Ahmad Shah Massoud appreciation thread - true Afghan hero

[Gallo]

This is the man Che Guevara wished he would have been. Mujadeen fighter who was integral in ousting the Russians. Leader of the resistance against the Taliban. May his dream of a unified, peaceful and democratic Afghanistan never die.

"The Taliban say: 'Come and accept the post of prime minister and be with us', and they would keep the highest office in the country, the presidentship. But for what price?! The difference between us concerns mainly our way of thinking about the very principles of the society and the state. We can not accept their conditions of compromise, or else we would have to give up the principles of modern democracy. We are fundamentally against the system called 'the Emirate of Afghanistan'."
-Ahmad Shah Massoud, 2001

"There should be an Afghanistan where every Afghan finds himself or herself happy. And I think that can only be assured by democracy based on consensus."
-Massoud

“If President Bush doesn’t help us, these terrorists(Al Qaeda) will damage the US and Europe very soon.”
-Massoud, A few months before 9/11 and his assassination

Massoud is adamant that in Afghanistan women have suffered oppression for generations. He says that 'the cultural environment of the country suffocates women. But the Taliban exacerbate this with oppression.' His most ambitious project is to shatter this cultural prejudice and so give more space, freedom and equality to women — they would have the same rights as men.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78N6Q5VD60[/ame]



RIP

 

[Type Username Here]

Great human being.

 

[Gallo]

Possibly the greatest interview I've ever read. The man in his own words...

Ahmad Shah Masood - interview

PB: You are renowned for your modernist, liberal views and special emphasis on democracy, democracy understood very much in the Western sense. Isn’t it sometimes difficult for you to compromise your progressive, reformist vision of the society and the state with more traditional, conservative values characteristic of the population in Badakshan or elsewhere in Afghanistan?

Ahmad Shah Masud: Of course it is not so easy. In the present situation, it is not possible to ignore traditional system of values completely. But we should gradually undertake actions to bring about some change and modernise the society. One of such measures is education and instilling democratic thinking among common people. You have been to Badakshan, haven’t you? You couldn’t have missed to notice that girls go to school. I think that is a positive development. They have their own school sections or separate schools, where they receive education, which helps them better understand the world around, and this has a positive impact on the whole society.

 

[zerozero]

interesting

wikipedia says the northern alliance was basically pan-ethnic and the taliban is mostly pashtun

 

[The Real]

There are very few people in modern history who deserve to be called true warriors and real revolutionaries, and this man was one of them. It's actually crazy how close to being flawless he was as a leader. Read about him a few years ago, and the more you read, the more you .

The US fukked up big time not supporting him and letting Pakistan/Bin Laden/etc. interfere. He even tried to warn the US gov. specifically about 9/11 and they didn't listen to him...

 

[Type Username Here]

Massoud was a product of an Afghanistan that hasn't exist in a long time. Dude was an engineer, well educated, and immersed in political philosophy.

With the mess the Extremists and the Americans made over there, I don't know if there is any short term hope.

 

[Techniec]

Lol calm down folks, you forget this is Afghanistan. NOTHING is black and white

 

[RadaMillz]

I am always skeptical of individuals praised by Islamaphobes, I see people that mock the word of god on daily bases crying their hearts out here like teenage girls at a one direction concert. I really do not know the life Mr. Massoud lived but it's not looking good by default.

 

[alybaba]

Relative to the Taliban, yes, he comes off as the good guy.

However, if you think that Massoud and his forces didn't slaughter civilians and commit war crimes, you're being naive.

 

[Type Username Here]

Lol calm down folks, you forget this is Afghanistan. NOTHING is black and white

Relative to the Taliban, yes, he comes off as the good guy.

However, if you think that Massoud and his forces didn't slaughter civilians and commit war crimes, you're being naive.

Who in here said anything to the contrary? I searched the thread and couldn't find it.

No one here seems under the delusion that the main was nowhere near a saint, especially considering he was an integral piece and high up the chain in two wars, and other skirmishes.

 

[Techniec]

Cmon TUH,

"May his dream of a unified, peaceful and democratic Afghanistan never die" ?

"It's actually crazy how close to being flawless he was as a leader"?

Im not knocking yall, and again, Im not saying he was 100% evil because NOTHING in Afghanistan is black and white, and I could certainly understand why an outsider to the conflict could feel appreciation for Massoud, but lets not get carried away.

Among the various scum bags who have achieved any semblance of power in that country, Massoud was easily the best of the worst. And if youre a Tajik/Farsiwan (esp a Panjsheri), I can certainly understand why Massoud is damn near a God

If youre a Hazara, you have no love for him. Read up on the Afshar massacre:

"According to a Human Rights Watch report, "credible and consistent" accounts from several officials who worked in Shura-e-Nazar (the informal politico-military organization headed by Rabbani's defense minister, Ahmad Shah Massoud) and the Rabbani interim government reveal that a military campaign against Hizb-i Wahdat was planned and approved by officials at the "highest levels" of the Rabbani government.[4]

Afshar Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The same man who stood as an anti Pakistani figure, ran to Pakistans ISI back in 1975, years before a single Soviet soldier set foot in that country and years before the Communist coup, and tried to set off an uprising against the secular President Daud Khan

The same man who stood as anti Al Qaeda figure, his organization Jamiat E Islami were the first to actually bring the Arabs to Afghanistan. OBL arrived in Afghanistan when the Jamiat ran Kabul.

