Birdman Is Suing Jay Z and Tidal Over Lil Wayne For $50 Mil

[Jack Trippa 3z company ho]

Yeah interesting and may have grounds if CM is not getting a cut from their artist who is giving exclusive content out.

More potential loss for Tidal which has been a complete failure and joke.

Ironically at the same time, Bird owes Wayne millions...

50, Bird, Jay....all having some losses lately. The stars are aligning I guess.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

I think you're attempting to argue a lot of things in Birdman's favor while ignoring obvious facts. For one, this Wayne album is free for purchase and was available on other mixtape download sites immediately. You're going to have to argue that Tidal hosting Wayne's free album exclusively for two weeks was somehow a violation and then Birdman is not likely to get anything more than the value Tidal placed on the album and in ownership plus the amount ofn users who signed up to Tidal to listen..except they are all currently on...free trial. They are far from fukked. Proving the actual damages will be difficult. Last, Wayne would have dropped this regardless so Tidal did not cause COMB any loss that they would not have had anyway. And this album is currently on every streaming service. Tidal is not on the hook for much on its face.

I'm not talking about you having a dog, I'm talking about the fact that the things that I pointed out are glaring omissions in your analysis which leads to a favorable decision for Birdman. If you take that into account, then I doubt you would come to the same conclusion that you came to. I mean, how do you address what I just pointed out? This is aside from Tidal claiming that Wayne's contract was non-exclusive in the first place. I mean think about this, do you really think Apple, Tidal, Spotify, and Google ALL read that contract wrong? This is straight up a tactic to try to get Wayne to drop his suit from where I'm sitting.

• Do you really think this is the first time those companies have been sued? They are not infallible, particularly if they didn't have thorough analysis done on the contract. Would it be silly and unlikely that they didnt or misread it? Probably..but also not unprecedented nor is it far out of the realm of possibility that a small host of lawyers analyzed the contract (from Tidal most likely) and just gave the stamp of approval up the ladder. In any event, Apple, Spotify and Google are irrelevant to this case because they are not being sued.
  

• According to the lawsuit, Tidal has claimed Cash Money does not have a exclusive lock on Wayne ... Tidal claims Wayne specifically gave it the right to stream his music, in return for part ownership in the company.
  
  Cash Money begs to differ, and the company quotes portions of its contract with Lil Wayne in the lawsuit. The contract specifically says Wayne does not have the power to license his music to anyone else

  • You listed some obvious facts. But it was an official release..Wayne did not fulfill the 4 album obligation..It seems as though Baby's 150m payment is being argued as exclusive copyright ownership, or at the very least a split ownership with a clause of him being unable to license his music elsewhere. Because it was free for download is irrelevant and was probably Tidal/Wayne attempting to utilize a loophole to avoid this situation. What is a fact is that Wayne got ownership % in Tidal. Tidal is making money off FWA, albeit hard to value (agreed upon fully), and Wayne is making money via ownership. Thats the problem. Just because people can get the music for free somewhere else doesnt mean that Wayne and Tidal arent bringing in revenue.

• Tidal is claiming it will pay more, but that may not be as easy as it hopes. Streaming companies do not pay musicians directly; they pay record labels and music publishers, which then pass on whatever percentage of that money each creator’s contract entitles them to.

  • So if Wayne is still under contract to Birdman, which has been accepted as true..then how is CMR not entitled to money if they are his record label?

    • “Roc Nation execs reached out to Weezy but I don’t know the nature of the deal that they offered him or if he even accept anything,” the source told us. “Weezy is still in a contract with Cash Money, so Birdman would have to released him from that contract before he can sign to another label,” the source added.

  • This is why CMR is suing over licensing primarily. Whether or not Wayne has full or partial copyrights, or partial licensing, CMR is still entitled to money because Wayne is under contract. Wayne received compensation from Tidal, CMR did not. And from what most of the court documents say, its safe to assume that Birdman owns at least 1. part copyright 2. part licensing and still has Wayne under contract. You're attempting to argue a few things in Wayne's favor while ignoring obvious facts. If you took into account the glaring omissions in your analysis of my analysis which lead to likely 8m-10m to Wayne over advance money but a loss for Tidal (at an undetermined number, though expect to see Waynes % ownership cited), then I doubt you wouldn't come to the same conclusion that I did.
• *Edit to add/reiterate from my original post:

