A little wrestling theory: the comeback offense is THE most important part of a babyface getting ova

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I welcome any opinions but I want to talk about something that came to mind when thinking about a few wrestlers.

The comeback is the most important aspect of a babyface getting over. Getting heat and fighting back is something that since the beginning of wrestling has gotten over. Bruno sanmartino had really good fighting spirit comeback offense. Hogan literally has the GOAT comeback by a huge margin. UNDERTAKER and HBK had great comebacks especially HBK. Rock too. Cena of course (though fans periodically tire of it). Daniel Bryan was phenomenal at it of course. I am not a sting fan, but him and Dusty had absolutely amazing comeback rallies. So did Jerry Lawler.

I would put this honestly ABOVE mic skills to get over with the crowd as a babyface. A heel can talk people into the building if they want to see a bayfsce beat them up or hulk up.

Current roster; FINN BALOR has a great comeback even if it's spamming sling blades and drop kicks. Nakamura does. AJ styles has an outstanding comeback, because he can do it with DIFFERENT moves.

I despise Reign's because it's just a bunch of no selling and spamming Superman punches. If it wasn't for this, he would probably be my favorite wrestler at the moment. I think some guys legitimately don't understand this, like Dolph.

Braun, when he turns, needs a good comeback rally to hype up his powerslam. He could be biggest wrestler alive if so.

Who do you think (worldwide) does this the best today?

 

[MightyHealthy]

I agree. A lot of it involves flow, and adjusting on the fly.

Alberto Del Rio was notoriously awful at timing his attacks in response to the audience, whereas Bryan could slow himself and his opponent down to "hit the cadence."

5 moves of doom is a cheeky term given to an important facet of being a babyface, but that gives audiences a shot at getting the timing, and therefore building a star even more.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

IMO, if you cannot sell the punishment and the peril of impending defeat to get the audience to built up the anticipation for the comeback, the offence won't matter. We know the comeback is going to happen, how we're getting there and journey to it, is far more important in the story. The comeback/finish is just the cherry on top, as by that stage we've already decided on who we want to win. Give a reason to invest in wanting to see the pay off at the end, instead of hurry up and get it over with already.

 

[OVER]

Roman does 3 closelines for a comeback in 2k18.

 

[Starboy52]

Shawn had a nice one with the Flying Forearm/Kip Up/Inverted Atomic Drop/Body Slam/Diving Elbow Drop. That sequence was like the perfect build to him either going for a pin (and getting the nearfall) or going straight into tuning up the band.

Taker's was decent. Snake Eyes/Big Boot/Leg Drop/Flying Clothesline leading right into the chokeslam.

I remember Daniel Bryan having one, but I don't remember the sequence.

 

[Cartier Murphy]

I have to preface this by saying fukk Hogan.
But Hogan’s did what I feel like not many faces after him did, and that’s feed off the audiences energy and adoration to will him to fight back against his opponent. To me that’s the most important part of rallying a comeback, you need a visual reason as to why someone would suddenly get this burst of energy so late in the match that could turn the tide, and ultimately even win the match. And to me his is the best representation of that. You’d see him shake and surge with adrenaline off the crowd’s energy before hitting the 5MOD. There’s been plenty of other guys with good set-ups but I agree that his is GOAT, and I agree that generally it’s maybe the most important tool a babyface has in their arsenal.
I think Roman’s being so repetitious is part of why it’s been hard to connect with him as a face, it’s kind’ve running parallel to the inconsistent booking he’s got. He, just like his offense, can go but it’s not put together in a way that can fully win the people over.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Bret had the classic atomic drop, backbreaker, Russian Legsweep, flying elbow, sharpshooter sequence.

And in the case of Austin it was the Thesz press, FU elbow, hella cursing and punching, stunner

 

[R=G]

Yeah I know. Thats why the Rock had the biggest reactions during matches in the Attitude Era.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

I ACTUALLY TIME MY COMEBACKS SO I CAN RECEIVE A BURST OF GAMMA RADIATION FROM MY EXPERIMENTAL EQUIPMENT IN THE HULK-CAVE AND HULK UP FOR REAL, A SHOOT, NO GIMMICKS, BROTHER!

AND YES I HAVE A GIANT PENNY, A TYRANNOSAURUS, AND ANDRE'S BOOTS IN THE HULK-CAVE, DUDE!

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Shawn had a nice one with the Flying Forearm/Kip Up/Inverted Atomic Drop/Body Slam/Diving Elbow Drop. That sequence was like the perfect build to him either going for a pin (and getting the nearfall) or going straight into tuning up the band.

Taker's was decent. Snake Eyes/Big Boot/Leg Drop/Flying Clothesline leading right into the chokeslam.

I remember Daniel Bryan having one, but I don't remember the sequence.

Dbry had the running knees, running drop picks, and kneeling chest kicks.

Hbk's was really really good after I think of it. Like one of the goat. The flying forearm was a real despiration move which allowed him to :deadwolverine: after he hit it. Really great sequence.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Alberto Del Rio was notoriously awful at timing his attacks in response to the audience, whereas Bryan could slow himself and his opponent down to "hit the cadence."

Youre right. He would try to force the crowd, which just doesnt work. Kurt angle was really good at timing his, and had the cue (taking down his shoulder straps)

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

I don't agree with this in 2017. I don't think it's the most important anymore. It may have been true in the past, but now I think mic work and charisma are most important and I think you can argue they were always more important.

It's really hard to say what is most important babyface quality now though because this is probably the weakest era in terms of having strong babyfaces in the history of the WWE/WWF.

 

[Hey_zeus]

I agree which is my Ricky Steamboat is the greatest face worker in rasslin history. He has the best timing and his offense looked the most effective. Worked expertly from the face dynamic. He may not have been a worthwhile promo but nobody can make you care about a fukking arm drag like Steamboat. Not to mention the chops. The face worker virtuoso.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I don't agree with this in 2017. I don't think it's the most important anymore. It may have been true in the past, but now I think mic work and charisma are most important and I think you can argue they were always more important.

It's really hard to say what is most important babyface quality now though because this is probably the weakest era in terms of having strong babyfaces in the history of the WWE/WWF.

I hear you; i can however list guys who are good on the mic, and charismatic, but will never really get over as a babyface.

Dean Ambrose, for example, has a ceiling. I think its part of the reason apollo crews aint shyt to the crowd. Orton is clearly going thru the motions during his.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

I hear you; i can however list guys who are good on the mic, and charismatic, but will never really get over as a babyface.

Dean Ambrose, for example, has a ceiling. I think its part of the reason apollo crews aint shyt to the crowd. Orton is clearly going thru the motions during his.

Ambrose has been mad over at certain points in his career. The crowd was ready to go on him leading up to WM32 when he got the title match against HHH. I don't think his weak comeback is any reason he hit a ceiling.

BTW I think for whatever you want to say about him. Orton has one of the strongest comebacks of any babyface in WWE right now. The clotheslines, the backbreaker, snap powerslam and the snapping the mat shyt before the RKO. That's all live.

It's ironic though that this is the era where characters seem to matter the least, and "moves" matter the most... yet it's also the era where comebacks are prob less important than ever because the same smarks that cheer for the moves don't have any real emotional attachment to the comeback.