Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - "Not All Dems Are The Same"

[AnonymityX1000]

I agree with your ICE statement, I don't even understand why any Black Americans would be for abolishing ICE. If it needs to change some of it's practices that fine but ICE wouldn't be necessary if people followed the laws of entering the US. This is like standing in teh line for the new gaming system and some ass hole jumps the line and everyone in the back is like okay wtf, then the dude lets 20 other people cut in front of him. Then the attendent says we only have 25 systems left. WTF....why should people in the line be pushed back for following the laws/rules? You need an enforcement agency otherwise just open the borders and let everyone in and suffer any consequences.

now where i probably don't agree with you, is all the promises of free stuff. It's bullshyt. There's a huge difference in spending money on defense (which employees citizens and gives them free education) vs spending money on free college. College is something you earn, through free education k-12. If you don't earn the right then you either pay the premium or you figure out another route.

I get that she's the new shiny toy in the room, but her and other Bernie Progressive views are naive and would hurt America long time. Just my 2 cents. But I also understand why certain people (minorities) are for them at the same token there needs ot be more personal responsibility injected in households and communities.

Military spending also makes contractors rich, kills people foreign and domestic, spies on people foreign and domestic and overthrows governments, some which were democratically elected. Destabilizing the world and creating US enemies abroad.
Free college is way more benign and would have social benefits, less people would get rich and we would have a more educated citizenry that would conduct themselves in a more responsible manner over time. And anyone can go to college if you can afford it, it's just which college. Academics who excel go to an ivy league while those that scrape by go to community college.

 

[afterlife2009]

i was wondering when the brain wormed liberals that consume 8 hours of cable news while scrolling twitter to start sliding in Putin into the conversation

Jen Kirkman is a loon and anybody that believes what Susan Sarandon said during the primary matters is a loon

we all knew what Nap meant when he said she wasn't "moving correctly". She pisses off the ppl with Mueller avis on twiiter. broken brains

 

[Perfectson]

Military spending also makes contractors rich, kills people foreign and domestic, spies on people foreign and domestic and overthrows governments, some which were democratically elected. Destabilizing the world and creating US enemies abroad.
Free college is way more benign and would have social benefits, less people would get rich and we would have a more educated citizenry that would conduct themselves in a more responsible manner over time. And anyone can go to college if you can afford it, it's just which college. Academics who excel go to an ivy league while those that scrape by go to community college.

How does college make a more educated citizenry, when we already have free school k-12 yet our academic scores continue to drop ? Progressives are idealist, there's nothing they use to back up what they say except how a utopian society should behave . Sounds buts there economics and dynamics behind everything.

Also you saying academics benign compared to military ....and how we make enemies . Tell me why did Japan attack pearl Harbor again? When we said we were neutral in the conflict? Those are the lessons that progressives refuse to understand.

This lady isn't probably qualified to be in office, hasn't had to make one decision that carries any importance in someones but was elected because she offered impoverished people free stuff. Let's be totally honest here. ..can we?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Abolishing ICE is different than repeal and replacing ICE.

That's my only issue. I'd prefer the latter. Or at least show a bill showing that's what she intends to do.

I like her as a politician. I just don't like the idea of an open-border policy floating around.

ICE does nothing to patrol the borders. Absolutely nothing. ICE and Border Patrol are two separate entities. So no, "abolish ICE" is NOT an open-border policy. I haven't heard AOC or any of the others calling for "abolish Border Patrol!"

I agree with your ICE statement, I don't even understand why any Black Americans would be for abolishing ICE. If it needs to change some of it's practices that fine but ICE wouldn't be necessary if people followed the laws of entering the US. This is like standing in teh line for the new gaming system and some ass hole jumps the line and everyone in the back is like okay wtf, then the dude lets 20 other people cut in front of him. Then the attendent says we only have 25 systems left. WTF....why should people in the line be pushed back for following the laws/rules? You need an enforcement agency otherwise just open the borders and let everyone in and suffer any consequences.

That's bullshyt for multiple reasons.

#1: The majority of people caught up in ICE did enter legally. Some overstayed their visas, some applied for asylum, some aren't even "illegal" at all, some are even citizens. And many of those who enter illegally have no practical "lines" that they can step into - our immigration system is quite difficult for a lot of people from a lot of places to get a foot in the door on.

#2: There is no generally accessible "line" and what lines do exist aren't being cut into by any illegal immigrants. No one is saying, "Well, X people entered the country illegally last year therefore we're taking X spots away from legal immigration." in fact, do you realize that the total # of illegal immigrants in the country peaked around 2008 and has DROPPED since then, meaning that there is MORE space available for everyone else? The entire issue is manufactured by the same people who used the Southern Strategy to activate White racist votes for decades. For most of world and American history, immigration was a natural phenomenon that was controlled by supply and demand. Every time it has been regulated outside of normal considerations (keeping out criminals, terrorists, and people who are diseased or infirm), it was for quite obviously racist reasons.