  The failure to credit Lil Wayne with co-ownership of the sound recording could have implications on his bottom line. For instance, rights collection agencies like SoundExchange designate 50% of streaming royalties for Rights Holders. This means that, if only the record label and not Lil Wayne is designated a Rights Holder, Lil Wayne is missing out on his share - 25% of the royalties collected for his recordings. Wayne would also have difficulty suing for copyright infringement of his own recordings if the Copyright Office does not recognize him as the owner. Keep in mind that these are the copyrights to the sound recordings

  • If CMR's copyrights are true then: they are entitled to % of streaming royalties and perhaps the monetary equivalent wayne's %ownership in Tidal because Wayne is under contract and that was a part of the valuation of FWA. And seeing as though Wayne did not sue for copyright infringement or ownership, it is fair to assume that the Copyright Office recognizes CMR as the owner.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Also, why do you think Wayne initially planned to sue for ~$8m and wanted to settle amicably at first? 1.Because he/his lawyers knew the $8m advance money was a solid bet and 2. They probably felt it was an uphill climb and long battle to work for the copyrights etc. When Baby showed no signs of settlement, they added a bunch of "other contract (as designated in the lawsuit)" disputes to the paperwork as a ploy to get Baby to settle and grant his release.

 

[DonKnock]

Also, in Texas, for example, fees could be recovered when suits involve rendered services, performed labor and a contractual agreement. LA code is less clear.

@DonKnock

Could SLAPP/Anti-SLAPP get involved at all here? LA has one of the strongest SLAPP laws and Baby could argue that Wayne's case is without merit and now that he has used deceptive action in fulfillment of a contract vis a vis the compilation albums and also for economic advantages by Wayne releasing on Tidal? Wayne could possibly use it in a counter-suit dependent on judgement of his initial suit. Its generally for journalists, but has been applied elsewhere under defense of public speech in criticism of a business. It'd probably be a reach on both ends but there is a movement going to amend SLAPP laws so It's an odd dispute because they could both theoretically argue contract breach, deceptive and unfair business transactions and comments made publicly.

It will be hard for Birdman to get one against Wayne because of his involvement in the Shooting of Wayne's tourbus being solidified in the indictment against PeeWee Roscoe. There is already hard evidence that Baby took non-legal means to try and silence Wayne, and that would undoubtedly be the stance that Wayne's lawyers would take.

Those SLAPP laws deal mostly with Free Speech exercise, basically an requesting an injunction against speech, and Wayne would have to be claiming that the release of his project constituted an act of public speech, which Bird was preventing him from doing.

Or more plausibly, that Birdman has been trying stop Wayne from speaking out about how Baby violated provisions of his contract. The bottle throwing incident in Miami gives some credence to that along with the bus shooting. This doesn't address the contract dispute though so I'd be surprised if it is a route that they take.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

It will be hard for Birdman to get one against Wayne because of his involvement in the Shooting of Wayne's tourbus being solidified in the indictment against PeeWee Roscoe. There is already hard evidence that Baby took non-legal means to try and silence Wayne, and that would undoubtedly be the stance that Wayne's lawyers would take.

Those SLAPP laws deal mostly with Free Speech exercise, basically an requesting an injunction against speech, and Wayne would have to be claiming that the release of his project constituted an act of public speech, which Bird was preventing him from doing.

Or more plausibly, that Birdman has been trying stop Wayne from speaking out about how Baby violated provisions of his contract. The bottle throwing incident in Miami gives some credence to that along with the bus shooting. This doesn't address the contract dispute though so I'd be surprised if it is a route that they take.

Agreed on this post..specifically the bolded. I think Wayne's team could possibly use it if they wanted to throw the book at Birdman or as a last resort..but we both agree it'd be a longshot. SLAPP is generally in defamation/journalists/tabloids/businesses but I suppose its somewhat feasible since Wayne is a public figure. Hell, that judge unsealed documents on Cosby referencing his pound cake diatribe to be a public figure above a comedian/actor so who knows nowadays how the courts will rule on things like that.

