Art of War by Sun Tzu

[OsO]

But that aside, a nation of our power doesn't "lose" wars, rather we decide the cost of victory is too high and concede. The popular idea that nation capable of removing entire cities from the map, was outmatched by gorilla tactics is silly.

that's a really excellent point, and 100% correct.

but it's also true we lost.

to concede=to yield=we lose

 

[Brown_Pride]

Dark Knight quote says it best.

Some people just want to see the world burn. Call them evil, call them sociopaths. You can't negotiate with these people. Chaos and destruction is their only motive. Many people died saying lets avoid war with Hitler or Saddam, lets try more peaceful channels.

The books are interesting, but way too basic, and scheming is an art that you have to practice, but its not a necessary science. I rarely feel the need to scheme, because I'm not surrounded by schemers, also there is not some prize I have to get by outmaneuvering someone.

Even I love Robert Greene's books, it was mostly for entertainment purposes. I found Dale Carnegie to be a better read than Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, and Robert Greene.

I couldn't agree more. Scheming is an art form some people are just more naturally inclined to think certain things and see certain things. Just like drawing a tree, i mean a really solid good tree. I can't do that shyt to save my life, BUT i've taken an are class or two so i can draw a better tree NOW than prior to taking those classes. Same thing with strategy. You can learn to be better strategist, but those who are truly artists at it would have been so regardless of the books they read, which is why Machiavelli and Sun Tzu existed in the first place, they are artist at war and human manipulation.

People who love power IMHO tend to be naturally inclined at this artform.

 

[the cac mamba]

Stopping communism was an unattainable goal. If that is the metric your using we loss before firing a shot.

I still hold that we are unbeaten in war.

you can say we didnt lose, but we DEF didnt win

kinda like jay-z in the battle

 

[Suicide King]

I couldn't agree more. Scheming is an art form some people are just more naturally inclined to think certain things and see certain things. Just like drawing a tree, i mean a really solid good tree. I can't do that shyt to save my life, BUT i've taken an are class or two so i can draw a better tree NOW than prior to taking those classes. Same thing with strategy. You can learn to be better strategist, but those who are truly artists at it would have been so regardless of the books they read, which is why Machiavelli and Sun Tzu existed in the first place, they are artist at war and human manipulation.

People who love power IMHO tend to be naturally inclined at this artform.

So, true.

Its a psychological game that people in politics, law enforcement, and business can do in their sleep without ever hearing about Sun Tzu.

I can spot schemers miles away because I grew up in a neighborhood with a bunch of low lives who did nothing but run game. This is why these books were mostly entertainment to me, because it didn't open up a whole new world to me...the main strategy in this art is to be able to spot strength and human weakness.

The best advice they give for self-defense against schemers is to know yourself and be suspicions of anyone who causes you to be full of doubt, this is a huge red flag of a manipulator.

Also, the reason I say these books are basic because it tells you what you need to do, it never tells you how to accomplish this goal. I read books by former FBI agents, ex CIA, ex military interrogators that dig a lot deeper because they go in-depth describing the sickest and most dangerous minds.

 

[DEAD7]

that's a really excellent point, and 100% correct.

but it's also true we lost.

to concede=to yield=we lose

Fair enough.

But my nationalist streak will never allow me to verbalize anything close to that.

 

[Brown_Pride]

So, true.

Its a psychological game that people in politics, law enforcement, and business can do in their sleep without ever hearing about Sun Tzu.

I can spot schemers miles away because I grew up in a neighborhood with a bunch of low lives who did nothing but run game. This is why these books were mostly entertainment to me, because it didn't open up a whole new world to me...the main strategy in this art is to be able to spot strength and human weakness.

The best advice they give for self-defense against schemers is to know yourself and be suspicions of anyone who causes you to be full of doubt, this is a huge red flag of a manipulator.

Also, the reason I say these books are basic because it tells you what you need to do, it never tells you how to accomplish this goal. I read books by former FBI agents, ex CIA, ex military interrogators that dig a lot deeper because they go in-depth describing the sickest and most dangerous minds.

yeah i grew up with a father who was a schemer so i know all the tricks of the trade. It's actually funny to watch play out when it's not for anything horrible.

I also took a few sales courses when I was a car salesman and when you couple with more details on how to phsycologically mess with someone or lead them or make them doubt the value of something, (e.g. their trade in) it's all done on a very subtle tip, the dance of it all can be very fun to watch, it's like a magic trick almost.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Fair enough.

But my nationalist streak will never allow me to verbalize anything close to that.

the first step is to realize you have a problem.

 

[Blackking]

Fair enough.

But my nationalist streak will never allow me to verbalize anything close to that.

I respect this post...

 

[Vandelay]

Which translation do you guys suggest?

There are several books out there that have all or the most popular translations included in one book, make sure you get a book that has multiple translations.

Where did you read that about him not existing?!?!

Also, you don't need these books I guess.... but it's not like people just know this shyt....

Strategy' isn't usually prefect even by the most educated amongst us... I see this shyt daily, I have 1 partner who is Italian.. that dude out strategies people, fukking loops around people and its easy because he's study all of this.

And if it's common sense, y aren't all world leaders on it? It's said that most of the bloodshed in modern wars could have been avoided had everyone been following this.

Hes thinking Lao Tzu the "author" of Tao De Ching.

We didnt "lose" Vietnam, but interesting post none the less.and you do have to be careful with the translation.

We defintely didnt lose...ask anybody that fought in this war how ass-backward we approached this war. People can say many things about America, but having a weak army aint one of them. We backed out because of politics, unpopularity, and the potential mother russia or red china would have hopped in if we blew up one of their supply trains supporting the VC.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

you wanna battle for cash and see who's Sun Tzu?

 

[Blackking]

We defintely didnt lose...ask anybody that fought in this war how ass-backward we approached this war. People can say many things about America, but having a weak army aint one of them. We backed out because of politics, unpopularity, and the potential mother russia or red china would have hopped in if we blew up one of their supply trains supporting the VC.

Wars aren't only fought with bullets. Most of the battle is without shooting..

 

[Suicide King]

yeah i grew up with a father who was a schemer so i know all the tricks of the trade. It's actually funny to watch play out when it's not for anything horrible.

I also took a few sales courses when I was a car salesman and when you couple with more details on how to phsycologically mess with someone or lead them or make them doubt the value of something, (e.g. their trade in) it's all done on a very subtle tip, the dance of it all can be very fun to watch, it's like a magic trick almost.

So, true. Its a slight of hand, where you develop a velvet touch.

This is why I liked to read books by ex military and ex law enforcement, because they tell you how they outsmarted a Machiavelli or Sun Tzu and they really go in-depth on how the enemy mind works, @ the gems ex military interrogators or ex FBI will give you. I never wanted to be a schemer, I just wanted to beat them.

I'll give these books one thing, they teach you the importance of thinking ahead.

 

[Mr.Black]

oh the book that idiots use as a reference point to appear smart

 

[zerozero]

This argument that the US didn't lose vietnam or someplace else cause they chose to give up is very ahistorical. Most wars are like that. It's a mistake to think that the win or loss of the average war involves monomaniacal effort by the parties until one country is totally finished.

 

[Blackking]

I've noticed that many people who hate on the principles of strategy either can't fully see it's benefits or simple don't have that touch themselves so they're hating.