Best Player In The World title...

[murksiderock]

Based upon this Bill Simmons video:



Also though, I've thought of this before and never formally addressed it here. I do think that we can be too loose with how freely we call someone the best player in basketball. It's not something I think just automatically goes to whoever wins the championship, nor do I think should be assumed to who the MVP is...

The funny thing is that we have clear years demonstrating this, as this conversation really didn't take on steam until the last decade, as with the GOAT shyt, though I do think we've always had a variation of this conversation here and there...

There was zero mention of anyone from the '14 Spurs, '11 Mavs, or '08 Celtics, in real time, of being the best player in ball. Those teams won it all, didn't have the MVP, and yet we clearly didn't think any of those teams had The League's best player...

I also do not believe that it generously goes to someone having a good 3 months, a hot playoffs, or a hot year for the first time. The caveat here is that most years have at least two people in question for the claim, sometimes more than two viable candidates. I think a player who has been better, gets deference until it's absolutely taken from them, over a guy who is just now threatening the claim...

This is why, as an example, there's nothing Luka can do to take this title from Jokic this year for me. He's never been thought of as better than Jokic before this season, just because his team advanced further than Jokic's this year, doesn't automatically give his this title. And you'll see examples where I'm keeping this energy consistent in my list...

Right here, I'm only going to list who have been the best players in the NBA since I've been following since the 1998-99 season. Feel free to debate this or add years before '99...

 

[SadimirPutin]

Best player in the world to me is a combination of

Production: Your efforts must have statistical weight....I will keep it simple here, Points, Rebounds, Assists, blocks, etc


EFFICIENCY(I dont care how many 30 pt games you score if you shooting 7-24 and grifting your way to a boatload of free throws),

Situation....Are you a regular season bully or do you get busy in the postseason? Postseason work is what separates icons from the rest.

How did you perform in tough series? Win or lose you still showed that you were a real one

Accolades: This one is very iffy to me because the people who vote for these awards are political and have very absurd biases......you can absolutely be cooking and still not get an award

Achievements: Have you made deep playoff runs ? Have you done it consecutively? Did you get to a conference finals or finals? Did your play drop off in those rounds?

Other people may have different criteria....just mentioning some of the things I consider...all of these things are subject to context.

Like can you fault Brunson for NOT making the ECF this year? Would be foolish to me

 

[murksiderock]

20s
24 Jokic
23 Jokic
22 Giannis
21 Giannis
20 LeBron

10s
19 Durant
18 LeBron
17 LeBron
16 LeBron
15 LeBron
14 LeBron
13 LeBron
12 LeBron
11 LeBron
10 Kobe

00s
09 Kobe
08 Kobe
07 Kobe
06 Duncan
05 Duncan
04 Duncan
03 Duncan
02 Shaq
01 Shaq
00 Shaq

90s
99 Malone

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Usually it boils down to who was the best player on the team that won the championship which is in many ways a dumb way to look at it but it is what it is.

There's people on this board and elsewhere who were trying to put Dirk above LeBron after the '11 Finals. It was incredibly embarrassing for that Heat team that was super stacked to lose to that Mavs team and Dirk had a great postseason... but if you are being objective, Dirk was not a better player than LeBron even then.

That's just one example. But it happens every year now. Bucks win the title? Giannis must be the best player. Denver wins? Ok, now it's Joker. Mavs win? Ok now it's Luka...

Just a very basic way of thinking...

 

[Dwight Howard]

Based upon this Bill Simmons video:



Also though, I've thought of this before and never formally addressed it here. I do think that we can be too loose with how freely we call someone the best player in basketball. It's not something I think just automatically goes to whoever wins the championship, nor do I think should be assumed to who the MVP is...

The funny thing is that we have clear years demonstrating this, as this conversation really didn't take on steam until the last decade, as with the GOAT shyt, though I do think we've always had a variation of this conversation here and there...

There was zero mention of anyone from the '14 Spurs, '11 Mavs, or '08 Celtics, in real time, of being the best player in ball. Those teams won it all, didn't have the MVP, and yet we clearly didn't think any of those teams had The League's best player...