 

[DonKnock]

• • So if Wayne is still under contract to Birdman, which has been accepted as true..then how is CMR not entitled to money if they are his record label?
  • This is why CMR is suing over licensing primarily. Whether or not Wayne has full or partial copyrights, or partial licensing, CMR is still entitled to money because Wayne is under contract. Wayne received compensation from Tidal, CMR did not. And from what most of the court documents say, its safe to assume that Birdman owns at least 1. part copyright 2. part licensing and still has Wayne under contract. You're attempting to argue a few things in Wayne's favor while ignoring obvious facts. If you took into account the glaring omissions in your analysis of my analysis which lead to likely 8m-10m to Wayne over advance money but a loss for Tidal (at an undetermined number, though expect to see Waynes % ownership cited), then I doubt you wouldn't come to the same conclusion that I did.
• *Edit to add/reiterate from my original post:
  • If CMR's copyrights are true then: they are entitled to % of streaming royalties and perhaps the monetary equivalent wayne's %ownership in Tidal because Wayne is under contract and that was a part of the valuation of FWA. And seeing as though Wayne did not sue for copyright infringement or ownership, it is fair to assume that the Copyright Office recognizes CMR as the owner.

"A work for hire vests the copyright in the employer rather than the natural person who created the work."

Because Wayne is employed by CM, Baby has a greater claim to the rights of Wayne's works if he did not register the copyrights on his own.

In the case of the Free Weezy Album, because it was commissioned specifically for Tidal, Wayne would have relinquished his copyrights claims to Tidal under this same premise. Depending on the language of his contract with CM, Wayne would not have to power to transfer rights in this manner.

"Once a plaintiff has proven that he or she owns the copyright on a particular work, and that the defendant has infringed upon those “exclusive rights,” the defendant is liable for the infringement and this liability is absolute. The defendant’s intent is simply not relevant.…"

Tidal is going to be on the line for damages here as long as Baby has it set up for CM to retain all of Wayne's copyrights. However, I doubt that he will get 50 million that he is asking for.


A few years back, Mac Miller got sued by Lord Finesse for content on a mixtape, so it is not unprecedented for claims to mixtape material.

 

[DuncanWebayama]

Things like these ruin artists, it's sad because it happens constantly, why can't there be a big exec that just let's an artist make music and get their money, fukk. Fukk the industry, independent all the way. People may think it's funny, but we've lost a lot of great music from artist because of shady fuking business. Burn the industry down, can't stand none of those fakketd

 

[No1]

Also, why do you think Wayne initially planned to sue for ~$8m and wanted to settle amicably at first? 1.Because he/his lawyers knew the $8m advance money was a solid bet and 2. They probably felt it was an uphill climb and long battle to work for the copyrights etc. When Baby showed no signs of settlement, they added a bunch of "other contract (as designated in the lawsuit)" disputes to the paperwork as a ploy to get Baby to settle and grant his release.

You said a lot of things that are questionable, but I don't have time right now to go through all of it. I would fall back on stating what facts are and are not relevant in such a matter of fact matter. You make numerous suppositions--including taking Cash Money's attorneys words at face value and then try to extrapolate as to how the case will turn out in something as complicated as contract law. The proper answer here is simple--there are questions on both sides and absent knowledge of the applicable law and contractual agreements, determining how this will result is premature. This is not like me literally reading the Wells report and stating how the Brady case would go if it showed up in front of a judge.

I get that we're all trying to help here, but there simply is not enough information for you to make anything resembling a strong credible analysis. When I stated "what this looks like" I was referring to a tactic not the actual merits of the case which is what you're trying to do extensively--no credible transaction/corporate/contract attorney would attempt to do what you're doing right now. The fact that you said I pointed out general things that aren't relevant is a red flag that you've never actually handled a case like this in your life or had to deal with damages calculations. My opinion is simple--we do not have enough facts to be commenting.

 

[Blackrogue]

@ VMR you should go into your father's practice. You have studied law and seem to have an interest in the mechanics and art of it. Plus you are lucky your dad built something that he can pass down. Doesn't seem like it's worthwhile of have but I think it's worthwhile for you to carry on your family's ownership of something. You were born for it

 

[L. Deezy]

I dont think Wayne has court battle money... sad

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

You said a lot of things that are questionable, but I don't have time right now to go through all of it. I would fall back on stating what facts are and are not relevant in such a matter of fact matter. You make numerous suppositions--including taking Cash Money's attorneys words at face value and then try to extrapolate as to how the case will turn out in something as complicated as contract law. The proper answer here is simple--there are questions on both sides and absent knowledge of the applicable law and contractual agreements, determining how this will result is premature. This is not like me literally reading the Wells report and stating how the Brady case would go if it showed up in front of a judge.

