Chinaman keeping it 100 in Kenya

The Odum of Ala Igbo

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Some of ya'all just eat up the exact macroeconomic narrative that was developed by the West and created to prop up their own interests, and don't even realize how self-serving that narrative is.

None of what you typed addressed the small revenue that Africans possessed and the hundreds of billions of dollars of capital that's required to facilitate economic growth before demographics overwhelm these states. But that's expected.
 

Blackrogue

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From what I saw at the Massai Market, the brothas and sistas carry them. One tried to lowball them on a blanket and he took Jackie Chan by the shoulders and rotated him to the exit. The cacasian was standing there like :mindblown:.


One of them wouldn’t move and bumped into a seller all the other owners looked at the Asians like:demonic:.

Going to the maasai market is a tourist trap. Things are automatically priced up. You can ask how much something cost and a second later I can ask the same thing in Swahili and they'll quote me a third of what they quoted you. They stay finessing foreigners. Even on the matatus or busses. I've seen them play obvious tourists and charge them more than anyone else cause they know tourists and foreigners have no concept of the proper price.

Even I had that problem when I came back. Someone quotes you a price. You convert it into dollars. Tell yourself thats not bad. Walk away paying three times what you should have paid. And then outside of supermarkets everything is negotiatiable. I used to think my mom was cold when someone quoted say 150. And she counters with 50 and doing a third is probably its real wholesale price. when doing business I realized most make a 40 percent margin on things.
 
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Professor Emeritus

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None of what you typed addressed the small revenue that Africans possessed and the hundreds of billions of dollars of capital that's required to facilitate economic growth before demographics overwhelm these states. But that's expected.
How can I address a case that hasn't been made? You're just assuming, without any actual case being made, that it is impossible for an African nation to develop on its own and that it must buy hundreds of billions of dollars of Western stuff first before it can develop. If you don't have a case for it beyond "but that's what the Western and Chinese economists tell Africa it must do", then I don't see what l need to address.
 

Booker T Garvey

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Cadillac

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:mjlol: Riiiight like how "cac tactics" like crack and welfare programs didn't destroy the American black family, which remains dysfunctional with the highest out of wedlock birth rates and highschool dropout rates to this day. How's that for a "distraction"?

Even Africans fresh off the boat from shytty countries do better than AA's. What does that tell you?

At some point you have to figure out your environment is killing you and do something about it. Willfully ignorant nikkas like you only get in the way of the much needed healing process for AA's.


You've got Stockholm syndrome dunny.
@bolded yeah u proving my point with those two circumstances stupidass, as I said we are a house divided that is being taken advantage of not conquered.
relying on out of context stats now? you really want to do that when nikkas can apply some stats on you cant read for shyt Africans that make yall look funny in the light:usure:. Wedlock rates dont tell the whole story, and those dropout stats change from one to another one saying highest next one saying "Graduation is improving" etc. but do you:hubie:

@bolded those Africans doing better are the ones who have degrees and skills, besides those individuals when you talking stuff like annual household income that is a given due to how African households can be constructed, that doesnt mean your "doing better" tho. Plus those of you who fit this description do not have the burden or went through what the AAs beneath you financial went or go through now.

Like I said worry less about us, and worry more about u fukknikkas. Exploitation by Chinese, Indians, tribal wars, disease etc should be a full plate of stuff for you to deal with. instead of looking over here at what we have.
 
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The Odum of Ala Igbo

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How can I address a case that hasn't been made? You're just assuming, without any actual case being made, that it is impossible for an African nation to develop on its own and that it must buy hundreds of billions of dollars of Western stuff first before it can develop. If you don't have a case for it beyond "but that's what the Western and Chinese economists tell Africa it must do", then I don't see what l need to address.

You’re fixated on the wrong issue.

The issue is the lack of capital in African countries. Not consumption of Western goods.

@thekyuke and I aren’t advocating for dependency on consuming Western goods. You’re talking as if it’s the 1990s
 

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You’re fixated on the wrong issue.

The issue is the lack of capital in African countries. Not consumption of Western goods.

@thekyuke and I aren’t advocating for dependency on consuming Western goods. You’re talking as if it’s the 1990s
You're assuming you need capital in terms of Western/Chinese cash. Take the next step. You think you need that capital in order to buy.....?

The only reason you need that capital is if you are then going to buy things from the West/China with it. That's exactly why they loan it to you. They get concessions from you for being "generous" enough to give you the loan, THEN they get to sell you the goods that you use the loan to buy, THEN they get the interest you have to pay off the loan. They win three times, and all you get is a time-shift in resources, at significant cost.

If you're relying on your own resources, then you don't need external financial capital to get it, you can produce what you need in-country and fill in the gaps via the normal amount of capital generated through trade and tourism. You only need hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign cash if you're going to use it to buy hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign product.

What do you think you're buying with that hundreds of billions in cash?
 

