Need a coach that's gonna put some structure in place. Like I said before I can tolerate losing when you are failing at a process, can't accept free for all bullshyt.
Bombs over Bog'Don! The Official 20-2021 Atlanta Hawks Thread #RIPCHAR #WeMove
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Sly Cookin
based
Apparently their is friction between coach and trae. Pierce criticized how he ran the offense after the knicks loss
He’s not nearly good enough to pull this type of nonsense. Take the team to the playoffs first. We went on runs every time dude was out of the game and he killed momentum when he was in.
cam shot 2-100 and made more of an impact on the game than he did
Box Factory
hater
Been saying this stuff forever but no one wants to admit it
Hes detrimental to winning. Trae is a neg negative
O.iatlhawksfan
Devoted Joel Embiid hater
I believe in Pierce, when the offense is clicking is a beauty to watch but when the team is struggling it’s looks really bad
FreshFromATL
Self Made
Have Trae forgotten how to play basketball? He must’ve gotten a stripper pregnant or some shyt? The hell is wrong with dude, he’s looked horrible the past few games.
Cam looks like shyt right now too, dude shouldn’t be starting playing the way he is. The hell is going on with him?
Why they try to force-feed and lob to Capela/Collins so much? shyt usually end in a turnover.
what happened to the leadership?
Hate to say this bruhs, this team looks like it’s been tainted, there’s some issue(s) happening that we don’t know about that’s fukking up the chemistry on this team
Cam looks like shyt right now too, dude shouldn’t be starting playing the way he is. The hell is going on with him?
Why they try to force-feed and lob to Capela/Collins so much? shyt usually end in a turnover.
what happened to the leadership?
Hate to say this bruhs, this team looks like it’s been tainted, there’s some issue(s) happening that we don’t know about that’s fukking up the chemistry on this team
FreshFromATL
Self Made
shyt is crazy, Trae look like he ain’t even trying. nikka straight selling games right now.
I don't agree with everything leaking to the media, but I'm glad that it did because it certainly raised some eyebrows. Trae cannot pout like that and be the so called leader of the team that just can't happen.
You can't respond to John by having the worst game of your career. That was some straight dogshyt.. John has to understand trae are engine And everything flows through him. I think they'll get it corrected, but Lloyd Pierce certainly needs to get on these nikkas ass more..if trae continues down this path idc how talented he is that's some hoe shyt.
You can't respond to John by having the worst game of your career. That was some straight dogshyt.. John has to understand trae are engine And everything flows through him. I think they'll get it corrected, but Lloyd Pierce certainly needs to get on these nikkas ass more..if trae continues down this path idc how talented he is that's some hoe shyt.
FreshFromATL
Self Made
Hold up...Trae and John had beef?
But when the Hawks convened Tuesday at the Emory Sports Medicine Complex, the day after they had blown a 15-point lead in the second half for the second consecutive game in a loss to New York, there was something different about the most memorable message being sent: It wasn’t coming from the coach, Lloyd Pierce, but from a player.
John Collins, the fourth-year big man who just weeks before bet on himself in a big way during his failed extension talks with the Hawks, shared his unfiltered and unhappy views about the way franchise centerpiece Trae Young was running the offense. According to three sources who were either in the session or had knowledge of what was said, Collins raised several issues about the way these Hawks were functioning with Young at the helm.
Collins talked about the need to get into offensive sets more quickly and to limit all those early shot-clock attempts that leave his teammates on the outside looking in. He shared his desire to be more involved and expressed a desire for more ball involvement and flow on offense.
There was no back-and-forth between the two, but the pointed criticism caught the attention of the room. And Young, sources say, made it clear to others later that he strongly disagreed with Collins’ assessment.
“Trae is my brother regardless,” Collins, who chose not to elaborate further, told The Athleticvia text message when he was asked about the situation.
In a round-about way, Collins offered a reminder to his teammates that growing pains are an unavoidable part of this process. With Pierce in the final guaranteed year of his contract and playoff expectations upon them all, the question now is whether the Hawks can navigate these next few months well enough to make the most of this revamped roster.