Im not saying this to say he was 100% evil, cuz everything has to be contextualized.

Under his watch, women were raped

Under the Taliban, women wore burqas and stayed home

 

[Type Username Here]

Cmon TUH,

"May his dream of a unified, peaceful and democratic Afghanistan never die" ?

"It's actually crazy how close to being flawless he was as a leader"?

Im not knocking yall, and again, Im not saying he was 100% evil because NOTHING in Afghanistan is black and white, and I could certainly understand why an outsider to the conflict could feel appreciation for Massoud, but lets not get carried away.

Among the various scum bags who have achieved any semblance of power in that country, Massoud was easily the best of the worst. And if youre a Tajik/Farsiwan (esp a Panjsheri), I can certainly understand why Massoud is damn near a God

If youre a Hazara, you have no love for him. Read up on the Afshar massacre:

"According to a Human Rights Watch report, "credible and consistent" accounts from several officials who worked in Shura-e-Nazar (the informal politico-military organization headed by Rabbani's defense minister, Ahmad Shah Massoud) and the Rabbani interim government reveal that a military campaign against Hizb-i Wahdat was planned and approved by officials at the "highest levels" of the Rabbani government.[4]

Afshar Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The same man who stood as an anti Pakistani figure, ran to Pakistans ISI back in 1975, years before a single Soviet soldier set foot in that country and years before the Communist coup, and tried to set off an uprising against the secular President Daud Khan

The same man who stood as anti Al Qaeda figure, his organization Jamiat E Islami were the first to actually bring the Arabs to Afghanistan. OBL arrived in Afghanistan when the Jamiat ran Kabul.

Im not saying this to say he was 100% evil, cuz everything has to be contextualized.

Under his watch, women were raped

Under the Taliban, women wore burqas and stayed home

I still think he was a great human being, mainly because of what I have heard him say as it relates to his politically philosophical views and styles of governance, especially considering his location. He could of had his power and lived extremely well under the Taliban, you know this.

He stood by his principle, especially in terms of opposing a Theocracy. I put him in the same vein as Thomas Jefferson. A Man, who was inherently flawed, and at times contradictory (and violent).

Good people do bad things. Bad people do good thing. It's a matter of subjectivity at times in deciphering if they did more good or bad. I felt the Lion was the former.

 

[Techniec]

I still think he was a great human being, mainly because of what I have heard him say as it relates to his politically philosophical views and styles of governance, especially considering his location. He could of had his power and lived extremely well under the Taliban, you know this.

He stood by his principle, especially in terms of opposing a Theocracy. I put him in the same vein as Thomas Jefferson. A Man, who was inherently flawed, and at times contradictory (and violent).

Good people do bad things. Bad people do good thing. It's a matter of subjectivity at times in deciphering if they did more good or bad. I felt the Lion was the former.

i can dig it. my views on him have tempered from my youth, when i had a more ethnic inspired hostility towards him

his crew tho?

 

[The Real]

"If youre a Hazara, you have no love for him. Read up on the Afshar massacre:

"According to a Human Rights Watch report, "credible and consistent" accounts from several officials who worked in Shura-e-Nazar (the informal politico-military organization headed by Rabbani's defense minister, Ahmad Shah Massoud) and the Rabbani interim government reveal that a military campaign against Hizb-i Wahdat was planned and approved by officials at the "highest levels" of the Rabbani government.[4]

Afshar Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This was a supremely difficult situation and I guess your opinion on it will depend on your ethnic bias/ opinion on Mazari and Akbari's place within the Wahdat during the time. I think it's fair to point out, though, that third party groups (and I think this is partially reproduced in the wikipedia article) all seem to agree that Massoud remained a voice of moderation and conscience throughout the whole process and was indeed worried about the ethnic element and potential atrocities. He wanted to deal with it as a political conflict and not let his allies go into ethnic cleansing mode. Massoud was also the one who tried to prevent the conflict by mediating between Sayyaf and Mazari in the first place. Without him, the situation may have ended up much worse, imo.

In addition, Wahdat was clapping up civilians left and right and some of their Hazaras were even engaging in ethnic cleansing of their own, which seems to be pretty well-documented.

The same man who stood as an anti Pakistani figure, ran to Pakistans ISI back in 1975, years before a single Soviet soldier set foot in that country and years before the Communist coup, and tried to set off an uprising against the secular President Daud Khan

I don't know much about this situation, but it does seem to me like he was a very different man before the Soviet invasion.

The same man who stood as anti Al Qaeda figure, his organization Jamiat E Islami were the first to actually bring the Arabs to Afghanistan. OBL arrived in Afghanistan when the Jamiat ran Kabul.

Can't comment on this either.

Under his watch, women were raped

Under the Taliban, women wore burqas and stayed home

Yes, but you say "under his watch" like he could legitimately prevent those things from happening on the ground level. At least he wanted society to reach the place where that wouldn't happen. I also think it's unfair to assume that because women were more regulated under the Taliban, they weren't getting raped and abused. There was a thread here just a day ago about a woman getting publicly stoned to death by the Taliban for "adultery" (getting used by two men and then killed for it.)

 

[88m3]

i can dig it. my views on him have tempered from my youth, when i had a more ethnic inspired hostility towards him

his crew tho?

Come to prop up your taliban friends?