Cadillac

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Maybe u Africans living abroad should go home and fix shyt

Instead of being in other countries popping shyt :steviej:


nikka Talmbout
Hey AA move to Africa
While he living in America and ran from Africa:banderas:
this is whats so baffling about the exchanges you'll have with these idiots

nikka if you want to do something for Africa, go back to the country you came from and help.

instead of sitting here in the US benefiting for what we establish, and telling us "AAs,yall aint shyt" "go back to Africa and help out"

just the audacity of these dumb mfs is astounding:mjlol:
 

The Odum of Ala Igbo

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You're assuming you need capital in terms of Western/Chinese cash. Take the next step. You think you need that capital in order to buy.....?

The only reason you need that capital is if you are then going to buy things from the West/China with it. That's exactly why they loan it to you. They get concessions from you for being "generous" enough to give you the loan, THEN they get to sell you the goods that you use the loan to buy, THEN they get the interest you have to pay off the loan. They win three times, and all you get is a time-shift in resources, at significant cost.

If you're relying on your own resources, then you don't need external financial capital to get it, you can produce what you need in-country and fill in the gaps via the normal amount of capital generated through trade and tourism. You only need hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign cash if you're going to use it to buy hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign product.

What do you think you're buying with that hundreds of billions in cash?

I think you don't understand the numerous economic dividends and spin-offs which exist from creating physical infrastructure from a road, railroad of hydroelectric dam. Your analysis on "They win three times, you win only once" fails due to that.

Interestingly enough, you fail to realize that when an African government whose revenue is less than ten billion dollars (like Ethiopia) can't live 100,000,000 by itself - it needs to access capital from outside it's largely agrarian country...

Curious
:jbhmm:

Where are you from?
 

Secure Da Bag

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It's funny how Africans and African-Americans can level the same charges, flaws, and faults at each other and not notice. I'm not even saying that the charges are specious or spurious because they're not. They're all quite valid. But both groups have the same problems on different continents. And still suffer from the same self-inflicted issues of tribalism and disunity.

With that said, AAs are right when they say there's no reason to abandon the US. They built this place. They were forced to build this place. They own it. Just as much as the white people. But that doesn't mean that they should stay chained to it as if they can't go anywhere else.
 

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I think you don't understand the numerous economic dividends and spin-offs which exist from creating physical infrastructure from a road, railroad of hydroelectric dam. Your analysis on "They win three times, you win only once" fails due to that.
I never once said that roads, railroads, or hydroelectric dams are not economically beneficial. But I don't count those as "wins" that are brought about by loans because that relies on the assumption that you need hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign capital to make them happen. The USA was building all of those things in the 1800s. Come on now. The Grand Coulee Dam was built in 1943 for just $163 million ($1.8 billion in today's dollars), and it's still one of the biggest dams in the world. And much of the material for such a project, just like for the roads and railroads, could be sourced from within Kenya itself or within the course of normal trade operations.

The only "win" you get from accepting the outside capital is that those resources get developed faster. But they often are being developed faster only so that you can start using them to facilitate the business of the country that is helping you, so what you gain in speed you lose in self-determination and long-term sustainability. That's exactly the path that happened in Nigeria - they allowed foreign entities to "develop" their oil industry, but all it did was facilitate the shipping of Nigerian oil around the world while the rich took kickbacks, the poor suffered, and when Nigeria does become self-sufficient it will have that much less in natural resources to work with.

Nigeria's total GDP was only about $10 billion in 1970. They had a strong agricultural and light manufacturing sectors at that time. They could have continued developing both, along with developing their energy sector with their own resources at a pace that fit their own constraints, then use the gains to create further development (especially in the non-oil energy sector and tourism/conservation), and by today they could be food independent AND energy independent AND have a manufacturing trade surplus. And imagine how well the job situation would be.

Instead, their agricultural sector has collapsed, light manufacturing has collapsed, all the oil is getting shipped out so they're not even energy independent despite massive reserves, they run huge trade deficits, the people are angry and terrorist and rebel movements have taken over huge swaths of the country.

That's the sort of thing that fast development gets you. You serve the interests of those who want your stuff. Slow self-sustained development is slower, but it is real.



Interestingly enough, you fail to realize that when an African government whose revenue is less than ten billion dollars (like Ethiopia) can't live 100,000,000 by itself - it needs to access capital from outside it's largely agrarian country...
But you don't need 100,000,000 by itself unless it's going to buy 100,000,000 from others. And you haven't demonstrated why that is necessary.

A couple billion can be generated off of agricultural exports alone, several billion more off of tourism, and then even more if Kenya were to develop a light manufacturing sector rather than wasting so much money buying that stuff from China and the West. I believe that alone could suffice for capital needs, as most of the resources can be developed locally and outside capital won't be necessary for those. I am not opposed to taking no-conditions development aid too IF such aid is true aid, not loans, and comes without conditions that would make Kenya in any way subservient to another nation's own interests.



Curious
:jbhmm:

Where are you from?
I never answer nationality questions or say where my parents are from on here, too many haters come on all sides. Either my ideas stand up on their own merits or they do not, it don't matter where I am from. I argue the same principles for Kenyans as I do for Nigerians as I do for African-Americans in the USA, with modifications of course depending on circumstances but not on my own personal investment.
 

thekyuke

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Claiming that it is impossible for an African nation to develop beyond "another century of grinding poverty" without accepting a foreign agenda from a power player is bullshyt defeatism. Why do you believe that non-African nations could develop without African cash, but African nations can only develop with American/Chinese cash?

