2024 U.S. Presidential Election Thread: Donald Trump wins & will return to the White House; GOP wins U.S. Senate & U.S. House

WHO WINS?

  • Total voters
    349
Piff Perkins

Piff Perkins

Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
51,719
Reputation
18,812
Daps
281,746
King Kreole said:
Who was Obama running against in 2012? The corporeal manifestation of corporatism who was on record criticizing Obama's protectionist tariffs as pandering to unions, quoted saying "Protectionism stifles productivity", and made his fortune by destroying those Midwestern communities. In the 2012 election Obama was the protectionist candidate and was rewarded with their votes. He didn't consistently govern as such, but he had the perfect electoral opponent to go up against in these communities. Bill Clinton (and increasingly Barack Obama) are not able to walk into those spaces unmolested now. People know the results of their tenure. You'll find both of them far more at home at Davos or a coastal city speech hosted by Wall Street or Big Tech than pounding the pavement in rural Pennsylvania or Wisconsin. They campaigned as populists but didn't govern as one, which is why the Party was decimated downballot under both of their administrations (1998 midterms notwithstanding).

Hillary definitely had a personality problem, but her ideological problem as just as big of a problem, if not greater.


I don't know how one could possibly say that tariffs have had no positive impact on the country historically when tariffs were the key component of American global economic dominance up to the pre-WW2 period when American labor and goods were competitively priced, and it was the elimination of protectionist policies under Reagan in favor of WTO-style global free trade regime that led to the massive wave of deindustrialization and attendant social discord that was produced by the disproportionate bifurcation of economic gains towards the upper class that marks our current economic era and has resulted in the elimination of the middle class. Again, historically, tariffs aren't all good or all bad, they're a tool to be used when the context and situation calls for it. The question is whether China's current aggressive economic posture towards America (IP theft, flooding domestic market with cheap labor and goods, market/currency manipulation, etc) constitutes a modern trade war and calls for protectionist policies. I don't think Biden's populist economic team was foolish for assessing it did, and keeping Trump's tariffs in place. I think it was one of the most astute things they did.


I don't think ending the Biden tariffs would single handedly ruin Kamala's presidential hopes, I just think it would be a signal to which economic ideology she's following and portend poorly for not just her electoral odds but her capacity to actually govern well, which too many people in here are disregarding. She might follow the Obama/Clinton model that prioritizes the uninhibited flight of global capital at the behest of Multinational Corporations that led to the hollowing out of the middle class and worst downballot performance from Democrats in generations, or she might continue the legacy of the Biden/Bernie/Trump (in message) economic posture that acknowledges these losses and is in favor of fighting back against them with the tools at their disposal. But again, if you think Kamala should walk into MI/WI/PA and talk about how great free trade and the economic status quo vis a vis China is, you should just say so.
Click to expand...

And yet Obama remains incredibly popular in all the states we mentioned, and is the most popular (current or former) politician in the country. Why? Surely the failure of neoliberalism should have rendered him to a W Bush type pariah status? While I agree in your assessment of Romney, and while I criticized the two tariffs Obama implemented, I wouldn't call him the "protectionist" candidate of 2012. We haven't had a candidate or president worthy of that label until Trump, and the term has been seen as negative on both ends of the political spectrum. But yes, Obama saved the auto industry at the exact time Romney was calling for it to be killed. And he won in large part because of it. And I'd argue he retains good will from that and other policies...given his popularity to this day.

What specific tariff or tariff law created the dominance you speak of, pre-WWII? Because the pre-WWII era was not some booming period of American anything, and the Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act was a disaster. I wouldn't say they outright caused the Great Depression but they contributed. FDR, who I presume you would agree was a populist, eliminated and/or re-negotiated tariffs upon entering office; he also ran on an anti-tariff platform. And by the end of WWII, the US entered what later became the WTO with even more focus on eliminating tariffs. Implemented by Truman, who I also presume you agree was a populist president.

We agree on Reagan and what happened later in his term with China. Do I agree that combating China's cheap influx of products is important? Sure. Especially given the lack of demand within China (car industry for example...the government heavily subsidizes manufactures to keep them afloat while the Chinese public doesn't buy nearly as cars as they'd need to in order to sustain the market with fed money). Long term that's not sustainable and I'm not sure why China continues to maintain the trade surplus they have. They're going to lose this game, but that's another topic entirely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

mc_brew
Kamala 2024
22 23 24
Replies
346
Views
29K
Conan
C
mc_brew
  • Poll
Kamala vs. Trump: Debate of the Year - Tue, 9/10/24 on ABC at 9PM EST (Let's Get Ready To Rumble)
42 43 44
Replies
656
Views
31K
Frump
Frump
Top