That’s all their is to it. The Randle point forward experiment is not working.
"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread
- Thread starter DPresidential
- Start date
That’s all their is to it. The Randle point forward experiment is not working.
storyteller
Superstar
Recap is up. I’m looking at the starting line-up’s ineptitude and the bizarre way Obi Toppin continues to play less than 15 minutes a night and raging a bit here. The bench gets more benefit of tired legs.
The thing us Rj is doing other things but if Kemba and Fournier aren’t scoring their defense is so bad Right now they are literally unplayable
storyteller
Superstar
Definitely true. RJ was on the boards and good defensively at least.
storyteller
Superstar
Rokas has been killing it overseas.
Ironman
#Knickstape
KnickstapeCity
:mjpls:
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
I wasn't mad at the loss. Actually I'm more encouraged by this loss than the win over the Rockets
KnickstapeCity
:mjpls:
My nikka Big dikk JMurder. What’s going on, nikka?
storyteller
Superstar
Who is that cac?
Rokas Jokubaitis, we picked him right before we grabbed McBride in the second round.
storyteller
Superstar
Mitch out - concussion
Taj out - groin
Rose questionable - ankle
Bron out too though...suspended.
Taj out - groin
Rose questionable - ankle
Bron out too though...suspended.
Peter Popoff
AKA Petty Pimpiń..🤑
I just wanna see what the city edition and new court look like. I like the color scheme better.
Ironman
#Knickstape
La has their front court 
Julius Randle’s ineffective post-ups, RJ Barrett’s shooting woes, Knicks’ up-and-down defense
By Fred Katz 48m ago
3
When you cover the NBA and the Knicks, ideas about shot selection and low-post positioning pop into your head at the strangest hours of the day.
Here are some that have been on my mind lately:
Randle’s late-game post-ups
Even after a 109-103 loss, the Knicks could justify departing Chicago on Sunday with positive thoughts.
The starters played possibly their best stretch of the season at the beginning of the third quarter. They outscored the Bulls, 29-21, in the period. Sure, the team faltered in the fourth, but it also was the second night of a back-to-back and the Bulls ended the evening with the best record in the Eastern Conference. And the good vibes, even for a 9-8 team that’s dropped seven of 11, don’t have to end there.
When Julius Randle dominates, the Knicks offense looks like a different beast. He dropped 34 points and sank 13 of 19 shots. He attacked the rim. He dominated the third quarter when Kemba Walker assumed more ballhandling opportunities than usual, which helped Randle get downhill.
But there is one nitpick, which is worth mentioning, if only because it’s been a theme in the past.
His post-ups weren’t as effective as they could have been, mostly because of how they started. Randle catches an inordinate amount of entry passes too far away from the hoop, in areas where even the best low-post behemoths struggle to score. His size advantage is not nearly as useful when he’s 15 or 18 feet from the basket.
The Knicks returned to old reliable in a tight fourth quarter, using Randle to set screens and then getting him the ball in the post against smaller players. Chicago played a particularly tiny lineup. At one point, 6-foot-6 DeMar DeRozan was the tallest Bulls player on the court.
Click here to see the best example of Randle getting a smaller player on him and then not attempting to back his man to the block until after he receives a pass, which is often too late, as it was on this possession. The first rule of butt-shoving is that it’s more effortless with free hands. Randle sets a screen for Derrick Rose, pulling Alex Caruso onto him, but look at how far out he is when he catches this entry:
He ends up passing the rock back out to reset. But by the time Alec Burks sends it back to him, there is barely any time remaining in the possession, and Caruso has pushed him even further away from the hoop.
He ends up trying a stepback (the exact type of shot that allows Caruso to use his quickness), not creating enough space and then giving it up just before the shot clock expires.
First of all, props to Caruso, who is making a serious NBA All-Defense case with his play this season. He bothered Randle all game. Sometimes, hyper-aggressive smalls can be the perfect remedy for barreling big men. Caruso, who is a physical guard, can bother Randle-types with a low center of gravity and active hands. But possessions like this from Randle, whether they came after switches or not, were a theme during the final period.
The Bulls were aggressive when shorter players got stuck on him all night. They fronted him. They pushed him. But Randle was content to catch the ball far from the hoop.
Maybe I’m underestimating how exhausting it must be to take 19 shots against a pesky NBA defense. Randle can’t bully everyone all the time. And certainly, he reinforced himself as a bulldozer in Chicago. He was the Knicks’ best player Sunday, and it wasn’t close. But the standard doesn’t have to be heading to the block all the time or never.