I get that we're all trying to help here, but there simply is not enough information for you to make anything resembling a strong credible analysis. When I stated "what this looks like" I was referring to a tactic not the actual merits of the case which is what you're trying to do extensively--no credible transaction/corporate/contract attorney would attempt to do what you're doing right now. The fact that you said I pointed out general things that aren't relevant is a red flag that you've never actually handled a case like this in your life or had to deal with damages calculations. My opinion is simple--we do not have enough facts to be commenting.

There were requests early in thread for people to help make sense of the situation and Ive tried to do extensively.

If you want to fall back on stating what facts are, then state that Wayne's 4 album obligation was not fulfilled and he is still technically signed to CMR, rather than pu pu the situation by saying 'well FWA was released for free and is found elsewhere' (paraphrasing). FWA was not even released for free as the rights of it were transferred by Wayne to Tidal in return for tangible compensation. Tidal released FWA as a part of their service to paying customers.

If Wayne released FWA as a mixtape for free, or without a transfer of licensing to another business, there would be no grounds for a law-suit against Tidal. Then you tried to bolster your opinion of the merits of the case by considering Apple/Google/Spotify..groups that are not listed in the lawsuit nor are groups that Wayne sold the licensing rights to (I would like to see information on how they got access to the album, havent looked that up)..which is a red-flag to me since you are being both off-base and hypocritical by saying I am not doing anything to resemble credible analysis while you have only pointed to a false designation of FWA being a free release and to parties not being apart of the lawsuit. Why doesn't everyone just sue YouTube in a class action lawsuit then? Because of copyright ownership, semantics/legalize, poor legal standing, apathy or lack of funds to finance a law-suit. All they can do, and some can do, is request an injunction of sorts and removal based on copyrights. And guess what? Baby filed an injunction on the streaming of FWA...

And further, I have also, on numerous occasions, alluded to tactics. Clearly, as both lawsuits are still pending and there are pertinent pieces of information that haven't been released yet, it is too soon to give a definitive judgement...and also, clearly, we are both not judges in the first place so this whole endeavor is partially hypothetical and subjective in regards to the interpretation of the law in the jurisdiction in which the cases are being tried. However, there is no need for you to cast aspersions towards what I have spent way too much time in here on doing with a weakly intentioned caveat of "we're all trying to help here". You called me out for not acknowledging the points you raised, then I promptly acknowledged the points you made and did so in depth, and you are now saying you didnt read the response you asked for and that we don't have enough facts to be commenting on the case..yet commented on my post without being aware of all the information presented in it.

In this case, as with all cases, judgements can go either way and potentially be a surprising ruling..and I did nothing to claim (and I apologize if I implied otherwise) "this is going to happen, 100% sure" other than to say: Tidal is in big trouble with the lawsuit (unlikely to be 50m) on legal grounds pending the release of more copyright/licensing information, based on the information provided that Wayne has strong merits in getting money for the advance if not more and that Baby seems to have reasonably strong legal standing in both cases to at least break even. These assertions have been somewhat supported by another poster here who has said that their expertise is in IP...yet, Im pretty sure most everyone in here is reasonable enough to understand that none of my words, or anyone else's words, are gospel, specifically regarding pending lawsuits.

 

[nieman]

Young money is no longer a subsidiary of Cash money. So technically wayne could release his music on there.

Even if that was the case, Lil Wayne could still be a CM artist. LOL Should've released it under a different name

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

@ VMR you should go into your father's practice. You have studied law and seem to have an interest in the mechanics and art of it. Plus you are lucky your dad built something that he can pass down. Doesn't seem like it's worthwhile of have but I think it's worthwhile for you to carry on your family's ownership of something. You were born for it

Thank you but nah. He has his own practice solo, the clientele base isn't strong, a majority of his criminal defense cases are low profile in low income areas so he often undercharges and allows late payment and he has next to zero marketing initiative..so when he's out, his main pull as being recognized and respected in the area go away with him and I dont have the demeanor or desire to do what he does. He is constantly miserable traveling around the state to jails and prisons and has also been complaining about the changing of the guard with young blow-hard attorneys in the area and direction of the judicial system. It doesnt seem at all appealing to me.

 

[O.Red]

Wayne gon take off his dreads "IT WAS BG ALL ALONG, MY GOODNESS, BG IS FREE"

 

[We Ready]

FWA has been removed from spotify.


They are gonna make birdman choose between Wayne or the money.

If he maintains that FWA is a cash money album then Wayne has fulfilled his contract, if he says it's not a cash money album then he has no say over who streams it.


Maybe that was Wayne's plan all along.