Secure Da Bag
Veteran
I'll take years of studies and tests over your uneducated need for instant gratification because you think nothing is gonna happen.
An mRNA vaccine tested by BioNTech shows early promise against pancreatic cancer
- Thread starter bnew
- Start date
I'll take years of studies and tests over your uneducated need for instant gratification because you think nothing is gonna happen.
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
More on the mRNA front:
Long-sought universal flu vaccine: mRNA-based candidate enters clinical trial
The phase I trial will test safety and efficacy in a small number of people.
arstechnica.com
storyteller
Veteran
Less than a year of research and then got put out for public consumption. Vaccine research normally takes far longer.
I had to come to work every day and never got COVID. In fact, I stayed 6 feet away and wore a mask.
So no. I'm not the problem.
So the 10 year vaccine development thing has always struck me as the most plausible thing an average person would worry about, but also one of the most easily explained. Let's start with the one chart that shows the normal process:
Now, there are two big reasons that they were able to accelerate the review process in COVID vaccine development.
1) Discovery Research (2-5 yrs) had already been done. So the biggest factor in cutting down the vaccine development time is that the discovery process for MRNA vaccines had been done for a long time. MRNA research goes back to the 70's, and using MRNA vaccines on respiratory illnesses had been explored for decades. So the technology was known, and the steps to developing a vax specific to Covid-19 were simplified as a result. That cuts as much as 5 years from the regular time table.
2) They stacked the clinical trials on top of each other. So open the spoiler and check the pre-clinical and clinical development steps and timelines. Each clinical trial watches for a different aspect of the vaccine "is it safe?" "does it activate immune response?" "does it protect against the disease?" are their own exclusive questions. You don't HAVE to test each out linearly, assuming you have enough researchers. The reason they're tested one at a time is to save money. If it's not safe, there's no need to pay researchers to see if it activates immune response, and so on.
But thanks to government funding, there was no worry about wasted money. So they tested for safety, immune response, and efficacy all at once. There weren't any steps skipped, they didn't change how each phase would be reviewed, they just spent the money to test everything at the same time. Additionally, they were able to trim the review times because the testing cohort was so large (again, this was mostly because money wasn't an issue).
So you erase the discovery part that takes 5 years, then you stack all the reviews and do them simultaneously. You've sped up the process without skipping any steps or cheating the process. All your left with is "regulatory review and approval" which has no relation to the safety reviews, and thus can be cut or rushed without anything to worry about for the people.
That's how a 10-year process can be cut down to about 1 year for the cohorts in most danger, and around 1 and a half for the rest of the populace. The 10-year process is a result of costs vs profits (MRNA development got shelved for a while because of lack of expected profitability btw). By subsidizing the costs, none of the profit risks existed and the vaccine was developed much more rapidly.
Disclaimer: This is me simplifying the process quite a bit, but I think it's pretty easy to follow as I've laid it out. Here's a bit more in-depth look:
Operation Warp Speed: Accelerated COVID-19 Vaccine Development Status and Efforts to Address Manufacturing Challenges
Operation Warp Speed was a federal effort that supported multiple COVID-19 vaccine candidates to speed up development. We analyzed the program's...
Secure Da Bag
Veteran
So the 10 year vaccine development thing has always struck me as the most plausible thing an average person would worry about, but also one of the most easily explained. Let's start with the one chart that shows the normal process:
Now, there are two big reasons that they were able to accelerate the review process in COVID vaccine development.
1) Discovery Research (2-5 yrs) had already been done. So the biggest factor in cutting down the vaccine development time is that the discovery process for MRNA vaccines had been done for a long time. MRNA research goes back to the 70's, and using MRNA vaccines on respiratory illnesses had been explored for decades. So the technology was known, and the steps to developing a vax specific to Covid-19 were simplified as a result. That cuts as much as 5 years from the regular time table.
2) They stacked the clinical trials on top of each other. So open the spoiler and check the pre-clinical and clinical development steps and timelines. Each clinical trial watches for a different aspect of the vaccine "is it safe?" "does it activate immune response?" "does it protect against the disease?" are their own exclusive questions. You don't HAVE to test each out linearly, assuming you have enough researchers. The reason they're tested one at a time is to save money. If it's not safe, there's no need to pay researchers to see if it activates immune response, and so on.
But thanks to government funding, there was no worry about wasted money. So they tested for safety, immune response, and efficacy all at once. There weren't any steps skipped, they didn't change how each phase would be reviewed, they just spent the money to test everything at the same time. Additionally, they were able to trim the review times because the testing cohort was so large (again, this was mostly because money wasn't an issue).