On key possessions late in games, the Knicks are better off if Randle makes a greater effort to catch those passes on the block. The point of these post-ups is to create easy buckets either down low or off passes because the opponent feels compelled to double-team. But no one is doubling from the paint, and facing up against Caruso — no matter his height — is not anywhere near an easy bucket. On nights when the team runs much of its crunch-time offense through him, a little more oomph before Randle catches the ball would help.
By Fred Katz 48m ago
When you cover the NBA and the Knicks, ideas about shot selection and low-post positioning pop into your head at the strangest hours of the day.
Here are some that have been on my mind lately:
Randle’s late-game post-ups
Even after a 109-103 loss, the Knicks could justify departing Chicago on Sunday with positive thoughts.
The starters played possibly their best stretch of the season at the beginning of the third quarter. They outscored the Bulls, 29-21, in the period. Sure, the team faltered in the fourth, but it also was the second night of a back-to-back and the Bulls ended the evening with the best record in the Eastern Conference. And the good vibes, even for a 9-8 team that’s dropped seven of 11, don’t have to end there.
When Julius Randle dominates, the Knicks offense looks like a different beast. He dropped 34 points and sank 13 of 19 shots. He attacked the rim. He dominated the third quarter when Kemba Walker assumed more ballhandling opportunities than usual, which helped Randle get downhill.
But there is one nitpick, which is worth mentioning, if only because it’s been a theme in the past.
His post-ups weren’t as effective as they could have been, mostly because of how they started. Randle catches an inordinate amount of entry passes too far away from the hoop, in areas where even the best low-post behemoths struggle to score. His size advantage is not nearly as useful when he’s 15 or 18 feet from the basket.
The Knicks returned to old reliable in a tight fourth quarter, using Randle to set screens and then getting him the ball in the post against smaller players. Chicago played a particularly tiny lineup. At one point, 6-foot-6 DeMar DeRozan was the tallest Bulls player on the court.
Click here to see the best example of Randle getting a smaller player on him and then not attempting to back his man to the block until after he receives a pass, which is often too late, as it was on this possession. The first rule of butt-shoving is that it’s more effortless with free hands. Randle sets a screen for Derrick Rose, pulling Alex Caruso onto him, but look at how far out he is when he catches this entry:
He ends up passing the rock back out to reset. But by the time Alec Burks sends it back to him, there is barely any time remaining in the possession, and Caruso has pushed him even further away from the hoop.
He ends up trying a stepback (the exact type of shot that allows Caruso to use his quickness), not creating enough space and then giving it up just before the shot clock expires.
First of all, props to Caruso, who is making a serious NBA All-Defense case with his play this season. He bothered Randle all game. Sometimes, hyper-aggressive smalls can be the perfect remedy for barreling big men. Caruso, who is a physical guard, can bother Randle-types with a low center of gravity and active hands. But possessions like this from Randle, whether they came after switches or not, were a theme during the final period.
The Bulls were aggressive when shorter players got stuck on him all night. They fronted him. They pushed him. But Randle was content to catch the ball far from the hoop.
Maybe I’m underestimating how exhausting it must be to take 19 shots against a pesky NBA defense. Randle can’t bully everyone all the time. And certainly, he reinforced himself as a bulldozer in Chicago. He was the Knicks’ best player Sunday, and it wasn’t close. But the standard doesn’t have to be heading to the block all the time or never.
On key possessions late in games, the Knicks are better off if Randle makes a greater effort to catch those passes on the block. The point of these post-ups is to create easy buckets either down low or off passes because the opponent feels compelled to double-team. But no one is doubling from the paint, and facing up against Caruso — no matter his height — is not anywhere near an easy bucket. On nights when the team runs much of its crunch-time offense through him, a little more oomph before Randle catches the ball would help.
Barrett’s shooting slump
Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau has a habit stereotypical of most coaches. Ask him about a player going through a slump, and he’ll quickly remind the questioner that someone can play well without shooting well. But what’s going on with RJ Barrett is not normal missing.
Barrett’s streak is bordering on historic, depending on how you define that word.
He’s shot 40 percent or worse while taking eight-or-more shots in 10 consecutive games, tying him for the seventh-longest streak in NBA history since 1946, according to Basketball-Reference.