I also do not believe that it generously goes to someone having a good 3 months, a hot playoffs, or a hot year for the first time. The caveat here is that most years have at least two people in question for the claim, sometimes more than two viable candidates. I think a player who has been better, gets deference until it's absolutely taken from them, over a guy who is just now threatening the claim...

This is why, as an example, there's nothing Luka can do to take this title from Jokic this year for me. He's never been thought of as better than Jokic before this season, just because his team advanced further than Jokic's this year, doesn't automatically give his this title. And you'll see examples where I'm keeping this energy consistent in my list...

Right here, I'm only going to list who have been the best players in the NBA since I've been following since the 1998-99 season. Feel free to debate this or add years before '99...

There are definitely people who viewed luka better than jokic. If people think he better this year it's because he played better basketball than him this season.

 

[Juggalo Fred]

Aaron Judge

 

[murksiderock]

Some quick notes:

•'99 was the first year after Mike's second retirement. The only other candidates to this claim that year are Shaq or Duncan, but Malone was the second best player in ball during the second 3peat. He won MVP in '99 and I think overall he was still a better player than both Shaq and Duncan, neither of whom were at the peak they'd become;

•Shaq was the best player in basketball during the 3peat. You could argue '02 Duncan but this is the first example of, I don't believe you can just unseat the incumbent with one year. '02 is the first year Shaq is truly threatened by Duncan on this, even in '99 Duncan wasn't a better player than Shaq yet;

•from '03 on Duncan has it for awhile, possibly from '02. Duncan can be argued for '07 but by that time I think he's fallen some;

•Kobe was being debated as the best player in basketball since around '03 but he wasn't the lead name in any year really until the Nash MVP years. First, he simply wasn't better than Duncan before then. Second, he missed the playoffs in 2005 while playing 66 games, fundamentally I do not think you can be the best player in basketball and your team is a 34-win team who misses the playoffs...

It's not happening, the best player in ball isn't sitting home when the playoffs start if he's healthy...

'06 Kobe had that crazy scoring run and I could see an argument for that year, but it's his first strong year threatening the claim, so I value the incumbent more, 2, I could make a Dirk argument in '06, and 3, he gave up a 3-1 playoff lead. Look at all the examples of All-Timers blowing 3-1 leads in NBA history, and tell me which one had the best player alive. Then come back and explain to me why there's an exception that should be made for '06 Kobe blowing his 3-1 lead...

He pretty comfortably has it in '07 though, as Duncan had just fallen too far and Kobe's consistency of the previous few years takes over...

2010 Kobe, I'll give it to him, but it was the first year I noticed some slippage with him, where he was falling from the conversation. This takes me to LeBron;

•I could make the argument LeBron was the best player in basketball from 2008 thru '20 with no breaks...

But I don't believe he was better than '08 Kobe. I do think he's very arguable as better than '09 and '10 Kobe, but '09 Kobe had his best playoff run. It's 2010 that I think you can make the strongest case for Bron over Kobe...

From '11 on it was clearly Bron every year. '11 Rose and '11 Dirk weren't better basketball players than Bron, nobody said this in real time. '14 Durant and no '14 Spur was better than Bron. '15 Steph wasn't better than Bron...

Steph at no point of his career, until 2021, was a better basketball player than Bron. '16 Steph you could argue had a better year, and he certainly had the regular season, but that postseason and Finals, Bron was better in both...

Kevin Durant was never a better basketball player than LeBron until LeBron started getting hurt. I don't think '17 is a legitimate argument, it's the first year he joined the Warriors, we knew the squad had the 2nd and 3rd greatest players. '18, I'll listen to an argument for, as he went b2b, but Bron had a better postseason and did more heavy lifting;

•'19 Durant is when it came together. Bron got hurt and missed the playoffs, Durant had an outstanding year, and was on his way to an All-Time playoff run before getting hurt. That 12 minutes of play he hit the floor in The Finals, the gap between he and Kawhi was so enormous it was shocking;

•Bron was the best player in 2020, and this takes me to Giannis. Number one, this was the last truly great LeBron year. 2, Giannis won MVP in '19 and '20. '19 was his first year in the convo and he just wasn't better than '19 Durant, and the same Kawhi who disappeared when Durant was on the floor in The Finals, was clearly a better player in the ECF vs Giannis...

