Can we talk about Sugar Ray being one of the biggest duckers of all time?

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

His antics would have driven people crazy if he was pulling the stunts now that he did then. Look at how Mayweather gets treated.

He got called out IN PERSON by Aaron Pryor and completely dismissed it and ducked him although Pryor was more than worthy. Some say that Ray moved up in class for the Olympics because Pryor was so good..and Pryor was undefeated at the time of the challenge.



Then, this dude holds a huge event, inviting all types of celebs including Hagler himself and getting huge publicity just to end up saying that a fight will never happen. One of the biggest bytch-made moves of all time. (Starts around 8 minutes)



As we all know, he finally fought Hagler and won the (controversial) split decision...but did so only after watching the Hagler and Mugabe slugfest. Then, he literally was ducking Hagler in fight and being a dancing slap fighter the majority of the fight (outside of some great counter flurries when cornered). While I can see how Leonard won on points, I dont think anyone can ignore the fact that his histrionics and comeback narrative that he carefully crafted had an impact on the judges. I feel like they were simply impressed with the fact that Leonard looked better than expected, didn't get KO'd, and were basically rooting for him.

I dont think Sugar Ray would be nearly as beloved now if he pulled these type of stunts

 

[Newzz]

His antics would have driven people crazy if he was pulling the stunts now that he did then. Look at how Mayweather gets treated.

He got called out IN PERSON by Aaron Pryor and completely dismissed it and ducked him although Pryor was more than worthy. Some say that Ray moved up in class for the Olympics because Pryor was so good..and Pryor was undefeated at the time of the challenge.



Then, this dude holds a huge event, inviting all types of celebs including Hagler himself and getting huge publicity just to end up saying that a fight will never happen. One of the biggest bytch-made moves of all time. (Starts around 8 minutes)



As we all know, he finally fought Hagler and won the (controversial) split decision...but did so only after watching the Hagler and Mugabe slugfest. Then, he literally was ducking Hagler in fight and being a dancing slap fighter the majority of the fight (outside of some great counter flurries when cornered). While I can see how Leonard won on points, I dont think anyone can ignore the fact that his histrionics and comeback narrative that he carefully crafted had an impact on the judges. I feel like they were simply impressed with the fact that Leonard looked better than expected, didn't get KO'd, and were basically rooting for him.

I dont think Sugar Ray would be nearly as beloved now if he pulled these type of stunts

First off, Im tired of responding to Sugar Ray Leonard ducking Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor aka The Best 140 Fighter Ever

Breadman broke it down with facts and this same revisionist history everyone has the tendency of using needs to stop:

Also you have to challenge revisionist history. Ray and Pryor were never even in the same division. Floyd and Manny were the two best and biggest stars in the same division for 3 years. Had Ray not fought Thomas Hearns for 3 years then the analogy would be in order.

Ray actually offered Pryor a fight in early 1981 and Pryor turned it down. If you don’t believe me look at Pryor’s post fight interview after he beat Lennox Blackmoore. Pryor’s trainer Dave Jacobs who used to train Leonard told Pryor during the interview that he needs to stay at 140 or go down to 135 where he started. At that time Pryor was nothing more than Danny Garcia before the Khan fight. Imagine if Floyd or Manny offered Garcia a fight and he said no. Pryor turned the fight down and Leonard went onto fight Ayube Kalule and Tommy Hearns.....There was NO DUCK.

The crazy thing about this “duck” theory is Pryor never moved up and challenged any of the welterweights. If he wanted to be a player in the division he should have just moved up. You can’t duck a man who is NOT in your division.

From my research they had some heated sparring. What else would you expect from two all time greats? I did read interviews where Pryor’s people said he “smacked” Ray around. But that’s Pryor’s people. Funny thing is Ray doesn’t speak on it. From my knowledge about boxing I gather that as, the sparring was the Super Bowl for one fighter, where as it was just “work” for the other. Guess which is which.

Fighters are insanely jealous of fighters like Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Manny Pacquiao, Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather. Think about how many guys have imaginary axes to grind with those guys over the years. I love Aaron Pryor, he’s the best junior welterweight ever. But he was a legend NOT a superstar and there is a difference. Ray Charles Leonard was the star of stars during the 80’s and it bothered lots of his contemporaries.

BOXINGTALK : DAILY BREAD FRIDAY EDITION (1-11-13)

Secondly, how did Sugar Ray Leonard "duck" Marvin Hagler, when Sugar Ray was a 147lber and Marvin Hagler was a 160lber?


Is Floyd "ducking" GGG because he's a 147 lber, or even fights at 154, but he wont fight GGG at 160?


Okay then. Same thing with SRL and Hagler


And then, when they fought, you cant "duck" somebody in a fight


He fought HIS fight and fought the winning style in order to beat the much larger natural Middleweight Marvin Hagler.