#3: No one thought ICE was necessary until 2004, when it was created as a response to terrorism. Before then the only people I had ever heard talking about a Gestapo-like agency acting entirely outside of the Department of Justice that rounds up dark-looking people with an accent on suspicion of "not belonging here" were far-right wackos on KFI in SoCal. Now we got people acting like it's a necessary

 

[Perfectson]

Scholarships are not guaranteed. Even those are limited. So you don't earn the right. More like you're privileged to go there for a discount.



None of it is free. It's just a shift of investments. Even with free college and free healthcare, you're saving money on healthcare and cost to businesses. Also a more educated population means more skilled workers. Therefore more opportunities to employ from within and not through immigration.

The free stuff narrative just doesn't hold up.

Of course scholarships aren't guaranteed , they are earned and there's several that actually go unused btw. If you make good grades in HS you will get a free ride somewhere.

You talk about shift in investments, making college free is only going to shift the status of a bachelor's degree and the same thing that happens in HS will happen in college. The undergrads in the free college will have a lackluster education while all the smart and we'll to do kids start shifting into private schools which will then be the pool of kids that companies hire from. We have some really low unemployment , kids are already having difficulty finding jobs with a BS...so let's give everyone one and make it harder for companies to discern credible candidates.

Again there's other dynamics at play...some kids don't need to be in college and should go other routes like technical or vocational schools or community college. Personal responsibility.

 

[Perfectson]

ICE does nothing to patrol the borders. Absolutely nothing. ICE and Border Patrol are two separate entities. So no, "abolish ICE" is NOT an open-border policy. I haven't heard AOC or any of the others calling for "abolish Border Patrol!"





That's bullshyt for multiple reasons.

#1: The majority of people caught up in ICE did enter legally. Some overstayed their visas, some applied for asylum, some aren't even "illegal" at all, some are even citizens. And many of those who enter illegally have no practical "lines" that they can step into - our immigration system is quite difficult for a lot of people from a lot of places to get a foot in the door on.

#2: There is no generally accessible "line" and what lines do exist aren't being cut into by any illegal immigrants. No one is saying, "Well, X people entered the country illegally last year therefore we're taking X spots away from legal immigration." in fact, do you realize that the total # of illegal immigrants in the country peaked around 2008 and has DROPPED since then, meaning that there is MORE space available for everyone else? The entire issue is manufactured by the same people who used the Southern Strategy to activate White racist votes for decades. For most of world and American history, immigration was a natural phenomenon that was controlled by supply and demand. Every time it has been regulated outside of normal considerations (keeping out criminals, terrorists, and people who are diseased or infirm), it was for quite obviously racist reasons.

#3: No one thought ICE was necessary until 2004, when it was created as a response to terrorism. Before then the only people I had ever heard talking about a Gestapo-like agency acting entirely outside of the Department of Justice that rounds up dark-looking people with an accent on suspicion of "not belonging here" were far-right wackos on KFI in SoCal. Now we got people acting like it's a necessary

Bro what you said makes no sense at all. There's a legal process of getting into the US and no citizens aren't being removed . Lol at over stayed theirs visas...thats called being illegal. The fact that you don't understand that is why it's pointless to have a discussion on this.
No other country allows you to do any of this shyt US does.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

How does college make a more educated citizenry, when we already have free school k-12 yet our academic scores continue to drop ? Progressives are idealist, there's nothing they use to back up what they say except how a utopian society should behave . Sounds buts there economics and dynamics behind everything.

Also you saying academics benign compared to military ....and how we make enemies . Tell me why did Japan attack pearl Harbor again? When we said we were neutral in the conflict? Those are the lessons that progressives refuse to understand.

This lady isn't probably qualified to be in office, hasn't had to make one decision that carries any importance in someones but was elected because she offered impoverished people free stuff. Let's be totally honest here. ..can we?

Uh if our academic scores continue to drop isn't that a case for more schooling aka free college?
I don't know what you are getting at regarding Japan attacking Pearl Harbor. It was so we don't interfere in their planned conquest of Malaysia and the East Indies but I sure that's not what you are referring to so just tell us.
Donald Trump is president the litmus tests for smarts holding public office are over. lol Yes, free stuff or do you mean stuff we pay for with our taxes? People want it, not what we are currently getting (endless war aka bombs, tanks, nuclear weapons etc., tax cuts for rich folks, bailouts for banks and quantitative easing). We are supposed to have e a representative government not one tells us what's good for us.

 

[Thanos]

How does college make a more educated citizenry, when we already have free school k-12 yet our academic scores continue to drop ? Progressives are idealist, there's nothing they use to back up what they say except how a utopian society should behave . Sounds buts there economics and dynamics behind everything.

