2024 U.S. Presidential Election Thread: Donald Trump wins & will return to the White House; GOP wins U.S. Senate & U.S. House

[the cac mamba]

Gallego is debating Dike Lindell tonight

 

[Sghost597]

We know you are slow, but try to follow me here, Why should she reward a network that lies on her 24/7 with an interview/debate and the ratings that go with it, when she has so many other options?

Especially if they put a live crowd audience full of Maga. Such a huge safety risk alone.

Like what if Fox does their "Fact Checking" on Harris and try to embarrass her.

Nope. There is no value going on a propaganda network.

 

[Reality Check]

As I said earlier:

Really smart move to go after someone who has ALL of his interviews recorded on audio and with video. Hopefully Stern has some cutting room scraps somewhere to drop.

 

[FAH1223]

What are the numbers for Michigan

 

[Hood Critic]

26 days until election, zero upside to a debate for anyone.

 

[Poetical Poltergeist]

 

[the cac mamba]

 

[the cac mamba]

does howard stern just sit back and take this? i feel like definitely not

 

[Elim Garak]

26 days until election, zero upside to a debate for anyone.

A debate would help Harris and hurt Trump imo.

 

[the cac mamba]

26 days until election, zero upside to a debate for anyone.

stop making excuses. debates are always at the end of october

kamala can rattle trump again, just like she did last time. call him a loser and failure on tv. and she can accept the debate, and watch trump bytch out. but you guys are so scared of having her gaffe it up, that you aren't even confident enough in having her do the debate. at least be honest about it

 

[King Kreole]

To judge her campaign you need to step back and appreciate that as a black woman running for President in America it is important for her to peel republican votes off Trump. That's what she is trying to do. The dikk Cheney shout out withstanding I don't think she has done anything wrong in pursuing this, she has a LOT less wriggle room than Trump and that's why she is closer to the center. She has to try to appeal to all Americans.

The perspective you're foregrounding here is that of a Harris campaign operative whose sole purpose is getting her elected, consequences be damned. It's a tone and perspective a lot of the more centrist posters in here take because they are philosophically illiterate and lack the moral or historical education needed to understand politics as anything other the horse race. If you actually read their posts, the only moral appeal they make take the form of rudimentary utilitarianism or perfunctory scolding.

I fully understand the political campaign logic behind a black woman running for President feeling like she should pivot to the right to avoid the trap of historical connotations of otherness (blackness, womanhood) being deemed radical to power within the annals of history. It's the most obvious analysis one could take to this issue. But it does not absolve her of the ramifications of her actions. She's not smol bean black auntie, she's the Vice-President running for the most powerful office in the country. The logic that it's excusable for her to do this Republican Rehabilitation tour of normalizing toxic ideology because if she doesn't she won't get to win is only convincing to people whose allegiance is to Kamala Harris' individual career aspirations over the wellbeing of the country. Hence, the parasocial spectacle of 21st century politics. I mean, surely after the Obama Administration we're not still falling for the bait-and-switch of black faces in high places neoliberalism. The most important thing isn't for Kamala Harris to be elected, it's for good things to happen. I've been willing to support Kamala because I believe those two concepts are aligned. But if they come into conflict, as they have been with increasing measure, then my allegiance is to the people not the candidate, and she should face intense scrutiny and criticism.

Your second statement is simply obtuse when you look at the alternative if Kamala doesn't win. Four more years of Trump. How does THAT IMPROVE THE LIVES OF THE POPULACE?

For all of Kamala’s faults there is nothing more cynical than pretending you are morally superior and more interested in improving people's lives, and others on here are playing games when the other option is fascism.

This would be a relevant retort if I was saying "Kamala sucks, so vote for Trump". But I am not. So it is not.

Responding to fascism by promoting fascism lite is a losing proposition. It's just easing up on the accelerator instead of slamming the brakes.

So her stance on Israel? I vehemently disagree with her.

Cool, same.

Her dikk Cheney shout out was in poor taste.

Cool, agreed.

Her saying she would have republicans in her cabinet is a nothing burger to me. You made it sound like she committed high treason.

Evidently I hate Republicanism more than you do. My entire life I have watched these fukks promote the most dangerous, harmful, antisocial policies that have immiserated hundreds of millions of people. They are irredeemable and should be eradicated from public life. But you and others are free to disagree.

