Complete archive of Muhammad Speaks (forerunner to The Final Call)

[motion order]

The third sentence reads "Malcolm X, national representative of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad"

I never said he wasn't

Is it a coincidence that Min. Farrakhan was also appointed as leader of the mosque in NYC, and given the title of National Representative of Elijah Muhammad?

I don't understand this question

The position/rank of both titles are of huge importance.

I never said they weren't, I just put them in their proper perspective.

If you do a search of the archives of the publication, I believe that they are the only two men listed with that title.

I did the same search before my last post. I stand by my last post.

*The late Khalid Muhammad was appointed to head that NYC mosque years later. It was clearly a prominent position within the organization

Once again, I just put those titles in there proper perspectives. The fact that you're naming 3 out of the 7 Naion of Islam figures that everyone knows kind of proves my point. Malcolm (Farrakhan and Khalid for that matter) had contemporaries that don't have his level of fame, but were just as crucial and had just as much impact. Mainstream media and certain historians choose to canonize Malcolm for whatever agenda they're trying to push. Malcolm was no more important than dozens of others from the Nation of Islam that are nameless to those that never dug deeper.

 

[cheek100]

Too bad it became nothing more than an Islamic version of The National Enquirer.​

So gossip and lies ease off the gas

 

[Michael's Black Son]

 

[get these nets]

I never said he wasn't

I don't understand this question

I never said they weren't, I just put them in their proper perspective.

I did the same search before my last post. I stand by my last post.

Once again, I just put those titles in there proper perspectives. The fact that you're naming 3 out of the 7 Naion of Islam figures that everyone knows kind of proves my point. Malcolm (Farrakhan and Khalid for that matter) had contemporaries that don't have his level of fame, but were just as crucial and had just as much impact. Mainstream media and certain historians choose to canonize Malcolm for whatever agenda they're trying to push. Malcolm was no more important than dozens of others from the Nation of Islam that are nameless to those that never dug deeper.

You're not keeping it real here and are shifting goal posts. In the past you told me that I was making unfounded, uninformed statements about the NOI.

Now, their own publication supports my previous comments about Malcolm's singular status in the organization. He wasn't A national spokesman(as in one of many), he was THE national representative of T.H.E.M. The same position that Min. Farrakhan was hand selected to assume later.
There are no hidden figures, or obscure unknown NOI members who attained that rank under T.H.E.M., just those two men.

Trying to downplay Malcolm's role when he was in the Nation is revisionism.

Trying to downplay the significance of him being the leader of the NYC mosque, or how prominent that mosque was/is is revisionism.

 

[motion order]

You're not keeping it real here and are shifting goal posts.

No, you just have a hard head.

In the past you told me that I was making unfounded, uninformed statements about the NOI.

I dealing with this thread only right now.

There are no hidden figures, or obscure unknown NOI members who attained that rank under T.H.E.M., just those two men.

I said there were a select few that spoke on the National radio broadcast, therefore they were National Spokesmen. I said I did the same search you did, and had the same result. The information came from someone that knows more about the subject than either of us. Take it or let it alone.

Trying to downplay Malcolm's role when he was in the Nation is revisionism.

Trying to downplay the significance of him being the leader of the NYC mosque, or how prominent that mosque was/is is revisionism.

I'm putting into perspective how the organization is actually structured. The fact that you're referring to him as the leader of a Mosque shows you have no perspective, and you don't care to learn. You're looking at it as if I'm downplaying Malcolm, instead of me paying homage to those that most have never heard of. Like I said, you're fixated on what mainstream history has made Malcolm out to be, and care nothing about any real substantive history of the Nation of Islam.

 

[get these nets]

No, you just have a hard head.

I dealing with this thread only right now.

I said there were a select few that spoke on the National radio broadcast, therefore they were National Spokesmen. I said I did the same search you did, and had the same result. The information came from someone that knows more about the subject than either of us. Take it or let it alone.

