Are we turning this sub back into the DSA safe space?

[acri1]

This is why Republicans always win.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

This is why Republicans always win.

Republicans always win because their base likes white supremacy and don’t care about anything else but white supremacy

 

[Shogun]

Sure but that mostly stems from the media using the term “liberal” so loosely. Like no progressive or true socialist wants to get lumped into the same category as center right/right wing goons like Sinema, Manchin, Biden, Harris or HL’s very own @Pressure

To them it’s disrespectful to their beliefs. At least that’s the way I feel about it. Personally I have a set of things I’m completely unwilling to bend or break on as I see them as human
Rights that should be granted to everyone. “Liberals” have never really shown themselves to have that Kind of conviction which is what my big problem has always been with them.

Kamala Harris is like a prime example of this. How can I trust a former prosecutor who made her name doing shyt like locking up parents for things like truancy and fighting to keep people in jail who have served their time to lead the charge on something like justice reform?

She’s not someone who has any interest in changing that system despite what the standard media or right wing media (it’s all pretty right wing in terms of messaging) tells you because she’s thought of as a “liberal”.

That's the thing, I don't disagree with the spirit of your point. And, frankly, I'm far from anti-socialist, it's just from my reading of the term I have trouble understanding how America can reasonably get there....which is why I tend to raise those points. I'm not preaching, or trying to win some sort of existential political battle, or an agent. I'm just skeptical of whether America can actually make socialism happen, and am looking to discuss it.

So, to that end....

When you say "true Socialist", I'm not sure if there's a general agreed upon meaning that you're referencing or if its your personal distinction, but the European models are usually brought up as an example, which is fine, but seems incomplete. If we're going to expand our discussion beyond America to only include the most socialist of countries then yes, you can paint Kamala Harris as some ideological threat. But where does Harris fall if we're going to expand our discussion to include all countries? Certainly not a right wing goon...

One last point where I'm curious when it comes to socialism in America: from what I understand, historically, Democratic Socialism took root in Europe only after Europe destroyed itself in WW1 and especially WW2. Entire communities were killed, made homeless and/or relocated, infrastructure was obliterated, etc. In the wake of that tragedy, socialist policies made a lot of sense. To my mind, a similar catastrophe would have to happen in America to get there....which doesn't seem to necessarily be something we should be hoping for.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

That's the thing, I don't disagree with the spirit of your point. And, frankly, I'm far from anti-socialist, it's just from my reading of the term I have trouble understanding how America can reasonably get there....which is why I tend to raise those points. I'm not preaching, or trying to win some sort of existential political battle, or an agent. I'm just skeptical of whether America can actually make socialism happen, and am looking to discuss it.

So, to that end....

When you say "true Socialist", I'm not sure if there's a general agreed upon meaning that you're referencing or if its your personal distinction, but the European models are usually brought up as an example, which is fine, but seems incomplete. If we're going to expand our discussion beyond America to only include the most socialist of countries then yes, you can paint Kamala Harris as some ideological threat. But where does Harris fall if we're going to expand our discussion to include all countries? Certainly not a right wing goon...

One last point where I'm curious when it comes to socialism in America: from what I understand, historically, Democratic Socialism took root in Europe only after Europe destroyed itself in WW1 and especially WW2. Entire communities were killed, made homeless and/or relocated, infrastructure was obliterated, etc. In the wake of that tragedy, socialist policies made a lot of sense. To my mind, a similar catastrophe would have to happen in America to get there....which doesn't seem to necessarily be something we should be hoping for.

I mean everyone even leftists are skeptical if we’ll ever see a true leftist policy driven government in our time. Especially since we’re going backwards which is by no fault of leftists in this country who haven’t had any kind of real power since FDR. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep fighting for it though.

When I say true socialist I’m mostly saying that to give a division in terms of what were talking about between democratic socialism(progressives) and the kind of socialism that involves nationalizing private industry which is something you’d never see a democratic socialist ever campaign or even push within the halls of government.

I don’t even think someone who’s center right like Harris is even a true “ideological threat” I was morso pointing out that she cannot and should not be lumped in with say Bernie Sanders or Illhan Omar in terms of ideology by just referring to all three as liberals because her beliefs are vastly different.

I mean we’re probably on the same page when it comes to your last point. I’ve long asked the question “how many deaths do you believe it would take to get humanity to come together for the greater good.” Star Trek’s answer is 600+ million in WW3.

America still has people pushing right wing ideology after that very same ideology got 1 million+ people killed during Covid. It would most likely have to take a catastrophic disaster to bush far right ideology permanently.

 

[Shogun]

I mean everyone even leftists are skeptical if we’ll ever see a true leftist policy driven government in our time. Especially since we’re going backwards which is by no fault of leftists in this country who haven’t had any kind of real power since FDR. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep fighting for it though.

When I say true socialist I’m mostly saying that to give a division in terms of what were talking about between democratic socialism(progressives) and the kind of socialism that involves nationalizing private industry which is something you’d never see a democratic socialist ever campaign or even push within the halls of government.

I don’t even think someone who’s center right like Harris is even a true “ideological threat” I was morso pointing out that she cannot and should not be lumped in with say Bernie Sanders or Illhan Omar in terms of ideology by just referring to all three as liberals because her beliefs are vastly different.

I mean we’re probably on the same page when it comes to your last point. I’ve long asked the question “how many deaths do you believe it would take to get humanity to come together for the greater good.” Star Trek’s answer is 600+ million in WW3.

America still has people pushing right wing ideology after that very same ideology got 1 million+ people killed during Covid. It would most likely have to take a catastrophic disaster to bush far right ideology permanently.

 

[Pressure]

Sure but that mostly stems from the media using the term “liberal” so loosely. Like no progressive or true socialist wants to get lumped into the same category as center right/right wing goons like Sinema, Manchin, Biden, Harris or HL’s very own @Pressure

My politics are center left. That isn't debatable.