This is why folks get into arguments over stuff like this and HL descends to TLR levels with the insults.

This is also a microcosm of the stuff that's wrong with politics. No one can reason or negotiate anymore , arguments are polarised and no one sees past themselves being right.

This is a misreading of both HL and politics in general.

The reason HL descends to TLR levels with the insults is because there are a contingent of posters who are unwilling or unable to engage or respond to serious debate on the issues. When they encounter a post that criticizes their position, instead of trying to counter the post with good faith, intellectual debate, they drag the discourse into the mud and get off on zero-calorie shytposting. They take their cues from the useless, superficial bickering we see on the 24/7 news networks, mirroring the state of our political discourse. They think they're auditioning to be Bakari Sellers.

The reason for political gridlock is the long-standing chickens of structural inequality coming home to roost, in addition to the collapsing of the domestic consensus of white male supremacy. It's easy to find points of agreement when both parties agree that people of color are inferior or that gays are a moral abomination or that women belong in the kitchen. It's harder to find points of agreement with someone who fundamentally believes you and your family deserve to live in poverty and indignity.

 

[Slim]

Gallego is debating Dike Lindell tonight

Walz also been out here having rallys the last couple days.

I still think Gallego and the Abortion ballot initiative will be enough to carry Kamala over the line in AZ.

 

[the cac mamba]

 

[the cac mamba]

 

[King Static X]

This is not true. A look at both Trump and Biden's administrations on working-class support tells a different story.

Trump might have talked a lot about helping the working class, especially wrt manufacturing and coal. What did he do about it? He cut taxes. That did give some middle-class people a temporary break, but the biggest benefits went to corporations, under the false belief that companies would reinvest in jobs and wages, but a lot of them just bought back their own stock instead. Let's talk about trade and Trump tariffs. Trump was "tough" on trade, especially with China, and he did renegotiate NAFTA into the USMCA, which had some positive effects, like raising standards for Mexican workers. But his tariffs? They caused more harm than good, especially in the steel and auto industries, leading to layoffs and price increases. He also set the fight against employ wage-theft back by years.

Trump was really awful when it cam to workers rights. He appointed people to the NLRB and DOL who were explicitly pro-business, and they made it harder for unions to organize, and they rolled back a lot of worker protections, like overtime rules and workplace safety standards. So, if those workers wanted to organizing or get more protections on the job, Trump ain't the one to look to. The man appointed Antonin Scalia's son as the Secretary of Labor, and he was a known opponent of labor regulations. His DOL rolled back a lot Obama-era labor regulations.

With ‘Joint Employer’ Rule, Trump NLRB Sides with Corporations Again - National Employment Law Project

When a company calls the shots at a workplace, it should be responsible to the people who work there.

www.nelp.org

Now, with Biden, it's almost the opposite. He was one of the most pro-union president we've had in decades. He was constantly talking about "building the economy from the bottom up and the middle out," and he actually made moves to back that up. His appointments to the NLRB and DOL have been very pro-labor. The NLRB under Biden has reversed a lot of Trump-era decisions that hurt unions, and Biden's Labor Secretary is a former union guy. That's a big shift in and of itself.

He's also pushed the PRO Act, a piece of legislation that would make it easier for workers to form unions and harder for employers to mess with organizing efforts. There have definitely been some set-backs, like the failure to get a $15 federal minimum wage through Congress. Although he did raise it for federal contractors, and his DOL has been working to protect more workers under overtime rules.

Biden's been way more focused on helping workers and supporting unions, compared to Trump, who was more about helping businesses and employers, under the false belief that it would trickle down to workers. Biden's administration has been more explicitly pro-labor and union-friendly through its appointments, policies, and legislative support. It is one of the few bright spots in his presidency. I am only pointing out that it is dishonest to claim that they don't care about those people, not saying that this is all that needs to be done, because it isn't. The Democrats have taken some positive steps for the working class, like improving labor rights and organizing, but it's not enough. They need to go further to ensure lasting changes.

Yep, it was already proven that the whole "economic anxiety" angle was bullsh!t.

Most Trump supporters vote for him because of racism, hatred of "others", and general ignorance/stupidity.