Barbary Lion vs Siberian Tiger
- Thread starter Sword
- Start date
Like Terell jacobs said, the mane is a benefactor.
If three tigers cant get pass the mane of a lion who isnt even fighting back, I think a crazed lion offering resistance will have the tiger find it almost impossible to get to the neck.
If three tigers cant get pass the mane of a lion who isnt even fighting back, I think a crazed lion offering resistance will have the tiger find it almost impossible to get to the neck.
Terrell jacobs
Lions fresh from the jungle are preferred since native- born animals, used to the fawning of crowds, are easily distracted and lack the single-mindedness of wild beasts. First, the cats are taught to walk down the ramp, with a collar and chain being applied to animals in cases where they, are slow to respond.
http://cambridge.dlconsulting.com/cg...l+jacobs-----#
So Terrell jacobs worked with over 2,000 lions and tigers, preferred wild instead of captive raised, seen many fights with the lion usually winning and favors the lion against a tiger and a grizzly bear.
Lions fresh from the jungle are preferred since native- born animals, used to the fawning of crowds, are easily distracted and lack the single-mindedness of wild beasts. First, the cats are taught to walk down the ramp, with a collar and chain being applied to animals in cases where they, are slow to respond.
http://cambridge.dlconsulting.com/cg...l+jacobs-----#
So Terrell jacobs worked with over 2,000 lions and tigers, preferred wild instead of captive raised, seen many fights with the lion usually winning and favors the lion against a tiger and a grizzly bear.
Tigers are really cool looking beast though. And good to know there numbers are steadily rising.
As for their weights, the siberian tiger of modern, shows he is only in the 170 kg range:
pt28, adult male tiger 7 years of age october, 16, 1998. weight: 200 kg.
pt22, adult male tiger 6 years of age, 3, 1999. weight: 126 kg.
pt82, adult male tiger 12 - 16 years of age, october, 26, 2006. weight: 180 kg.
pt84, adult male tiger 5 - 6 years of age, november, 10, 2006. weight: 179 kg.
pt16, adult male 7 - 8 years of age 14 - 16 february, 1998. weight: 198. kg.
pt20, adult male tiger 9 - 11 years of age march 1998, weight then 170 kg.
pt9, adult male tiger 4 - 5 years of age november 10, 1993. weight then (175 kg).
pt12, adult male tiger 6 - 7 years of age, november 1, 1995. weight: 200 kg).
data from;
http://www.nfwf.org/Content/ContentFolders2/SavetheTigerFund/Grants/1998/1998-0093-056.01.pdf
3 males captured
http://www.greenkorea.org/zb/data/r..._of_Amur_Tigers_&_Leopards_in_SW_Primorye.pdf
2 males captured
http://www.nfwf.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=8740&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm
2 males captured
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/brentlion_2008/brentonlion/weightoftigers-1-1.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/brentlion_2008/brentonlion/weightoftigers2-1.jpg
2 males captured
a healthy, 385 lb male siberian
I mean its not like some massive mystery, there aren't like 10,000 unweighed siberian tigers, theres only a population of about 400, hence majority have been weighed pegging in at 173 kg according to biolgist smith, miqule, the siberian tiger conservationist, baikov, igor, sunquist, schaller, and many other biologist. But to be fair, we take them historically, so a again, a 500 lb siberian is prime, 600 lb'ers are exceptional, and 700+ lb amurs are once in a life time type...the same can be said with lions, I dont see any records that show lions dont reach the same type of sizes, in fact lions seem to hit these weights more often compared to their overall sub-species combined.
So in all, I dont see why the need to hype up or over-exaggerate their size ranges, take it as it is, both are similar in size. It will be upon how many records show any either or winning more. I hardly see anything showing tigers winning historically.
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Whats interesting about this debate is, both come from lands of snow, the barbary lion also known as the Atlas lion, could transverse from desert saharas to snowy mountains, this is probably why the barbary lion had such a big mane, no other lion can be found this high up, and both lion and tigers in the north seem to have thicker and longer fur and manes comapred to others. Even less of the barbary lions weights are known than the amurs, but going by little there is, the barbary was the biggest lion there was.