The winner of the latest offseason, this franchise that added so many respected veterans such as Danilo Gallinari, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Rajon Rondo and Kris Dunn around its young and talented core, must now find a way to work together in the kind of way that leads to synergy and success. Yet as the Hawks have seen just eight games in, jumping out to a 4-1 start that came with all sorts of national hype only to endure a three-game losing streak that came with tough conversations along the way, the pitfalls of professional sports have a way of impeding progress. And the mood, quite clearly, can change quickly after just a few bad days.
Even after the film session came to an end, the dialogue about how these Hawks should operate continued. Only this time, it was Hawks big man Clint Capela who decided to weigh in during a private discussion with Young.
Capela, the 26-year-old who was acquired from Houston at last season’s trade deadline, had seen a similar act unfold before during the Dwight Howard-James Harden era with the Houston Rockets. Sources say Capela’s message focused on that cautionary tale, how Howard’s demands for the ball along with Harden’s reluctance to give it up more freely widened the divide between them and led to collective failure.
This kind of push-and-pull between talented wing players and big men is as old as the league itself, but Capela clearly saw no reason to let history repeat itself. But one night later, when the Hawks fell 102-94 to Charlotte in Atlanta, it was clear there had been a ripple effect from the day before. And not for the better.
Young finished with just seven points — his first single-digit scoring total since a nine-point outing in a 25-point loss to Detroit on Nov. 22, 2019 — and he only had three assists. He clearly had chosen not to be aggressive, taking just three attempts from beyond the 3-point line (his fewest since an 11-minute stint on Oct. 29, 2019) and nine total field-goal attempts and giving up seven turnovers. Collins, meanwhile, finished with a team-high 23 points on a team-high 16 shot attempts.
“Not wanting to force too much,” Young said. “They were hedging hard, and I was just getting off the ball. I just kind of wanted to let everybody else try to make plays. Whenever I got off it, they were face guarding. They were trying to make it tough on me to catch it back. That’s what it was.”
Throughout the game, Young appeared disengaged with the offense. He spent most of his time off the ball, not moving, and was careless when he did have the ball in his hands. The Hawks were down 20 two minutes into the second quarter but did mount a comeback in the third quarter with Brandon Goodwin and Kevin Huerter leading the offense. The ball was moving much better with those two than Young.
There was a moment during a timeout in the third quarter when, perhaps sensing Young was not happy, Collins put his arm around Young’s shoulders and patted him on the back to encourage him. Young did not say anything nor reciprocate Collins’ friendly gesture and instead walked away.
This isn’t the first time Collins has raised issues within the team to be more involved, but sources within the team and close to the situation pointed to his recent contract negotiations as a possible explanation for his frustration, though there also appears to be genuine intent from Collins to see this team continue to progress as a contender. Collins, who was one of only four players who averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds last season, has made little secret of the fact that he sees himself as a maximum-salary player.
It’s that belief that compelled him to turn down the Hawks’ extension offer last month, when sources say he left a deal worth more than $90 million on the table with the hopes that he would prove worthy of much more this offseason. Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.
Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
It’s understandable why Collins would speak out on the importance of more ball movement because that’s how he thrives in this offense. Collins is not a play initiator and not someone the Hawks comfortably can rely on to take over games by himself. Instead, he gets his points from offensive rebounding and pick-and-rolls — whether he’s rolling, popping or slipping the screen, which Kevin Durant called him the best in the league at doing just last week.
Through eight games, however, the stats suggest the two-man lineup of Young and Collins is working smoothly, as those two have a team-best 16.7 net rating, according to NBA.com’s data. That’s even with Young struggling from the field in the past three games, particularly on Wednesday.
Season stats
PLAYER
POINTS
ASSISTS
REBOUNDS
SHOOTING
3-POINT SHOOTING
Trae Young25.9
8.4
4.3
43
31
John Collins17.9
1.8
7.5
54.5
32
At least one Hawks player told The Athletic he believed the aftermath of Tuesday’s film session carried over into Wednesday’s game and was the reason for Young’s passive and lethargic performance. Pierce characterized Young’s night as “uncharacteristic.”
