A World Without Work

[TrueEpic08]

I don't think he's promoting welfare reliance in the context of the status quo. I think he's rejecting the idea that work is essential to a functioning, productive society.

Work as defined in the capitalist sense (people will still perform activities that they appreciate doing, but that's not work), but yeah, basically.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing i've heard this year so far...


When they outlawed slavery.

The answer to your questions rest within your statement.
We work because WE MUST, or rather we work because there is work that must be done. WE USED TO be able to tell slaves to do that shyt, now we can't exploit people at that level and simply "enjoy" the fruits of their labor.

Your understanding of "work" highlights EXACTLY why people need to work.



and i'm sure the vast majority of those on welfare wake up each morning being reassured of their situation because of their "implicit understanding" of history, having a broader understanding of the postmodern affects of capitalism. Clearly they overstand the concept of "he who does not work does not eat" and have chosen to remain the few, the enlightened.

We should all be lucky to reach this level of understanding.

The last part of this post misunderstands grossly what I'm saying, so read it again. Those who refuse work (key word being refuse here) ideologically and totally understand the workings of their body more than those who try to jam desires and skills into a certain model of what a worker should be, because they're willing to live in accord with them and cultivate them freely.

As for the first part of this response, answer one question for me: What is the real difference between a slave being forced to work or else he will die (because his slave master will ultimately kill him for being a rebellious and useless slave) and a man in the current societal makeup being forced to work or die (because, in accord with the way in which political economy has organized society, he will die of exposure essentially)?

 

[Brown_Pride]

The last part of this post misunderstands grossly what I'm saying, so read it again. Those who refuse work (key word being refuse here) ideologically and totally understand the workings of their body more than those who try to jam desires and skills into a certain model of what a worker should be, because they're willing to live in accord with them and cultivate them freely.

As for the first part of this response, answer one question for me: What is the real difference between a slave being forced to work or else he will die (because his slave master will ultimately kill him for being a rebellious and useless slave) and a man in the current societal makeup being forced to work or die (because, in accord with the way in which political economy has organized society, he will die of exposure essentially)?

What's the difference between a caveman toiling away (working) at gathering food and someone using the same time to perform a service to gain money in order to pay for the same food another man gathered?

Work, like it or not, is an essential part of the human/animal/biological condition.

You don't hunt/farm, you don't eat. Hunt/Farm = Work=Survival.

Again paint me a picture where you don't work and survive?

At it's purest form we're all slaves to survival in one sense or another.

 

[TrueEpic08]

What's the difference between a caveman toiling away (working) at gathering food and someone using the same time to perform a service to gain money in order to pay for the same food another man gathered?

Work, like it or not, is an essential part of the human/animal/biological condition.

You don't hunt/farm, you don't eat. Hunt/Farm = Work=Survival.

Again paint me a picture where you don't work and survive?

At it's purest form we're all slaves to survival in one sense or another.

You're not reading what I'm writing, as I addressed this in the very post that you quoted.

As a matter of fact, you're not even talking about work in the same way that the original article talked about work (which is why I specified when replying to @The Real).

If this persists, I'll reply later, but until that impasse is rectified, we're not even talking about the same thing.

 

[Meta Reign]

What's the difference between a caveman toiling away (working) at gathering food and someone using the same time to perform a service to gain money in order to pay for the same food another man gathered?

Work, like it or not, is an essential part of the human/animal/biological condition.

You don't hunt/farm, you don't eat. Hunt/Farm = Work=Survival.

Again paint me a picture where you don't work and survive?

At it's purest form we're all slaves to survival in one sense or another.

Now, wouldn't it also be work to press the buttons on your in-home nano-printer to create a chicken dinner?

Could we ever get to a point where only a small percentage of the population "works" (meaning a scheduled 9-5), and the rest of us just stay in our off-the-grid homes, and print all our necessities?

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

You're not reading what I'm writing

lol

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

Now, wouldn't it also be work to press the buttons on your in-home nano-printer to create a chicken dinner?

Could we ever get to a point where only a small percentage of the population "works" (meaning a scheduled 9-5), and the rest of us just stay in our off-the-grid homes, and print all our necessities?

yeah but who regulates who gets to have a home if you dont work to buy your own? where will all these homes be, and who gets to be your neighbors? what or who chooses these things if its no longer the individual buyer anymore?

 

[acri1]

Now, wouldn't it also be work to press the buttons on your in-home nano-printer to create a chicken dinner?

Could we ever get to a point where only a small percentage of the population "works" (meaning a scheduled 9-5), and the rest of us just stay in our off-the-grid homes, and print all our necessities?

