993 Republican Bill

Major ProvisionsSenate Bill 2009 Sen. Chafee (R) Bill 1993 Rep. Boehner (R) Bill 2009

Require Individuals To Purchase Health Insurance
(Includes Religious and/or Hardship Exemption) Yes
Yes

No (individuals without
coverage would be taxed)



Requires Employers To Offer Health Insurance To Employees
Yes (above 50 employees, must help pay for insurance costs to workers receiving tax credits
for insurance)

Yes (but no requirement to contribute to premium cost)

No

Standard Benefits Package
Yes

Yes

No

Bans Denying Medical Coverage For Pre-existing Conditions
Yes

Yes

No (establishes high risk pools)

Establish State-based Exchanges/Purchasing Groups
Yes

Yes

No

Offers Subsidies For Low-Income People To Buy Insurance
Yes

Yes

No

Long Term Care Insurance
Yes (sets up a voluntary insurance plan)

Yes (sets standards for insurance)

No

Makes Efforts To Create More Efficient Health Care System
Yes

Yes

Yes

Medicaid Expansion
Yes


No

No

Reduces Growth In Medicare Spending
Yes

Yes

No

Medical Malpractice Reform
No


Yes

Yes

Controls High Cost Health Plans
Yes (taxes on plans over $8,500 for single coverage to $23,000 for family plan)


Yes (caps tax exemption for employer-sponsored plans)

No

Prohibits Insurance Company From Cancelling Coverage
Yes

Yes

Yes

Prohibits Insurers From Setting Lifetime Spending Caps
Yes


No

Yes

Equalize Tax Treatment For Insurance Of Self-Employed
No


Yes

No

Extends Coverage To Dependents
Yes (up to age 26)


No

Yes (up to age 25)

Cost
$871 billion over 10 years

No CBO estimate

$8 billion over 10 years

Impact On Deficit
Reduces by $132 billion over 10 years

No CBO estimate

Reduces by $68 billion over 10 years

Percentage Of Americans Covered
94% by 2019

92-94% by 2005

82% by 2019




As you can see the overall outline is remarkably similar because the principles are similar (part of why Chafee could not get the traction he needed for it back then). The things listed in red are either completely different or implemented significantly differently. Most significantly of all is the Medicare expansion, whose more compulsive measures were struck down by the SCOTUS. So, no, it is not a Republican plan. It identifies many of the same problems and conceives some of the same solutions as the original Chaffee plan. But it is closer to the 2005 Mass law (I can chart that if you want). But I don't even care about all of that, I'd rather we'd just start trying to label it as either a conservative conspiracy or a liberal takeover and just call it what it is. Either way prevents us from actually talking about the substance of all of its provisions. It is a moderate plan that does a lot of good, and whose success is up in the air. I wanted an expansion of Medicare for older people that are not yet eligible for it as a test for a single-payer plan but that did not happen. This plan is not what I wanted, but let's actually deal with what is in it instead of caricatured representations. That is all.
 
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