So Giannis goes from being overwhelmed in the '19 ECF and choking that series, to choking in the '20 playoffs. He's not there yet, and to be honest, I can entertain an argument that Giannis isn't the best player in '21. But I just don't think KD plays enough games in '21 to justify the title, KD doesn't play at all in '20, Giannis plays KD to a draw in the playoffs and has a great Finals. It's Giannis in '21, and I think he validated this in '22. He was better than Steph;

•Jokic gets it in '23, ironically the year he doesn't win MVP. Embiid has never been better than Jokic. Giannis I think was always better than Jokic but Jokic was threatening the convo in his first two MVP years, and he just takes it last year. He's still that this year, by a comfortable margin...

Now whether Jokic keeps it next year is up for debate, next year hasn't been played yet. But Jokic had a 2-year run minimum he had this title, and was in the conversation the two years prior...

 

[jaydawg08]

The negative with Jokic and Luka is their defense is so poor.. they are below average defenders, but their offense and people around them essentially mask it

It’s pretty open as far the “best in the world”

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

It's not about the volume it's when you do it. The best player is the one who consistently turns up in the marquee games/matchups and/or when their team needs them most throughout the course of the season.

 

[murksiderock]

Best player in the world to me is a combination of

Production: Your efforts must have statistical weight....I will keep it simple here, Points, Rebounds, Assists, blocks, etc


EFFICIENCY(I dont care how many 30 pt games you score if you shooting 7-24 and grifting your way to a boatload of free throws),

Situation....Are you a regular season bully or do you get busy in the postseason? Postseason work is what separates icons from the rest.

How did you perform in tough series? Win or lose you still showed that you were a real one

Accolades: This one is very iffy to me because the people who vote for these awards are political and have very absurd biases......you can absolutely be cooking and still not get an award

Achievements: Have you made deep playoff runs ? Have you done it consecutively? Did you get to a conference finals or finals? Did your play drop off in those rounds?

Other people may have different criteria....just mentioning some of the things I consider...all of these things are subject to context.

Like can you fault Brunson for NOT making the ECF this year? Would be foolish to me

I agree with all of this criteria, especially playoff weight. This matters more to me than regular season greatness, and as you said it doesn't mean you win the title. It's simply about your consistent dominance in the playoffs...

Its not Brunson's fault the Knicks didnt make the ECF. He's not close to this conversation though...

Usually it boils down to who was the best player on the team that won the championship which is in many ways a dumb way to look at it but it is what it is.

There's people on this board and elsewhere who were trying to put Dirk above LeBron after the '11 Finals. It was incredibly embarrassing for that Heat team that was super stacked to lose to that Mavs team and Dirk had a great postseason... but if you are being objective, Dirk was not a better player than LeBron even then.

That's just one example. But it happens every year now. Bucks win the title? Giannis must be the best player. Denver wins? Ok, now it's Joker. Mavs win? Ok now it's Luka...

Just a very basic way of thinking...

Thats my motivation for creating this thread, it can't just flip hands every time someone wins the title. It just doesn't work that way...

There are definitely people who viewed luka better than jokic. If people think he better this year it's because he played better basketball than him this season.

Very few people. And he did not play better basketball than Jokic this year...

 

[Gotright]

The negative with Jokic and Luka is their defense is so poor.. they are below average defenders, but their offense and people around them essentially mask it

It’s pretty open as far the “best in the world”

its Open? Who could be the best player besides them 2?

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Thats my motivation for creating this thread, it can't just flip hands every time someone wins the title. It just doesn't work that way...

The in-season trades for the Mavs paid off. it's arguable that Luka has a better supporting cast than Joker right now because Kyrie is a better Murray and the Mavs don't have a guy like MPJ who has completely collapsed and become an albatross.

Luka might very well win the title and a Finals MVP but I'm not sure he should be placed above Joker

 

[jaydawg08]

its Open? Who could be the best player besides them 2?

I’d assume if the C’s win people will make an argument for Tatum.. I know people don’t want to hear it but Giannis had a great year this year before getting hurt

 

[Braman]

If Mavs win it’s Luka. The only thing holding him back was we all assumed his stats were funny money. And that his style was bullshyt. Well if they win he’s stamped

 

[Trojan 24]

Aaron Judge

GOATani >