So you erase the discovery part that takes 5 years, then you stack all the reviews and do them simultaneously. You've sped up the process without skipping any steps or cheating the process. All your left with is "regulatory review and approval" which has no relation to the safety reviews, and thus can be cut or rushed without anything to worry about for the people.
That's how a 10-year process can be cut down to about 1 year for the cohorts in most danger, and around 1 and a half for the rest of the populace. The 10-year process is a result of costs vs profits (MRNA development got shelved for a while because of lack of expected profitability btw). By subsidizing the costs, none of the profit risks existed and the vaccine was developed much more rapidly.
Disclaimer: This is me simplifying the process quite a bit, but I think it's pretty easy to follow as I've laid it out. Here's a bit more in-depth look:
Operation Warp Speed: Accelerated COVID-19 Vaccine Development Status and Efforts to Address Manufacturing Challenges
Operation Warp Speed was a federal effort that supported multiple COVID-19 vaccine candidates to speed up development. We analyzed the program's...www.gao.gov
Thank you. For at least providing some factual evidence for what you're saying. I'll read later today.
Bboystyle
Bang Bang Packers gang!
Let me put it in terms so u can understand better. Covid 19 came from the corona virus. Corona Virus has been studied for years. Its all a part of the SARS family which has been around for decades. I mean i dunno how much simpler I can put it unless u are ignorant to how this shyt works ( i actually do as i have a study in Mircobiology). The main part though is the way mRNA helped accelerate its production and the fact they weren't starting from scratch due to already having info on Corona Virus.You need to know what you're talking about. I said COVID-19 not coronavirus. Let me put it a different way. I said square not parallelogram. We're talking about a vaccine for a specific strain of a virus. That no one had an answer for. Flu vaccines are made the traditional way not using mRNA like the COVID-19 vaccine was. mRNA vaccine for COVID-19 had less than a year of testing. If you think the flu vaccine and the COVID-19 vaccine are the same, then you are in fact far too ignorant to be having this conversation.
For your own information, so at least next time you speak, it'll be factual and not a convoluted mess of misinformation.
try again
storyteller
Veteran
You have a valid concern, and one that I think media and people at-large didn't do a great job of explaining along the way. So, I get where you're coming from for sure. But I work at a medical library, so I've had this process broken down for me a few times which gave me peace of mind (and also made me frustrated about how much further along our medical science would be if not for financial constraints).
ill
Superstar
I love morons like you. Less than a year of research? U need to know that corona virus has been known and out for years prior to the pandemic. Its been apart of the SARs family for decades. This isnt some new found virus that came out. Its a new strain. They had basis and foundations to find a vaccine just like how the yearly flu vaccine is developed every year. But u dont see anyone crying about the flu vaccine being rushed on a yearly basis because it doesnt fit yall agenda
People cry about the flu vaccine because its out-dated by the time it comes to market and often times ineffective against the current strain of flu. Also, last I checked, flu shots weren't mandatory.
ill
Superstar
The fact you blindly trust pharmaceutical companies shows you don't understand why the FDA was created in the first place.
Real quick....how do you test a drug for long-term adverse effects if you skip the FDA panel and rush things to market?
instant gratification was practiced by those who didn't want to wear a mask or practice social distancing. probably a sizeable portion of those people are long-covid sufferers.
storyteller
Veteran
The scary thing about long term side effects of actually catching COVID is how much we really don't know. I remember laughing at a story about how people who caught COVID were much more likely to develop involuntary sleep movement (like when you're dreaming and your body actually moves, waking you up in the process). That sounded like a funny joint that I could throw on my podcast until the article mentioned that those involuntary movements being frequent has a pretty strong correlation with people developing Parkinson's. The article went from a funny weird thing to, "COVID might be a ticking timebomb that this generation doesn't understand the impacts from for a very long time"instant gratification was practiced by those who didn't want to wear a mask or practice social distancing. probably a sizeable portion of those people are long-covid sufferers.
it's the unknown that concerns me, some people have killed themselves after experiencing long-covid effects and not knowing if and when it'll get better.
It wasn't a rush job. They just enrolled more people sooner than they would in later trials.
Clinical trials don't actually change the drug or intervention DURING the trial. They have the SAME drug but later phases just expand it to more people.
Covid skeptics can't pick an argument.
On one hand they're saying its a dangerous man made disease, then they're saying its not that serious.
I NEVER understood this.