I really dont know why Type Username Here would quote my name, I thought by now my views were quite clear, but I guess not.
I see, alot of trolls here, alot of outright stupid posters, and then I see well intentioned posters who suffer from a misunderstanding. I can count on one hand the number of quality posters who can speak on the topic of Islam, both favourably and critically.
Im just gonna rant here on my views on Islam very briefly and leave it at that. This topic is becoming very redundant.
Islam
Islam, like every other religion, is a socio-political movement that is best understood by the context in which it emerged. Like every other religion, as time passes, and as we move further and further away from the contextual basis upon which the religion was created, the flaws in the religion become apparent and its increasing incompatibility with the society we live in today becomes evident.
Islam is no different. Its strengths and weaknesses are a direct reflection of the 7th century society in which it emerged.
Islam's failures today
1500 Years after the birth of Christianity, its societies underwent the changes that led to the creation of secular societies based on humanist thinking. 1500 years after the birth of Islam is the next century. So I dont see anything alarming about the fact that Islam has yet to undergo its own "renaissance" today. It will come naturally. All religious societies will naturally head towards a more secular path.
This is my belief. The single greatest impediment to any radical change within the Islamic world does not come from the internal. It comes from the external. Remember when Obama got into a hoopla when he made those comments about people clinging to their religion? He was on the mark with that statement.
The religiousity of todays Muslim, and todays Islamic society is almost unprecedented. But why? Why are there more countries governed or semi governed by Sharia Law today than 5 decades ago? Why was Karachi, Kabul, Tehran, Cairo, Baghdad etc all more liberal 5 decades ago than it is today?
The answer is clear. Religion naturally disappears, but when an external enemy who happens to be of a different religion (especially one with which your religion has historical animosity) appears, and attacks your community, your community strengthens its identification with that one marker that distinguishes you from "them", which is religion.
It doesnt help that Islam specifically teaches its followers, that non believers will always hate them for their beliefs and seek to persecute them on account of their faith, and lo and behold, today we see (and have seen for the last 2-3 centuries) attacks, persecution and oppression of Islamic countries and societies. This hostility naturally reinforces the religiousity of the people.
In my humble opinion, its no coincidence that the European renaissance and reformation took place around the same time that the Ottoman empire, the Islamic threat from the east, started to stagnate and weaken. In the absence of the external Islamic threat, the Christian societies were free to start "attacking" its own faith by questioning it.
I always come across Muslims who passionately state that the West is at war with Islam. And I tell, nah it aint. It may be at war with Muslim countries for political and economic reasons, but the West will never be at war with Islam. The West needs Islam, it needs a more religious Muslim world, because a Muslim world that sheds Islam will progress towards the values and principles that made the West prosperous and strong. The West loves the fact that Muslims are more concerned with who a biitch is fukking than discourse and discussion on economics, political freedoms and societal emancipation.
The track record of America this past century proves this. Americas fingerprints are over every facet of Islamic fundementalism.
Islam and Racism
The problem with SOHH is that alot of people here got their introduction to Islam through 2 planes on 9/11. As a result, theyve been sucked into a pre existing narrative, which excuses them from having semblance of independent critical thinking.
I would never come into a thread that offers a theological critique of Islam and religion in general, because I adhere to that philosophy. I am not a Muslim. I am a non believer. I can never never never again be a Muslim or adherent of any faith. So I could never disagree with a theological critique of Islam.
But we dont get that on SOHH, which is a shame because I enjoy critiques of Islam, it simply bolsters my own convictions. What we see on this forum is really shallow attacks on Islam, that I cant agree with, not because of an inherent love for Islam, but because of an inherent love for logic and reasoning.
Take for example, the critique of Islam as racist. Not a single person on this site has demonstrated that Islam is racist. You cant point to a single Quranic scripture, a single quote of the Prophet, a single action of the Prophet, a single reliable Hadith or a single precept of Islamic Shariah law that has an iota of racism to it.
So what we see instead is, references to various Islamic empires/kingdoms/political entities that had a racist policy, or conducted themselves in a racist manner. Which is fine, if the issue was "Can a Muslim be racist?". But thats not the discussion, because it goes without saying that Muslims, like any other type of people, sucumb to human nature, which is inherently greedy and tribalistic.
So yes, SOME Islamic political entities, discriminated against Blacks lets say, or enslaved them and castrated them. Well, some Islamic political entities did the same against White people. The Ottomans created an entire sub class of society made up entirely of White Balkan slaves turned political/military elite.
In fact, if one analyzes Islamic history, one could argue that more so than anyother people, it was the Turkic people who were the most enslaved. Ironically, these same Turkic people went from slave to masters, and commanded and created some of the greatest empires known to man.
Arabism=Islam?
The Arabs created Islam and led it for 2 centuries. After the sack of Baghdad by Halaku Khan, the Arabs were a non factor in Islam until arguably the British assisted rise of the Wahabi Arabs. For the next thousand years after the fall of the Abassids, Turkic, Persian and Indian communties were the vanguards of Islam.
These very same Turks were racist themselves against all others who werent Turkic. Ghaznavids, Mamluks, Seljuks, Ottomans, Moghuls, Timurids etc all led by a Turkic elite. Why do you think the Afghans resisted the Moghuls, or the Arabs resisted and overthrew the Ottomans.
Is this because Islam is racist? No, because Muslims, like any other human, is as Rousseau said, a "political animal", naturally greedy, power hungry and tribalistic.
How come Turkey was the only Islamic country who emerged from the great Wars as a secular country? It was the only country that managed its territorial integrity and prevented external attack, oppression and interference (to a certain extent).
Patriarchal tribal rural societies, which make up a significant chunk of the Islamic world, changes not by people all of a sudden abandoning their religion or due to external interference.
They change when they industrialize, when they urbanize, when this process creates new societal relationships, as families move into the city away from their extended clans in the village, away from the sway of religious authorities in the countryside. As they move into urban centres, they have less children as they dont need 14 sons to till the soil anymore. Men and women interact more in urban settings then they do in isolated clusters of communities in the countryside.
Increased industrialization requires workers, men and women. A women develops an economic value, which means shes no longer something to fukk and breed with. An economically empowered woman and man demand political empowerment. Unions are created, regulations are implemented regarding these workers and their rights. Economic class status over powers tribal identities which weaken.
Education increases as a more skilled workforce is needed to maintain these economic gains, a middle class emerges with purchasing power. The birth of the nuclear family. Increased education brings increased awareness of self.
The idea of a nation state, of a national identity steps forward to trump tribal and communal identities.
This is a process that took Europe centuries to accomplish. Itll take just as long in the Islamic world, but it wont happen when every 4 fukking years, the Empire decides to carpet bomb the shiit out of the place, because when that happens we all go back to square one. And re start the process, because the process will be restarted, its a natural path, a path to secularism and progress.
cot damn twism again.....Hold up, b. You're married and you're telling another married man about how you get so much more puzzy than him....riiiight.
who doesn't like what I posted. You will be losing your moderator position or else the people who administer and own this site have no principles.
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I only started coming to KTL mid 2011........