Answer to the eternal question - How to fund Medicare For All (Wonky)

[Dorian Breh]

Wait there's people in here making arguments about rationing and shortages?

Pathetic.

 

[Dorian Breh]

Yeah I don't get why people all of a sudden think these prices are gonna go down if the government is the sole negotiator. As if the greed and corruption will all of a sudden stop. It's the same government who allowed this industry to get out of hand. Same people.

Look at how out of control Defense spending is and the government is the sole negotiator with defense companies. Why do people think it will be different?

This is a very stupid argument. The way that prices would go down is because the customer (US citizens with universal healthcare) says so and the seller can't sell their pills to anyone else.

That's how negotiation works. Some pharma company wants to play hardball and withholding meds, well they better be ready not to make any money because there's no one else to sell them to in the US.

The military industrial complex requires fixing as well but is not related to this argument. The cause is clearly graft and corruption. The current healthcare industry that we have today is rife with graft and corruption which drive up costs for customers. Let's not pretend the system works.

 

[Copy Ninja]

This is a very stupid argument. The way that prices would go down is because the customer (US citizens with universal healthcare) says so and the seller can't sell their pills to anyone else.

That's how negotiation works. Some pharma company wants to play hardball and withholding meds, well they better be ready not to make any money because there's no one else to sell them to in the US.

The military industrial complex requires fixing as well but is not related to this argument. The cause is clearly graft and corruption. The current healthcare industry that we have today is rife with graft and corruption which drive up costs for customers. Let's not pretend the system works.

The sole negotiator is the government. You really think your part of the negotiating process?

What makes you think they'll do what's best for consumers and not the companies when they don't do that for any other industry they have their hand in?

 

[Dorian Breh]

The sole negotiator is the government.

What makes you think they'll do what's best for consumers and not the companies when they don't do that for any other industry they have their hand in?

So because graft exists, destroy the government?

Or perhaps in addition to socializing health care reforms could be passed to cut down on graft and corruption which as you have said, is a widespread problem.

Perhaps the government would not always do the best job in negotiations with private healthcare companies.

But currently the negotiations occur between 2 private health care companies, and they are negotiating for how best to fukk over the customer together.

Why does that seems like a good set up to you?

 

[Copy Ninja]

So because graft exists, destroy the government?

Or perhaps in addition to socializing health care reforms could be passed to cut down on graft and corruption which as you have said, is a widespread problem.

Perhaps the government would not always do the best job in negotiations with private healthcare companies.

But currently the negotiations occur between 2 private health care companies, and they are negotiating for how best to fukk over the customer together.

Why does that seems like a good set up to you?

The government being the sole negotiator basically is giving the same guys who have created the corrupt system more control. You see how insane that sounds?

If they really want to cut corruption they can do that now by passing stricter regulations.

 

[Dorian Breh]

The government being the sole negotiator basically is giving the same guys who have created the corrupt system more control. You see how insane that sounds?

If they really want to cut corruption they can do that now by passing stricter regulations.

The people who created the corrupt system are the executives at the pharmaceutical companies who corrupted the politician through bribes, coercion and extortion.

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

A 4% tax on the middle and upper middle class pretty much makes this DOA.

4 percent income-based premium paid by households Revenue raised: $3.5 trillion over ten years. The typical middle class family would save over $4,400 under this plan. Last year the typical working family paid an average of $5,277 in premiums to private health insurance companies. Under this option, a typical family of four earning $50,000, after taking the standard deduction, would pay a 4 percent income-based premium to fund Medicare for All – just $844 a year – saving that family over $4,400 a year. Because of the standard deduction, families of four making less than $29,000 a year would not pay this premium.

One of my employees makes $11.00 an hour. She pays $254 per pay period for health insurance for her and her daughter. That's over $6000 per year.

Under Medicare for all, if they deducted 4% from her check, it would be $31.41 cents.


My assistant manager makes $75k a year. She pays $54 a month for health insurance, just for herself.

Under Medicare for all, she would pay $107.

So obviously, if you make more, you pay more, but it's all relative.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

oh look. Bernie is dodging... AGAIN!








@wire28 @Th3G3ntleman @ezrathegreat @Jello Biafra @humble forever @Darth Nubian @Dameon Farrow @Piff Perkins @BigMoneyGrip @Pressure @johnedwarduado @Armchair Militant @panopticon @88m3 @Tres Leches @ADevilYouKhow @dtownreppin214 @A.R.$

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

oh look. Bernie is dodging... AGAIN!