I'm putting into perspective how the organization is actually structured. The fact that you're referring to him as the leader of a Mosque shows you have no perspective, and you don't care to learn. You're looking at it as if I'm downplaying Malcolm, instead of me paying homage to those that most have never heard of. Like I said, you're fixated on what mainstream history has made Malcolm out to be, and care nothing about any real substantive history of the Nation of Islam.

Will restate what I've said before. I agree with your take about the way mainstream media outlets report the history of the NOI, and Malcolm's time inside the organization.

These archives, from the organization itself, confirm the positions that Elijah Muhammad himself placed Malcolm in. Min. Farrakhan's eventual ascension to heading the NOI after having been selected to the same positions by the same leader, seems to point to the rank that Malcolm had within the hierarchy.
The "person with more insider knowledge than either of us" clearly didn't have more insight than Elijah Muhammad, who personally appointed those TWO men out of all the ministers within the organization.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Will restate what I've said before. I agree with your take about the way mainstream media outlets report the history of the NOI, and Malcolm's time inside the organization.

These archives, from the organization itself, confirm the positions that Elijah Muhammad himself placed Malcolm in. Min. Farrakhan's eventual ascension to heading the NOI after having been selected to the same positions by the same leader, seems to point to the rank that Malcolm had within the hierarchy.
The "person with more insider knowledge than either of us" clearly didn't have more insight than Elijah Muhammad, who personally appointed those TWO men out of all the ministers within the organization.

I believe what @motion order is trying to say is.... No one is casting doubt on the importance of the position of "national spokesman". But we are saying that "national spokesman" doesn't mean that you are "second in command".

For instance, Jen Psaki is President Biden's "national spokeswoman". But no one would dare say that means she's second in command for the presidency.

Malcolm was a good speaker, just as Farrakhan is a good speaker. But does that mean you have great leadership qualities?

My opinion of Farrakhan is that if you look at the growth and progress of the Nation of Islam when Elijah Muhammad was the leader, it was off the charts. Farrakhan hasn't done even a fraction of what Elijah Muhammad did as the leader of the Nation of Islam.

Why? Because being a "national spokesman" doesn't translate into being a "good leader". It would have been the same with Malcolm in my opinion.

 

[get these nets]

I believe what @motion order is trying to say is.... No one is casting doubt on the importance of the position of "national spokesman". But we are saying that "national spokesman" doesn't mean that you are "second in command".

For instance, Jen Psaki is President Biden's "national spokeswoman". But no one would dare say that means she's second in command for the presidency.

Malcolm was a good speaker, just as Farrakhan is a good speaker. But does that mean you have great leadership qualities?

My opinion of Farrakhan is that if you look at the growth and progress of the Nation of Islam when Elijah Muhammad was the leader, it was off the charts. Farrakhan hasn't done even a fraction of what Elijah Muhammad did as the leader of the Nation of Islam.

Why? Because being a "national spokesman" doesn't translate into being a "good leader". It would have been the same with Malcolm in my opinion.

Elijah Muhammad designated Farrakhan as his national representative, not spokesman. The title seems to indicate that it meant rep. to those outside and inside the organization.
I pointed out that it was no coincidence that the man hand selected as national rep. was the one who revived and headed the NOI after Muhammad passed away. Seems to have been a grooming position.
Malcolm pointed out that resentment towards him, and his "title" is what set the stage for the internal politics that drove him out of the organization.
He clearly broke direct order by making public comments about JFK's assassination. He was set to suffer the penalty for that disobedience as per their internal rules. Those who resented his "rank" saw it as an opening to oust him from the organization, according to him. And he was silenced and effectively moved out.

*None of Elijah Muhammad's spiritual sons should be compared to him.

The thing is, the FBI and CIA didn't follow and try to sabotage Malcolm because he could deliver great speeches. Those organizations and interests sought to derail or silence leaders who they viewed as threats to the system. Malcolm's domestic and international ties and actions , post-NOI are documented. Before he got a chance to put some of his plans in action, he was killed.