Trevor Ariza and Kemba Walker, both of whom did this in 2014, are the only two active players with longer streaks. Alvin Williams had an 11-game streak in 2002, and three legends we all surely remember — Woody Sauldsberry, Slater Martin and Joe Graboski — all surpassed 10 games in 1958.
(What the heck was going on in 1958?! I know field-goal percentages were lower then, but this didn’t happen in 1956 or ’57 or ’59. Did Sputnik 3 annihilate everyone’s jumper?)
Ariza has the record with 16 straight games.
Yes, the markers (40 percent shooting or worse; eight or more field-goal attempts) are a tad arbitrary. But they still paint a picture: Barrett is missing shots at an alarming rate. He’s shooting 31 percent from the field and 21 percent from deep over these 10 games, which flipped the narrative just as he looked like he was getting ready to take over the NBA with breakout performances against the Bulls, Pelicans and Raptors, a streak that included a career-high 35-point night in New Orleans.
The shot selection hasn’t altered much, and he’s not forcing inorganic jumpers. They’re just not going in. The Knicks will bet that changes and chances are they’ll be right. But still, what a strange, strange stretch from a promising 21-year-old who looked like he was about to hit a new level just a few weeks ago.
Rim defense is back
Let’s move on to a positive. Even with Nerlens Noel out for most of the season, Mitchell Robinson sustaining various bang-ups that have removed him from the lineup and Taj Gibson now dealing with his recent groin injury, the Knicks are once again the best team in the NBA defending near the basket.
Opponents are shooting only 56.9 percent at the rim, tops in the league by a mile, according to Cleaning The Glass, which eliminates garbage-time possessions.
“Defensive field-goal percentage is the big one to me,” Thibodeau said. “Guarding the paint and you got to get in and fire out and challenge the shot.”
So, amidst the injuries, who is there to credit? Gibson has deterred ballhandlers all season. There’s an argument he’s been their most valuable or at least their most consistent defender. Both he and Noel are allowing less than 50 percent shooting on layups and dunks they contest, placing each of them in the NBA’s top 10.
But there’s also Thibodeau’s philosophy, the same one that leaves him with one of the Knicks’ three conventional centers almost always on the floor. He builds his defenses from the inside out. New York often packs the paint. Defenders who line the perimeter are free to help off shooters once invaders infiltrate the middle, part of the reason this team is allowing so many good looks from 3.
Defensive flaws remain, though the Knicks have been stingier lately. Cleaning the Glass ranks them 17th in points allowed per possession. They may be swatting away layups and dunks, but they’re also giving up too many of them. The 3-point and transition defense have caused trouble.
Yet, they are accomplishing their top priority. Once opponents get to the hoop, they’ve been the league’s thriftiest group.
It all evens out
When defending the paint is a priority, that risks leaving the perimeter open. The Knicks have learned that lesson the hard way this season. The 3-point arc is often what’s killed their defense. But lately, at least their bad luck is starting to dissipate.
Remember during the early part of the season, when role players were bombarding the Knicks with a never-ending stream of 3-pointers? Pat Connaughton, Myles Turner and others approached career nights. Well, the expected has occurred over the past five games: teams are finally missing more unguarded 3s against them.
The Knicks have given up too many easy looks, but opponents also were shooting 42.6 percent on wide-open 3-pointers through the season’s first 12 games, according to Second Spectrum. That was the highest percentage in the league. It caught my attention right away as an inevitable and easy fix. Wide-open 3s are, by definition, wide open — meaning there is no way for a defense to guard them well. Usually, that percentage is bound to even out over the long haul.
That’s what has happened over the last five games.
Knicks opponents are shooting only 35.6 percent on wide-open 3s over that time, a significant drop. The Knicks are giving up fewer unguarded looks, too. They allowed the most wide-open 3s in the league over the season’s first 12 games.
They’ve struggled for other reasons. The offense isn’t as cohesive as it was in October. Barrett can’t make a shot. Evan Fournier can’t find a way to play late in games. And the defense is imperfect. But Knicks opponents were due for this regression, and it’s happened over the last week and a half.
(Photo of Julius Randle: Patrick McDermott / Getty Images)
Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau has a habit stereotypical of most coaches. Ask him about a player going through a slump, and he’ll quickly remind the questioner that someone can play well without shooting well. But what’s going on with RJ Barrett is not normal missing.
Barrett’s streak is bordering on historic, depending on how you define that word.