Also you saying academics benign compared to military ....and how we make enemies . Tell me why did Japan attack pearl Harbor again? When we said we were neutral in the conflict? Those are the lessons that progressives refuse to understand.

This lady isn't probably qualified to be in office, hasn't had to make one decision that carries any importance in someones but was elected because she offered impoverished people free stuff. Let's be totally honest here. ..can we?

So you don't want folks to be educated, sure there was disparities in education but those can also be solved thru time and money.

As for the army, they need to reallocate their resources for the people who are done with their service. I got hella friends in shytty positions because the govt.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Bro what you said makes no sense at all. There's a legal process of getting into the US and no citizens aren't being removed . Lol at over stayed theirs visas...thats called being illegal. The fact that you don't understand that is why it's pointless to have a discussion on this.
No other country allows you to do any of this shyt US does.

I think a discussion is appropriate, because you seem to be unaware of a lot of the facts about what is going on.

If you are a citizen, and an ICE agent happens to arrest you because you are too Black or too Brown or have an accent or share the same last name as an illegal immigrant, do you believe you are entitled to Due Process? Do you believe you have Constitutional Rights?

Guess what - you don't. They don't have to have reasonable cause to arrest you. They don't have to follow due process to deport you. They don't have to read your Miranda Rights and they don't have to allow you representation by a lawyer. And they might drop your ass off in the middle of nowhere in some country you ain't never even been to, which certainly constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. And right now Trump is even trying to get citizenship stripped from actual citizens - two cases at least have already gone through and he has over two dozen lawyers working on more.

That's what happens when you create a Gestapo-like body like ICE that operates completely outside of the authority of the DOJ and which doesn't have to follow the rules of the other federal law enforcement bodies.

Does that sound good to you?

Receipts for ICE arresting, detaining, and even deporting American citizens:

Ice held a Black American man in custody for 1,273 days. He's not the only one who had to prove his citizenship.

Ice agents are out of control. And they are only getting worse | Trevor Timm

ICE wrongfully detained nearly 1500 Americans, sometimes for months or years

In America, Naturalized Citizens No Longer Have an Assumption of Permanence



So far as saying that people who overstay their visas are "Illegal immigrants", you said they had crossed the border illegally, and they had not. They hadn't even committed a crime - it's no crime to overstay your visa, it's a simple infraction, just like a traffic violation. I've even overstayed my visa before in another country cause I couldn't get to the capital and extend it at the right time. So I just showed up two weeks later and paid my fine and paid for an extension retroactively. It wasn't a big deal, and no one would have been dumb enough to call me an "illegal immigrant."

Your claim that no other country operates like the USA is bullshyt. Have you lived in other countries? The USA has one of the most difficult asylum processes in the world, and the current anti-immigrant regime is as strong as any Western nation.

Do you realize that up until 1917, 98% of the people who came to Ellis Island were let in? You didn't need preapproval, you didn't need a visa, you just needed to not be sick or a criminal. But some of the White people in charge didn't like that too many darker people were getting in, so they OPENLY stated that we needed to pass racist laws so only the "right" people were let in. They had already banned Chinese, in 1924 they banned the rest of the Asians and Arabs and severely limited the Southern and Eastern Europeans (back then those weren't "White" enough for them either). And ever since then, they've just found sneakier ways to enforce what is obviously an openly racist immigration policy.

 

[storyteller]

All challenges are to the right of Pelosi? Even the black woman that's been mentioned a few times?

That list of Speaker challengers needs to be posted now.

From what I've heard, Progressives are pushing for Barbara Lee to run but she hasn't given indications that she actually intends to. It sounds similar to the situation with Warren prior to the Primary for 2016 where progressives wanted an option and encouraged her to run but she wouldn't commit.

 

[Fctftl]

Some of the people sayin AOC unqualified the same people that voted in a steak salesman for president


She’s got a few good ideas. A little unpolished but she young. Give her time n let’s see what she does

 

[Professor Emeritus]

of course this isn't true. It use to be that most dems and repubs differed on certain issues but all moved towards central. Now you have 4 or 5 parties. Moderate Dems, Progressive/Extremeist Dems, Moderate Repubc, Ultra Conservatives, and Crazy right wing nationalists.

How many national-level Republicans in the entire country are openly opposing the crazy right-wing nationalist agenda of Trump and putting their money where their mouths are? Who was the last moderate Republican or ultra-conservative to stop Trump on a vote who isn't dead right now?

And the next piece of legislation passed by progressive dems will be the first in my lifetime.

Even if you think there are 4-5 parties, the crazy right-wing nationalists (proto-fascists) and the moderate dems (neoliberals) are the ones running things for either side right now.

Of course scholarships aren't guaranteed , they are earned and there's several that actually go unused btw. If you make good grades in HS you will get a free ride somewhere.