African nations, in fact, already have a massive head start as all the knowledge is already available. The necessary education, the necessary skills, the necessary blueprints, all those are available. Take advantage of them. Since the wheel doesn't need to be reinvented, development in Africa could be even faster than development anywhere else was. But don't take their money if it makes you beholden to their agenda, because their agenda cannot serve Africa's long term interests.

We argued this already in the Nigeria thread and I'm not going to rehash it all again. But you don't need giant amounts of foreign money in order to develop. Israel's GDP didn't break $20 billion until the 1980s. Nigeria, Finland, and Norway all had GDP of only about $10 billion in 1970, yet all had self-sufficient agriculture and strong light manufacturing sectors that put them in a perfect position to develop. Nigeria chose to focus on quick money via oil deals with other nations and saw their self-sufficient sectors atrophy, while Finland and Norway developed on their own and are in a great state today. (And yes, I'm aware that Finland/Norway have much smaller populations than Nigeria, I'm just proving that you don't need large foreign cash reserves to create development, it can be done even with a small economy.) The myth created by the West is that you can only develop if you buy billions and billions of dollars worth of stuff from the West, but this is a self-serving narrative they create which assumes that only Western development is true development and no African nation could ever make it on their own.

Does Kenya have the necessary people to develop the nation? Yes.

Does Kenya have the necessary resources to develop the nation? Yes.

Can it develop as fast with the available resources if it chooses to develop on its own rather than serving a larger nation's interests? No.

Does faster development mean better development? No.

Does creating Kenyan pollution and draining Kenyan resources in order to produce Chinese food and Chinese energy while importing half-a-billion dollars a year in Chinese manufacturing products that crowd out Kenyan manufacturers put Kenya in a better long-term position? No.

And on loans, I'll repeat again that loans always export more value than they bring in. That is the very nature of loans. You take a certain amount of cash, and you promise that you'll give them all that cash back plus interest. They get more than you got. And they won't give you the loan unless they're convinced that they're gonna get more, because no one ends up with billions of dollars to loan unless they're very good at knowing they win in the end. The history of "development loans" to Africa don't look a hell of a lot different than the history of payday loans in the hood, it's exploitative and predictably serves the same interests every time.




Some of ya'all just eat up the exact macroeconomic narrative that was developed by the West and created to prop up their own interests, and don't even realize how self-serving that narrative is.

OK!
 

BlackJesus

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@bolded those Africans doing better are the ones who have degrees and skills, besides those individuals when you talking stuff like annual household income that is a given due to how African households can be constructed, that doesnt mean your "doing better" tho. Plus those of you who fit this description do not have the burden or went through what the AAs beneath you financial went or go through now.

Like I said worry less about us, and worry more about u fukknikkas. Exploitation by Chinese, Indians, tribal wars, disease etc should be a full plate of stuff for you to deal with. instead of looking over here at what we have.

Ok Mr Victim Olympics Gold Medal. :mjlol: Does'nt that prove my point? I said your environment is litterally killing you. You are just too dumb to figure that out.

I then suggested maybe atleast traveling to a continent where 99% of the population looks like you might do wonders for your mental health and remove some mental blocks. A refresh if you will. You then lashed out like a hurt animal.

You are like a 9 year old girl who decides "nah I'll stay living in the house of a serial rapist" after being repeatedly molested and sexually abused, then telling child services to fukk off. You are a head case.:mjlol:
 

Cadillac

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Ok Mr Victim Olympics Gold Medal. :mjlol: Does'nt that prove my point? I said your environment is litterally killing you. You are just too dumb to figure that out.

I then suggested maybe atleast traveling to a continent where 99% of the population looks like you might do wonders for your mental health and remove some mental blocks. A refresh if you will. You then lashed out like a hurt animal.

You are like a 9 year old girl who decides "nah I'll stay living in the house of a serial rapist" after being repeatedly molested and sexually abused, then telling child services to fukk off. You are a head case.:mjlol:
Ur talking killing. I'm referring to obstacles for success there not the same.

Why don't u invest some of ur time pressing Africans to return home instead sitting here pleading for us AAs to go back.
 

BlackJesus

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Ur talking killing. I'm referring to obstacles for success there not the same.

Why don't u invest some of ur time pressing Africans to return home instead sitting here pleading for us AAs to go back.

There are already lots of AA's going back. Lots of Africans going back.They both see the value in doing so. Only trying to put some sense into the scared negros who think America is the only country they can live in.

I'm really just saying travel and get out of that shytty place you think holds the key to eternal life and happiness. Hell Mexico is a safer, healthier country than the US is for black people. As shytty an racist as Mexico can be at least they don't shoot, impoverish and imprison black people.

But people like you ain't hearing none of it. Why even come into an African thread? Why participate? I don't get some of you weirdos.
 
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