WHO WINS?


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JBoy

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What issues do you think Americans are right wing on? Health care? Good wages so they don’t live in struggle? The environment?

I don’t think Americans exist in a right wing/left wing world as much as they view things through how questions are presented. The issue is the wealthy are the ones who present the questions and thus it’s framed in a way that’s advantageous to them.
so you agree most Americans are centrist and you should run Centrist positions to attract them :youngsabo::youngsabo: and yes besides the BoWash corridor and California's mega regions (and a few Southern and Midwest outliers) most Americans are pretty Culturally Conservative on many issues, wages to these folks? get a better job. Health care? get a better job and provider, environment, well who cares I will be dead before it kills me.
 

Outlaw

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Buzz City, NC :blessed:
Overpromising and underdelivering is far preferable to underpromising and underdelivering. With the former, you are moving the overton window and building expectations in the electorate. With the latter, you're just giving up. A large part of politics is about rallying the populace behind your program, but some people think it's all about the intra-DC congressional machinations because it makes them feel like wise insiders instead of being shamefully hopeful.
Yes let’s open her up for attack by the right and scare away the moderates by saying she’s too socialist, communist, liberal and will ramp up inflation. Yes they would say that anyway but the attacks have more power if there are policies that can be attached to her.
 

mastermind

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so you agree most Americans are centrist and you should run Centrist positions to attract them
I don’t know how you came to this conclusion. It doesn’t even make sense.


and yes besides the BoWash corridor and California's mega regions (and a few Southern and Midwest outliers) most Americans are pretty Culturally Conservative on many issues, wages to these folks? get a better job. Health care? get a better job and provider, environment, well who cares I will be dead before it kills me.
This is extremely lazy thinking with no research.
 
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Right, it's a choice to build this coalition. I agree that those voters are not right now conditioned to believe that a better world is possible, but I believe the job of political leaders is to show people the way to a better world instead of capitulating to their worst instincts.
I think it's partially a choice made from pragmatism and the reality of how the parties are currently realigning. If the Dems could rely on a mass of progressive voters focused specifically on class issues and that was a coalition that would be the most likely to win, they would probably do it!

I feel that a lot of the time, and I'm not trying to knock you personally, people ascribe too much power to the party apparatus and not enough to the actual voters who influence the party apparatus's strategies for winning elections. I wish there were a bunch of progressives ready to vote en masse for all the stuff I want like universal Medicare, fully-paid family leave, nationalization of the drug industry, nationalization of the telecoms, the breakup of Amazon, etc., but there simply are not.

I mentioned Jeremy Corbyn because his Labour party couldn't win an election despite promising an economically superior approach to revitalizing the UK than Boris Johnson did. Outside of the fact that he, like BoJo, supported Brexit, he was better in every way and by every metric regarding economic programs. Yet, he didn't beat Theresa May and then got washed by BoJo. This should be instructive as to why...

This doesn't make strategic sense. The best, most strategic time to push left and create a strong progressive agenda is when the only alternative is a highly unpalatable right-wing extremist who has alienated the center. Those voters are never going to be more comfortable with voting Dem than right now, and we're squandering that opportunity by moderating instead of pushing. "Oh, you're uncomfortable with universal healthcare? Well you don't have a choice because the alternative is a fascist who wants to end democracy." would be the argument of a party who actually wanted universal healthcare and aren't in thrall to private insurance, but...
...it actually makes perfect strategic sense to be pragmatic and to inch forward with what you offer to the coalition of voters that you are forging because it's the most likely one to win you elections so that you can actually maybe do something that is economically progressive rather than promising the most you can and doing nothing because it lost you the election.

Again, in the UK, people looked at Corbyn saying similar things: "If you are uncomfortable with free high-speed internet for everyone in the UK, you don't have a choice because the alternative is a guy like Boris Johnson who will continue to transgress our political system and dump waste into your water, etc." Did that work? No, because those voters are quick to call "high-speed internet/Medicare for everyone" and "fascist/true oligarch" as equally extreme and then vote for the conservative or not vote at all.

I feel what you're saying. In theory, it makes sense. In practice, people will sit out or just vote the party they're comfortable voting. Do I like this? No. Do I accept that it is what it is and that this sort of political acculturation is deep-seeded in a lot of these voters? I have to; that's the world I live in.

That's my perspective, but we can agree to disagree.
 

No1

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New housing builds, additional down payment assistance, child tax credit, new small business tax credit, tax hike on the top 1% are all policies that will make life materially better for the poor and middle class.

Kamala literally has to be more socialist than Bernie sanders to get any type of credit. Got damn. People like yall is why the left trash at messaging.
Bro cut out your “the left” shyt. You don’t know me or anything about me. And you certainly would never look me in my face and begin any sentence with “people like you.” Social media has turned a lot of you guys into pseudo-political analysts because you have Google at hand and a false sense of being “pragmatic.”

Maybe you should’ve asked me why instead of running with your basic ass centrist talking points about the left and hopping like a pogo stick on talking points Harris herself isn’t stressing on the campaign trail. The point is, people are tired of bullshyt and most working class people think politicians are liars and the people I talk to are smart enough to know nothing is moving with split government likely. The pitch was actually “live to fight another day in two years.” Because I talk to people who are smart enough to ask “how is Harris getting this through a republican senate?” And in me saying your life is going to be the same - I pointed out the alternative if Republican policies had been in place or Trump agency appointees.
 

wire28

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Check out this article from Detroit Free Press:

Michigan early voting: More than 250,000 voters in first weekend, Secretary of State says


A gender gap is also apparent: Turnout of women voters accounted for 55% of all the votes cast to date and men voters accounted for 44% of the votes cast so far, Benson said.

:lupe:
 

mastermind

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If the Dems could rely on a mass of progressive voters focused specifically on class issues and that was a coalition that would be the most likely to win, they would probably do it!
I’m highly skeptical of this because the leaders of the Democratic Party are upper middle class who strive to be the elite. That’s who they target for elected office and who their policies support. They could do policies that are focused on the poor but instead they ended welfare and the child tax credit, among other things. And have worked with the GOP to remove others.
 
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