 

[patscorpio]

ducking is not the word to use for sugar ray...he was very selective about who he fought after that eye injury..regardless it all caught up to him in the terry norris fight

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

First off, Im tired of responding to Sugar Ray Leonard ducking Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor aka The Best 140 Fighter Ever

Breadman broke it down with facts and this same revisionist history everyone has the tendency of using needs to stop:
Secondly, how did Sugar Ray Leonard "duck" Marvin Hagler, when Sugar Ray was a 147lber and Marvin Hagler was a 160lber?

Is Floyd "ducking" GGG because he's a 147 lber, or even fights at 154, but he wont fight GGG at 160?
Okay then. Same thing with SRL and Hagler
And then, when they fought, you cant "duck" somebody in a fight
He fought HIS fight and fought the winning style in order to beat the much larger natural Middleweight Marvin Hagler.

How is that clip with Pryor and Leonard not ducking? Dude straight up challenged him in person and was shrugged off like he was a bum. That isn't revisionist history.

Sugar Ray ducked Hagler because the fight was rumored for a long time with Leonard and Sugar Ray was bullshytting around it because he knew he would have gotten slaughtered. Ray obviously didnt have a problem moving up in weight because he eventually did, but only did so because he saw the damage Hagler took with Mugabe and thought he could out-speed him and point him by dancing. I guess Ray not granting a rematch until he knew Hagler didnt give a fukk anymore wasnt ducking either though.

Obviously, I was using the term "ducking" loosely when talking about in-fight. He did have his strategy and used it well. But that wasn't what he normally did nor did he really "outbox" him. He danced and slapped his way to points and used his stardom and narrative to gain more public support (probably also thinking it could help him on the cards).

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Pryor was far more a legitimate challenger than the tomato can Leonard got knocked down by in his first comeback. I think Pryor may be overrated historically but its disingenuous to say he wasn't worthy or that Leonard didn't duck him. Ray knew Pryor wasnt a big draw at the time and he didn't want to risk getting knocked the fukk out or have his legacy tarnished.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

ducking is not the word to use for sugar ray...he was very selective about who he fought after that eye injury..regardless it all caught up to him in the terry norris fight

He was pretty selective throughout his career. He's not necessarily unique in that, but Hagler at the very least deserved a rematch.

 

[Newzz]

How is that clip with Pryor and Leonard not ducking? Dude straight up challenged him in person and was shrugged off like he was a bum. That isn't revisionist history.

Sugar Ray ducked Hagler because the fight was rumored for a long time with Leonard and Sugar Ray was bullshytting around it because he knew he would have gotten slaughtered. Ray obviously didnt have a problem moving up in weight because he eventually did, but only did so because he saw the damage Hagler took with Mugabe and thought he could out-speed him and point him by dancing. I guess Ray not granting a rematch until he knew Hagler didnt give a fukk anymore wasnt ducking either though.

Obviously, I was using the term "ducking" loosely when talking about in-fight. He did have his strategy and used it well. But that wasn't what he normally did nor did he really "outbox" him. He danced and slapped his way to points and used his stardom and narrative to gain more public support (probably also thinking it could help him on the cards).

SRL offered Aaron Pryor a fight though...he turned it down



Secondly, again, if SRL "ducked" the Middleweight Champion Marvin Hagler, then what would you say Floyd is doing with GGG?



Is Floyd also ducking GGG? It's the EXACT same weight classes

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

SRL offered Aaron Pryor a fight though...he turned it down



Secondly, again, if SRL "ducked" the Middleweight Champion Marvin Hagler, then what would you say Floyd is doing with GGG?



Is Floyd also ducking GGG? It's the EXACT same weight classes

Yea, Floyd probably is ducking GGG a bit. Whats your point?

 

[Newzz]

Yea, Floyd probably is ducking GGG a bit. Whats your point?

My point is you CANT duck a fighter that fights 2 weight classes above you


I could see if Floyd/SRL were Junior Middleweights (154) and were being called out by the Middleweight Champion (160)....that's fine in my book. However, Hagler who was a career Middleweight (160), calling out a career Welterweight (147) was kind of pathetic. Too lose at Middleweight even makes it more hilarious to me.


If Hagler was REALLY about that fight, he could've offered to do it at a catchweight of 154.....but he didnt. He wanted SRL to come up to 160 and fight him. That would be the same as GGG wanting Floyd come up to 160 to fight him and if he didnt, we call him a duck

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Acting like moving up in weight is unprecedented for a big fight. Manny started as a light-flyweight..and he went all the way to light middle. Hagler also conceded a bigger ring that SRL demanded to employ his dancing, his own gloves and the number of rounds . It's not like Hagler strong-armed him into anything.

 

[Maizeandbluekid]

That was kinda fukked up how he showed up Hagler, though. Brother didn't deserve that.

 

[L68]

SRL is a homo rite?

 

[NormanConnors]

how come Hagler gets no flack for staying at the same weight his entire career?

a couple old school cats i know would always say that Ray didn't want those Pryor problems

 

[Jello Biafra]

Sugar Ray Leonard was far too c*nty for my liking but I would never say he ducked fighters.

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

I don't think Ray makes it a secret about waiting Hagler out like he did. Im going to watch Leonard/Hagler to score it again just like King did when I have time. That was a good post.