-large-picture.jpg)
BEATTY does not know that lions and
tigers hate each other. "I have had
many lion-tiger battles in my arena, but
they have always been gang fights. Nellie,
one of the fiercest tigers I ever worked with,
was killed a few years ago in a fight in which
eight lions faced two tigers. On another
occasion there was a pitched battle between
seventeen lions and twelve tigers. Three
tigers were killed in this fight and some of
the lions badly mauled." (And in the mid-
dle was Beatty!)
Full text of "Movie Classic (Mar-Jul 1933)"
So as you can see the poster shows a lion defeating a tiger, the film shows the lion defeating the tiger, and Beatty yells out Nellie... Clyde beatty said the tigress Nellie was killed in a gang fight, according to the film, tommy was fighting gracie and Sammy was fighting Nellie, via a gang fight, hence this shows that in these gang fights that the numbers were even in the combatants or in other words, the film does not show the rest of the lions pitching in.
Whats obviously flawed about the roman arenas, is that I would assume they would use many animals at a time, lions have a predatory advantage when grouping up, sometimes even non-relatives will band together and help the cause in a fight, while tigers wouldnt help or save their own kind. So that shines a light on which animal would come out the victor more often in terms of the romans.
One could argue that the tigress Nellie was a female hence a push over, but the facts leads to, the females are the superiors, more game, more skilled and like male lions who protect the cubs, the tigresses are the ones endowed with this trait not male tigers, adding in gameness. But that specific tigress nellie was no push over, as she survived altercations with a russian bear, unfortunately a cage mate tiger didnt:
Clyde beatty and one of his bears:
Garden City, New York, 1965, p. 279-280
“I’ve trained and handled plenty of bears…but I’ve never known a member of the species to match the brutish feat of Bill, a big brown Russian bear that I was using in a mixed group which included, in addition to him and three other Russians, an assortment of leopards, tigers, pumas, lions and hyenas….
大意: 我 (Clyde Beatty) 训练过许多熊, 但是我从来没有听说过有哪只棕熊
能和俄国大棕熊 Bill 的残暴的成就相比...
…
The bears and tigers grew to hate one another. There was a continual growling and snarling when they were in the arena together. Bill was becoming a moody Russian by reason of three successive paw-cloutings and nippings administered by Nellie, a tigress that had no use for bears and made no bones about it. Bill never had a chance to get back at Nellie, but he had a fine opportunity one day to avenge himself on Lil, the other tiger in the act, and he took advantage of it with surprising speed and effectiveness. It was something that had never happened before---at least, nothing like it appears anywhere in the annals of animal training---and perhaps it will never happen again.
大意: 俄国大棕熊 Bill 被母老虎 Nellie 一连三次以利爪修理, 却找不到机会报
仇, 但机会终於来了, 报复在另一只母老虎 Lil 身上…
…
…The boy whose job it was to hook this seat in place had been careless and it had come loose. Down toppled Lil, landing right in front of Bill’s pedestal. In a split second the bear made a leap for the sprawling tigress, grabbing her from behind by the neck. Bill had one of those unbreakable holds, and he snapped the big cat’s neck before she had a chance to defend herself. Lil died a few minutes afterward. Needless to say, the bear had a tremendous advantage in this brief encounter, but the occurrence astonished me none the less. While Bill was sure to have a big early edge when he attacked under the circumstances described, the chances were a hundred to one against his quickly getting that unbreakable hold. If he didn’t succeed in doing this, he was a goner, for tigers are lightning fast and Lil would have quickly brought her claws and teeth into play and made an end of that overambitious bear.”
大意: 棕熊 Bill 偷袭母老虎 Lil 成功了, 可能性只有百分之一. 不成功就只有被杀
的份…
So bill the bear killed a tiger and Clydes other bear doris killed two tigers, a tigress and her mate tim:
3 tigers were killed by Clydes bears, yet Beatty holds the opinion that he thinks a bear is no match for a lion.
