Harris wouldn't pardon Trump, that is clear. If she somehow were to pardon Trump, she would lose the 2028 primary - career over.
2024 U.S. Presidential Election Thread: Donald Trump wins & will return to the White House; GOP wins U.S. Senate & U.S. House
- Thread starter FAH1223
- Start date
They have zero interest in making him a martyr and imprisoning a former president would just weaponize MAGA into something more extreme.
I would be shocked that Trump spends even a second of prison time. At best he'll live his dying days at his resort. Weak and miserable.
Tony D'Amato
It's all about the inches
VP Harris: I'm a Navy Seal With a Hit Show. My Listeners Want to Know You
As a leader and a woman dedicated to serving the remarkable people of our beautiful country, I look forward to the privilege of speaking with you.
www.newsweek.com
She should do it
AquaCityBoy
Veteran
She looks like she's trying not to vomit from his stench
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
ya'll gonna have to show concrete evidence of this. Not "gurrrll, well, I heard... " evidence, but empirical data.
Biden got how many votes in 2020 again?
The Dems move to the right because the money is on the right.
He is already a "martyr" to Trumptards.
Trump broke the law and he should face the consequences. Send his ass to prison.
trump '28 would be a huge gift to the dems, if he loses again. and imagine how weak that would look
Trust Me
Coli Prophet
Yea I agree. I was just stating that's probably what Hallie was talking about as far as pardons went. (State vs Federal crimes)
ADevilYouKhow
Rhyme Reason
They hadn'tYeah, but what you're missing here is that all of the center left in those countries have done the same thing. They capitulated on framing. And they still lost.
Plus, unlike Europeans, Americans are not prenaturally disposed to hate migrants. We are by far the most accepting country on earth of foreigners, and we assimilate better than anyone.
That is why the doomers who say we have to put migrants in the blender to win are just exposing their own existing desires. Do you have any idea how dumb the median voter is? Most Americans don't even have firm positions on anything but a few specific issues. Ask the median voter anything, in polling or in real life on immigration, and you'll hear like three contradicting opinions on the same issue.
That's why 60% of voters want mass deportation, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME 60% want mass amnesty in the same fukking poll
The point is, you have to market the morally correct position and make a stand on it. American voters are malleable on most topics. The Democrats and European parties have totally failed to do that and are suffering the consequences.
If anything, the European example is a warning sign to NOT tack to the right on immigration. You cede ground on the issue in the court of public opinion, you take the right-wing's delusional framing as a given, AND you lose, because why the fukk would a voter believe you or trust you? Why wouldn't they just vote for the rabid racist who actually means it? And they have.
That's why it's both immoral and electorally stupid to cede ground to the right wing. You must attack them at all times, vociferously, and without mercy.
- German SPD was very open to asylum seeking since the Merkel switch after the Syrian war but it's only a couple of weeks ago that Scholz started conceding on ths issue and reinstated their border controls temporarily after the state elections Ls
- French PS has always been favorable to a (albeit better ordered) immigration/asylum seeking and still is after the multiple Ls they took. LFI (the bigger leftist party) is and will always be pro-asylum seeking and are very popular but they are not winning.
- Belgian PS is similar to French PS, they are still fine with asylum seeking though they'd like it to be better structured even though they haven't won in years.
- Dutch Greens were and still are very open to asylum seeking even though they lost in 2023
- Italian PD and its leader before (Enrico Letta) were always very favorable to it but the new leadership started to change tune and be stricter after they lost to Meloni.
- Swedish SAP were always very open to it. They lost in 2022 and are now saying that they are fine with the very strict policies of the conservatives in power.
As a counter example the Norwegian, Spanish and Portuguese Left stayed true to their open policies and won their last elections.
As a counter counter example, Danish SD went full far-right on asylum seeking for their last 2
elections and won.
My point is NOT that the Left should be tougher on immigration. It's that it should swayed its message on key topics depending on its electorate in order to win elections.
In Europe, the electorate has shifted right on average on the issue of immigration/asylum and sometimes it wins to be tougher, other times it wins to stay welcoming. That's why some now change their tune because they have to be pragmatic to get back to power.
My opinion is that the left should be cynical and look to win no matter what even if sometimes it will need to make concessions on some issues temporarily (obviously).
The Overton window is moved by media and lobbyists. Politicians just surf the wave when it's there. It doesn't matter how they frame their policies if the electorate is not ready yet.
Trumpism would have never won before 2016. Trump only got to power because the xenophobic foundations of MAGA / Build the Wall were finally laid out (after years of Obama hate, Fox propaganda, conservative radio shows, Tea party and so on).
In Europe, the electorate has shifted right on average on the issue of immigration/asylum and sometimes it wins to be tougher, other times it wins to stay welcoming. That's why some now change their tune because they have to be pragmatic to get back to power.
My opinion is that the left should be cynical and look to win no matter what even if sometimes it will need to make concessions on some issues temporarily (obviously).
The Overton window is moved by media and lobbyists. Politicians just surf the wave when it's there. It doesn't matter how they frame their policies if the electorate is not ready yet.
Trumpism would have never won before 2016. Trump only got to power because the xenophobic foundations of MAGA / Build the Wall were finally laid out (after years of Obama hate, Fox propaganda, conservative radio shows, Tea party and so on).
Yeah unless they are remote working, the salaries are so different lol.
I don't know if it was in this thread but there was some union Port workers pulling 6 figures. Same job in France, they would only clear like 40K and that's a comfortable salary here.