Wednesday against Charlotte
PLAYER
POINTS
ASSISTS
REBOUNDS
SHOOTING
3-POINT SHOOTING
Trae Young7
3
5
2-9
0-3
John Collins23
1
11
9-16
0-0
As the game progressed, Collins appeared to be his normal self — enthusiastically cheering everyone on — while Young appeared disinterested. It points to a recurring theme from last season when some of the players expressed Young’s vocal leadership needs improvement, especially with him being the team’s star player. Young is 22 years old and still finding his voice, but speaking up is not something that comes naturally to him.
For Pierce’s part, he has encouraged Young to continue growing as a vocal leader and said before the season that he felt there was progress on that pivotal front. But the basketball relationship between Young and Pierce continues to be worth monitoring, with multiple sources saying the disconnect between them remains an issue.
But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.
His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.
There’s significant pressure on Pierce to lead this team to the playoffs this season, especially with him stating in March that was the expectation — a comment that caught Hawks owner Tony Ressler by surprise, as it was not something the two had discussed. The fourth year of Pierce’s deal, a team option, has yet to be picked up. Yet after losing three straight games against perceived weaker opponents, a source with knowledge of the situation said Pierce is in no imminent danger. There’s an understanding that injuries to Gallinari, Rondo, first-round pick Onyeka Okongwu, Dunn and Tony Snell demand a need for patience. There’s the reality of the roster turnover, too, with ample time needed to incorporate nine new players into the team’s culture and Pierce’s system. This will take time to make it work as smoothly as the Hawks hope.
The Hawks continuously have expressed confidence that they can be a legitimate threat in the Eastern Conference, with Collins saying after their win against Brooklyn that “we’re not a joke.” And even with the challenging dynamics behind the scenes and the three-game losing streak, their two most important players have insisted the excitement about their hot start remains.
“You look at my first game after we won, I told you I’d never get too high or too low this season,” Young said after Wednesday’s game. “We’re eight games in. We’re 4-4. Any team can go on a stretch and win five games in a row. Any team can lose five. It’s all about how you prepare for the next one. For us, if we dwell on the three home games that we lost, this can carry over and continue to happen. We can’t let that happen.”
Said Collins: “I still feel like our potential is very high. As I said before, we have a lot of new pieces to work with as well as us being young. I feel like all of those are excuses for us going out there and trying to win the game. It’s just a lot of different factors that factor into us losing these games, but honestly I don’t want to harp on anything other than us trying to win the games that we should
Professor K.
rap game Paul Millsap
Hoe shyt, yes, but I think he was trying to prove a point. The shots Trae takes aren't bad shots for HIM. It's a part of his game that the entire team plays off of. Our roster's talent is amplified in the context of being Trae's supporting cast. Him falling back for the sake of everyone else stepping up makes us a worse team.
Trae needs to shoot the same way a football team needs to run the ball; no matter how (un)successful it is, you have to keep the defense honest and set up passes down the line. If that point was proven to Pierce, Collins, and the team after that last game, then it was worth "throwing" 1 game for the sake of the rest of the season.
if it wasn't....
Box Factory
hater
This is the exact opposite of what you guys have been arguing about trae.
The excuses were always about there not being enough talent around trae and that's why the team was so bad while he put up huge numbers
Now theres a huge influx of talent, development and progression from the other young guys, and you're still getting the same results.
Anyone with a critical eye, including his own team, has and is pointing out that this doesnt work as far as winning games
Professor K.
rap game Paul Millsap
I was ready to neg your troll ass when I saw the notification, but you actually made a halfway decent post for once
We started 4-1 with Trae playing his game. This 3 game losing streak has been about him tryna change his game to let the other guys eat and them leaving meat on the bone. Trae has stepped back but nobody is really stepping forward in terms of controlling the game. Our young guys have grown and our vets are better now, but our team needs to work through Trae.
I get everybody wanting to get theirs, and can definitely believe that it's hard for any team to fall in line behind any 6 foot scorer not named
, but that's still what we have to do if we want to win.
staticshock
Veteran