You talk about shift in investments, making college free is only going to shift the status of a bachelor's degree and the same thing that happens in HS will happen in college. The undergrads in the free college will have a lackluster education while all the smart and we'll to do kids start shifting into private schools which will then be the pool of kids that companies hire from. We have some really low unemployment , kids are already having difficulty finding jobs with a BS...so let's give everyone one and make it harder for companies to discern credible candidates.

Again there's other dynamics at play...some kids don't need to be in college and should go other routes like technical or vocational schools or community college. Personal responsibility.

The worst-performing high school students from the upper 10% of the income bracket have a higher college graduation rate than the best-performing students from the bottom 10% of the income bracket.

If you are an A student in high school and your parents earn in the bottom 10%, you are less likely to graduate college than if you were a C- student in high school and your parents earn in the top 10%.

Earned my ass. Personal responsibility my ass.


And I'm one of those "poorer" kids (not bottom 10% but maybe 40th percentile) that worked his ass off and got straight A's in high school and got all sorts of scholarships and paid his own way through two degrees. But I could still see the system was rigged. I was working work study and summers and Christmas break while the rich kids didn't have to worry about any of that. The rich kids that were 95% of my classmates had all gone to better schools than me, had been exposed to better opportunities than me, had all sorts of better support than me. They weren't having to share books with classmates or going around trying to buy stuff secondhand to get by.

And I know even I had tons of advantages. My parents didn't have a ton of money but they both went to college and I grew up in a stable two-person household. We weren't all that poor, like I said better off than at least a 1/3 of the country. My high school wasn't shyt, only like 10% of us went to college, but that's still far better than the sort of schools most Black kids have to go to in this country. And I know I have a brain well into the top 1% - you can't expect every damn kid to have to have that shyt to succeed.

Yeah, college isn't for every kid. But right now we have a racist, classist system where the kids who don't get to go are the ones poorer and darker than everyone else. I never hear rich White parents say, "College isn't for everyone, Johnny, maybe you should just go to welding school."

that's the capitalist manifesto

"College isn't for everyone!" (only the rich whites)

"Health care isn't a right!" (unless you rich and white)

"Getting free shyt makes you spoiled and lazy!" (unless you inherit it from your rich white parents, then we better make sure you get every penny)

They on some bullshyt with all that. We can pay for military bases all over the damn world and entire new trillion-dollar fighter jets when our old ones are hardly ever used because they're ALREADY light-years better than anything anyone we have any chance of having a war with will use, but we don't have money for education and health care? Come on now.

 

[nyknick]

I just read her come up. It's also no different then mine and we're practically the same age. I've done nothing with my life

Well you have 7500 posts on the coli which you could argue is worse than nothing

 

[FAH1223]

Well you have 7500 posts on the coli which you could argue is worse than nothing

And have so much in Coli Cash

 

[Perfectson]

Uh if our academic scores continue to drop isn't that a case for more schooling aka free college?
I don't know what you are getting at regarding Japan attacking Pearl Harbor. It was so we don't interfere in their planned conquest of Malaysia and the East Indies but I sure that's not what you are referring to so just tell us.
Donald Trump is president the litmus tests for smarts holding public office are over. lol Yes, free stuff or do you mean stuff we pay for with our taxes? People want it, not what we are currently getting (endless war aka bombs, tanks, nuclear weapons etc., tax cuts for rich folks, bailouts for banks and quantitative easing). We are supposed to have e a representative government not one tells us what's good for us.

No!

Our academic scores of our middle schools and highschools or dropping (and those are free). How does that make sense to now make the next level free too? I don't see how that helps, if you haven't learned the basics in HS and middleschool, more than likely it's not going to change in college. Sure there's anamolies who were bad HS students and made it either in college or as entrepreneurs but that's not generally the case. The issue here and with most progressive, it's all about what can they get for free without any personal responsiblity. So of course they want to fukk around in HS and then get rewarded with free college, so they can sleep in their parents basement for an additional 4-6 years. I'm obviously being extreme here but the answer to me and common sense to me, is to put more money into K-12 and streghten those ecosystems first.

It's free stuff, because those people going to college aren't paying for it!

I'll gladly pay for defense. again, I mention this to someone prior. When Pearl Harbor happened, Americans thought we were neutral and then Japanese just came dropping bombs. So we need to be ahead because it's an aggressive world out there and defense spending makes sense. You can say we shouldn't be the world police and we can argue til we are blue in the face about how much we should spend on it, but to get a question on how we would pay for free colleges and the remark is "we spend on defense, so we should figure it out" is lackadaisical , naive, and unprofessional. I'm happy someone that is representative of the community got elected but she's on the big stage and needs to polish up how responses and begin to figure out how she can successful impact her state instead of being a class president who promised free snacks out the vending machine for anyone who voted for him/her.