He’s shot 40 percent or worse while taking eight-or-more shots in 10 consecutive games, tying him for the seventh-longest streak in NBA history since 1946, according to Basketball-Reference.
Trevor Ariza and Kemba Walker, both of whom did this in 2014, are the only two active players with longer streaks. Alvin Williams had an 11-game streak in 2002, and three legends we all surely remember — Woody Sauldsberry, Slater Martin and Joe Graboski — all surpassed 10 games in 1958.
(What the heck was going on in 1958?! I know field-goal percentages were lower then, but this didn’t happen in 1956 or ’57 or ’59. Did Sputnik 3 annihilate everyone’s jumper?)
Ariza has the record with 16 straight games.
Yes, the markers (40 percent shooting or worse; eight or more field-goal attempts) are a tad arbitrary. But they still paint a picture: Barrett is missing shots at an alarming rate. He’s shooting 31 percent from the field and 21 percent from deep over these 10 games, which flipped the narrative just as he looked like he was getting ready to take over the NBA with breakout performances against the Bulls, Pelicans and Raptors, a streak that included a career-high 35-point night in New Orleans.
The shot selection hasn’t altered much, and he’s not forcing inorganic jumpers. They’re just not going in. The Knicks will bet that changes and chances are they’ll be right. But still, what a strange, strange stretch from a promising 21-year-old who looked like he was about to hit a new level just a few weeks ago.
Rim defense is back
Let’s move on to a positive. Even with Nerlens Noel out for most of the season, Mitchell Robinson sustaining various bang-ups that have removed him from the lineup and Taj Gibson now dealing with his recent groin injury, the Knicks are once again the best team in the NBA defending near the basket.
Opponents are shooting only 56.9 percent at the rim, tops in the league by a mile, according to Cleaning The Glass, which eliminates garbage-time possessions.
“Defensive field-goal percentage is the big one to me,” Thibodeau said. “Guarding the paint and you got to get in and fire out and challenge the shot.”
So, amidst the injuries, who is there to credit? Gibson has deterred ballhandlers all season. There’s an argument he’s been their most valuable or at least their most consistent defender. Both he and Noel are allowing less than 50 percent shooting on layups and dunks they contest, placing each of them in the NBA’s top 10.
But there’s also Thibodeau’s philosophy, the same one that leaves him with one of the Knicks’ three conventional centers almost always on the floor. He builds his defenses from the inside out. New York often packs the paint. Defenders who line the perimeter are free to help off shooters once invaders infiltrate the middle, part of the reason this team is allowing so many good looks from 3.
Defensive flaws remain, though the Knicks have been stingier lately. Cleaning the Glass ranks them 17th in points allowed per possession. They may be swatting away layups and dunks, but they’re also giving up too many of them. The 3-point and transition defense have caused trouble.
Yet, they are accomplishing their top priority. Once opponents get to the hoop, they’ve been the league’s thriftiest group.
It all evens out
When defending the paint is a priority, that risks leaving the perimeter open. The Knicks have learned that lesson the hard way this season. The 3-point arc is often what’s killed their defense. But lately, at least their bad luck is starting to dissipate.
Remember during the early part of the season, when role players were bombarding the Knicks with a never-ending stream of 3-pointers? Pat Connaughton, Myles Turner and others approached career nights. Well, the expected has occurred over the past five games: teams are finally missing more unguarded 3s against them.
The Knicks have given up too many easy looks, but opponents also were shooting 42.6 percent on wide-open 3-pointers through the season’s first 12 games, according to Second Spectrum. That was the highest percentage in the league. It caught my attention right away as an inevitable and easy fix. Wide-open 3s are, by definition, wide open — meaning there is no way for a defense to guard them well. Usually, that percentage is bound to even out over the long haul.
That’s what has happened over the last five games.
Knicks opponents are shooting only 35.6 percent on wide-open 3s over that time, a significant drop. The Knicks are giving up fewer unguarded looks, too. They allowed the most wide-open 3s in the league over the season’s first 12 games.
They’ve struggled for other reasons. The offense isn’t as cohesive as it was in October. Barrett can’t make a shot. Evan Fournier can’t find a way to play late in games. And the defense is imperfect. But Knicks opponents were due for this regression, and it’s happened over the last week and a half.
(Photo of Julius Randle: Patrick McDermott / Getty Images)
Julius Randle's ineffective post-ups, RJ Barrett's shooting woes, Knicks' up-and-down defense – The Athletic