Clyde beatty and one of his bears:
Garden City, New York, 1965, p. 279-280
“I’ve trained and handled plenty of bears…but I’ve never known a member of the species to match the brutish feat of Bill, a big brown Russian bear that I was using in a mixed group which included, in addition to him and three other Russians, an assortment of leopards, tigers, pumas, lions and hyenas….
大意: 我 (Clyde Beatty) 训练过许多熊, 但是我从来没有听说过有哪只棕熊
能和俄国大棕熊 Bill 的残暴的成就相比...
…
The bears and tigers grew to hate one another. There was a continual growling and snarling when they were in the arena together. Bill was becoming a moody Russian by reason of three successive paw-cloutings and nippings administered by Nellie, a tigress that had no use for bears and made no bones about it. Bill never had a chance to get back at Nellie, but he had a fine opportunity one day to avenge himself on Lil, the other tiger in the act, and he took advantage of it with surprising speed and effectiveness. It was something that had never happened before---at least, nothing like it appears anywhere in the annals of animal training---and perhaps it will never happen again.
大意: 俄国大棕熊 Bill 被母老虎 Nellie 一连三次以利爪修理, 却找不到机会报
仇, 但机会终於来了, 报复在另一只母老虎 Lil 身上…
…
…The boy whose job it was to hook this seat in place had been careless and it had come loose. Down toppled Lil, landing right in front of Bill’s pedestal. In a split second the bear made a leap for the sprawling tigress, grabbing her from behind by the neck. Bill had one of those unbreakable holds, and he snapped the big cat’s neck before she had a chance to defend herself. Lil died a few minutes afterward. Needless to say, the bear had a tremendous advantage in this brief encounter, but the occurrence astonished me none the less. While Bill was sure to have a big early edge when he attacked under the circumstances described, the chances were a hundred to one against his quickly getting that unbreakable hold. If he didn’t succeed in doing this, he was a goner, for tigers are lightning fast and Lil would have quickly brought her claws and teeth into play and made an end of that overambitious bear.”
大意: 棕熊 Bill 偷袭母老虎 Lil 成功了, 可能性只有百分之一. 不成功就只有被杀
的份…
So bill the bear killed a tiger and Clydes other bear doris killed two tigers, a tigress and her mate tim:
3 tigers were killed by Clydes bears, yet Beatty holds the opinion that he thinks a bear is no match for a lion.
The comments are pretty funny, apparently Siberian tigers are twice as big as lions, which would mean.
2x bigger in:
Lions height 4 feet...siberian tigers would be 8 feet at the shoulders
Lion standing 8 feet tall on hind legs...siberian tigers would stand 16 feet tall
Lions length, 9 feet long...siberian tigers would be 18 feet long
Lions fangs 3 inchs long...siberian tigers would have 6 inch fangs
Lions average weight 400 lbs...siberian tigers would average 800 lbs
Lions max weights 1,000 lbs...siberian tigers would max out at 2,000 lbs
These kind of things are all laughable when science brings them together to be studied.
General Mills
More often than not I tend to take that L.
That mane may be the equalizer that the lion needs to squeak out a victory.
662 pound lion stardust circus
Lions can grow to 900 pounds
Soft Animals A to Z
Jungle Island is a zoo-like attraction that allows interaction with many different animals, such as a 900-pound lion,
Miami Attractions for Children
Finally when I had lost consciousness one of the party sneaked up and placed the muzzle of his gun at the lions ear and let her go killing him instantly I was three months recovering and then three of my ribs were crushed and this arm was a reminder The lion weighed 900 pounds and measured over seven feet
The Salt Lake Herald from Salt Lake City, Utah · Page 1
If a wild lion can be pegged at 900 pounds, I think you can easily have obese lions in captivity that breach the 1,200 lb range. But these dont represent a prime fit lion.