@wire28 @Th3G3ntleman @ezrathegreat @Jello Biafra @humble forever @Darth Nubian @Dameon Farrow @Piff Perkins @BigMoneyGrip @Pressure @johnedwarduado @Armchair Militant @panopticon @88m3 @Tres Leches @ADevilYouKhow @dtownreppin214 @A.R.$

They want exact numbers.

Student loan debt is about $1.5 trillion.

The government gave banks half that in one foul swoop like it was nothing.

Ford borrowed 5.9 billion and has until 2022 to pay off the remaining balance.


But I digress.


At the end of the day how are you going to pay for it is a dumb question. The real question should be how long will it take to pay for it because finding the money isn't the problem.

If people vote for him and the Democrats win back the Senate and keep the House, then you can actually start asking these questions because that's the only way any of these plans will gain traction.

 

[Copy Ninja]

The people who created the corrupt system are the executives at the pharmaceutical companies who corrupted the politician through bribes, coercion and extortion.

It's the politicians who are corrupt because they're supposed to be representing their constituents. Those executives are trying to increase profit margins for their companies. It's up to the politicians to make sure they don't violate anti trust laws or create regulations to protect consumers.

So I'm gonna ask you why do you trust those same politicians to negotiate in your best interests when they haven't done so?

 

[Oldschooler]

It's the politicians who are corrupt because they're supposed to be representing their constituents. Those executives are trying to increase profit margins for their companies. It's up to the politicians to make sure they don't violate anti trust laws or create regulations to protect consumers.

So I'm gonna ask you why do you trust those same politicians to negotiate in your best interests when they haven't done so?

This is a very simple question to answer. The executives are in it for profit and answer to their share holders. Their end goal is to maximize profits. Whether they do that through questionable means doesn't matter for the average share holder as they just got richer. If they get caught in a corruption scandal - throw them in jail and hire the next greedy executive, rinse and repeat. Shareholders are happy.

Where as the government is supposed to be a non-profit organization. Governments do things all the time where they lose money to benefit things like science and humanity. The greater good as they say. If a politician ends up on the dark side with their hands on the cookie jar than the whole establishment is in danger and their policies can always be toppled.

What you should argue for is government employees being lazy and ineffective because no one will pressure them or there isn't really any consequences to them fukkin up because it's the tax payers money. Less pressure to perform basically.

 

[OfTheCross]

Compare Medicare-for-all and Public Plan Proposals

 

[chico25]

The government being the sole negotiator basically is giving the same guys who have created the corrupt system more control. You see how insane that sounds?

If they really want to cut corruption they can do that now by passing stricter regulations.

It's the politicians who are corrupt because they're supposed to be representing their constituents. Those executives are trying to increase profit margins for their companies. It's up to the politicians to make sure they don't violate anti trust laws or create regulations to protect consumers.

So I'm gonna ask you why do you trust those same politicians to negotiate in your best interests when they haven't done so?

If we get Medicare for all and prices balloon out of control it won't necessarily matter. Corrupt politicians aren't going to cut money going to the hospital industry that's funding them so we as consumers won't have to worry about our care not being paid for. Taxes to pay for the plan won't necessarily go up because no politician is going to want to take the political hit of being the one to raise taxes, so even if costs don't go down for services the American people are still saving money in their pockets, even as the deficit increases.

This will all most likely be moot, because the only way we get Medicare for all passed is to vote out corrupt politicians and put in better ones without ties to those industries and get money out of politics all together.

 

[Copy Ninja]

If we get Medicare for all and prices balloon out of control it won't necessarily matter. Corrupt politicians aren't going to cut money going to the hospital industry that's funding them so we as consumers won't have to worry about our care not being paid for. Taxes to pay for the plan won't necessarily go up because no politician is going to want to take the political hit of being the one to raise taxes, so even if costs don't go down for services the American people are still saving money in their pockets, even as the deficit increases.

This will all most likely be moot, because the only way we get Medicare for all passed is to vote out corrupt politicians and put in better ones without ties to those industries and get money out of politics all together.

I don't agree with your first point. If the prices balloon out of control i don't see why you think it won't matter. They have to be paid, whether it's through increased taxes or using funds from other programs. Ultimately people will be affected.

Agree with your second point.

 

[chico25]

I don't agree with your first point. If the prices balloon out of control i don't see why you think it won't matter. They have to be paid, whether it's through increased taxes or using funds from other programs. Ultimately people will be affected.

Agree with your second point.

The fact is we are currently running a trillion dollar deficit but still increased the military budget by a few billion dollars and Republicans are still talking about cutting taxes further. These people don't care about paying for things, they just hate seeing poor people get anything, but if the only way rich people can get health care is through the system and corporations are profiting from the system the corrupt politicians would keep it funded.