I can't see that happening. You still need people to farm, work at the drive-thru, plumbers, people to answer phones, etc. Some sort of monetary system.

But I could see things getting to the point where most of the population works much less than 40 hours a week. If the economy could develop enough, maybe working 15-20 hours would be considered "full time" and bring in enough money for most people to live off of.

So yeah...I can't envision people just "not working" at all, but I can see the amount of time spent working going down a lot. It's already happening to some degree.

 

[Brown_Pride]

You're not reading what I'm writing, as I addressed this in the very post that you quoted.

As a matter of fact, you're not even talking about work in the same way that the original article talked about work (which is why I specified when replying to @The Real).

If this persists, I'll reply later, but until that impasse is rectified, we're not even talking about the same thing.

We were not talkinb about the same thing....

you commented on my comment, it's you who move the goal post.

This is a ridiculous statement, and indicative of how very modern and recent sentiments about work have become the norm the current organization of global political economy.

You wrote this in response to me saying that "willing yourself to win the lotto" as NovelThug posted was formed in the mind of someone completely reliant on welfare.

See i responded to novel thug, you responded to me, i responded back, you responded that I wasn't responding back to you correctly because I wasn't talking about work like TheReal was, which i'll agree, but as my comment to NovelThug was a response to WORK(as defined by my previous post) it's you who didn't read what was being written. No harm no foul though.

Regardless when you said, "

This is a ridiculous statement, and indicative of how very modern and recent sentiments about work have become the norm the current organization of global political economy.

it was my understanding that you were speaking on work in general, particularly since you linked back your understanding of work to a pre-capitalistic era (slavery)

For the record work isn't a capitalistic notion, it's one of the primary tenants to survival, i.e. work doesn't exist because of capitalism, work was merely redefined by capitalism, on that I think we agree.

And again more out of curiosity what should work look like if not how prescribed under capitalism?

 

[Brown_Pride]

Now, wouldn't it also be work to press the buttons on your in-home nano-printer to create a chicken dinner?

Yes, that would be work, just redefined by a new system of survival.

Could we ever get to a point where only a small percentage of the population "works" (meaning a scheduled 9-5), and the rest of us just stay in our off-the-grid homes, and print all our necessities?

I suppose anything is possible, the only problem I see with this type of system is the same problem I see within all other man made systems and that problem is MAN. Greed, power, corruption. Those three things have been the destruction of every great thing ever created...in an odd twist of irony they also fueled the creation of many great things.

In order to see a system like you described human nature would have to change/evolve; which i do believe is possible...just not likely.

 

[Yuzo Lightheart]

Yes, that would be work, just redefined by a new system of survival.

lol

 

[TrueEpic08]

We were not talkinb about the same thing....

you commented on my comment, it's you who move the goal post.

You wrote this in response to me saying that "willing yourself to win the lotto" as NovelThug posted was formed in the mind of someone completely reliant on welfare.

See i responded to novel thug, you responded to me, i responded back, you responded that I wasn't responding back to you correctly because I wasn't talking about work like TheReal was, which i'll agree, but as my comment to NovelThug was a response to WORK(as defined by my previous post) it's you who didn't read what was being written. No harm no foul though.

Regardless when you said, "

it was my understanding that you were speaking on work in general, particularly since you linked back your understanding of work to a pre-capitalistic era (slavery)

For the record work isn't a capitalistic notion, it's one of the primary tenants to survival, i.e. work doesn't exist because of capitalism, work was merely redefined by capitalism, on that I think we agree.

And again more out of curiosity what should work look like if not how prescribed under capitalism?

I wasn't trying to move the goalposts, I was just talking about work in the specific sense that the article in the OP was talking about it. If you were talking in the general sense of work as all transformative labor (as in, for example, cutting timber into firewood for heat), then yeah, we were talking at cross purposes. No hate or anything, like you said, just a misunderstanding.

As for the last question, I'd have to think on it (my brainpower is scattered due to working on my master's portfolio right now). I had something, but I should probably sit on it a bit to give it more refinement.

 

[Brown_Pride]

I wasn't trying to move the goalposts, I was just talking about work in the specific sense that the article in the OP was talking about it. If you were talking in the general sense of work as all transformative labor (as in, for example, cutting timber into firewood for heat), then yeah, we were talking at cross purposes. No hate or anything, like you said, just a misunderstanding.

As for the last question, I'd have to think on it (my brainpower is scattered due to working on my master's portfolio right now). I had something, but I should probably sit on it a bit to give it more refinement.

It's all good.
but yeah when you have a second i'd like to hear your thoughts on that last part. I've been mad busy myself so no rush.