Min. Farrakhan has been a powerful leader, and has expanded the NOI over the decades despite targeted interference by alphabet organizations and media outlets.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Elijah Muhammad designated Farrakhan as his national representative, not spokesman. The title seems to indicate that it meant rep. to those outside and inside the organization.
I pointed out that it was no coincidence that the man hand selected as national rep. was the one who revived and headed the NOI after Muhammad passed away. Seems to have been a grooming position.
Malcolm pointed out that resentment towards him, and his "title" is what set the stage for the internal politics that drove him out of the organization.
He clearly broke direct order by making public comments about JFK's assassination. He was set to suffer the penalty for that disobedience as per their internal rules. Those who resented his "rank" saw it as an opening to oust him from the organization, according to him. And he was silenced and effectively moved out.

Farrakhan didn't revive the Nation of Islam. At best it's the church of Farrakhan, and I don't say that lightly. If you read those Muhammad Speaks in the OP and actually look through what the NOI was about and what they were doing during the time of Elijah Muhammad, what Farrakhan is doing ain't even coming close to that.

With that being said, I don't put much stock in Malcolm's talk of 'resentment' due to the fact that he had an axe to grind. He would have said any and everything (and he did).

Malcolm was sat down for one reason and one reason alone: Elijah Muhammad commanded his ministers to not speak on JFK's assassination. Malcolm disobeyed a direct order and that was the beginning of the end for him in the NOI. Most people who were punished for this subordinance in the NOI took their punishment on the chin cause they knew they deserved it. They fulfilled the terms of the punishment and then everything was good afterwards. For instance, Muhammad Ali disobeyed Elijah Muhammad and received punishment for it. He took his punishment on the chin because he knew he deserved it.

Malcolm on the other hand, was egotistical and thought he should be in charge when literally the only quality he had was that he was a great speaker, which again doesn't translate to leadership abilities. And when Elijah Muhammad sat him down and gave him his punishment as anybody else in the Nation of Islam would have gotten had they disobeyed... he left because he was mad and his ego couldn't take it.

 

[get these nets]

@Neo The Resurrected ONE

Added more to the last reply.

 

[motion order]

I believe what @motion order is trying to say is.... No one is casting doubt on the importance of the position of "national spokesman" . But we are saying that "national spokesman" doesn't mean that you are "second in command".

What I'm saying is, he made a thread about the Muhammad Speaks Newspaper, then felt the need to highlight Malcolm, which is typically done as if he is a stand alone figure. He's dropping well known names, and using some faulty inductive reasoning to justify what he wants Malcolm to be with respect to the organization. I named a Minister in the city of Chicago, and a Brother that was the Minister in Atlanta then Philadelphia, and since they're not famous enough for him, this is how he views them:

hidden figures...obscure unknown NOI members

It's about historical popularity to him, not the actual facts of the organization. If he actually spent some time just skimming through the paper's archives, it would be obvious that one can't get a true idea of the history from Spike Lee or Michael Mann or the Epix Network.

 

[motion order]

How many National Spokesmen were there?

As the only National Spokesman that we were aware of

Is it a coincidence that Min. Farrakhan was...given the title of National Representative of Elijah Muhammad?
I believe that they are the only two men listed with that title.

Now, their own publication supports my previous comments about Malcolm's singular status in the organization. He wasn't A national spokesman(as in one of many), he was THE national representative of T.H.E.M. The same position that Min. Farrakhan was hand selected to assume later.
There are no hidden figures, or obscure unknown NOI members who attained that rank under T.H.E.M., just those two men.

The "person with more insider knowledge than either of us" clearly didn't have more insight than Elijah Muhammad, who personally appointed those TWO men out of all the ministers within the organization.

1:46 into the video, "This is another National Representative of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad...



I don't know why you thought I was just making this up.

 

[Neuromancer]

Subs.

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

1:46 into the video, "This is another National Representative of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad...



I don't know why you thought I was just making this up.

1975 Saviours Day, the Ministers and representatives of Elijah Muhammad on the Podium were amongst the Generals who who helped disintegrate and change the face of the original NOI!
Also, Farrakhan was so sharp back then and throughout the decades to come..Great orator!