2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[storyteller]

the reason bernie gets labeled as "ideas" is the lead from that... "i don't think billionaires should exist"

good fukking luck, even if for some reason people really believe this shyt....it aint' happening. warren comes out not on some idealistic shyt like that, she just hits you with the "i'mma let yall live, you gonna get taxed, but by all means, be a billionaire"

even if on paper their plan was exactly the same, how you frame things is a key component to being a politician.




edit: i see it in later posts, like @Pressure said, don't jump the shark

Well no, he's just speaking to a different audience. "No such thing as a self-made billionaire" is a pretty common lefty concept. It might not appeal to Warren's demo's but it sure as hell appeals to the lefties that historically haven't had a reason to show up or voted third party. It's kinda like good cop, bad cop. Bernie's swinging for the fences, Warren is giving us a double, either way the country will be in much better shape for it and their combination will help introduce new ideas to a broad base of the public. Yall call it jumping the shark, I call it playing with house money. Warren's the front runner right now and supports crucial policies for a lefty voter (M4A, student debt forgiveness, bold climate action). That free's up Bernie to try and move the Overton window even further left without me being stressed about strategy since I can't imagine Biden beating Warren at this point. Meanwhile, Bernie getting more lefties involved in the process could mean more votes for Warren and a worst case scenario of them staying home. They won't vote Trump (or at least in the last election they didn't beyond statistical norms for a primary runner-up).

I also don't think journalists, of all people, should claim Bernie is all ideas unless they actually take the time to read his plans. Not realizing he's been on the wealth tax tip for years isn't a bad thing for some posters on a forum that come from a broad range of political ideologies. Being a journalist that is supposed to inform the public and not knowing what Bernie has proposed in the past is a lot less forgivable to me. They should be doing their homework. I've said it once and I'll say it again but Bernie's criminal justice plans are really great and also go into some depth but got very light coverage; ditto for his housing plans.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

He's championed benign capitalism in his own case. Randomly drawing the line at merely being more successful is dishonest. Especially from someone who owns 3 homes.

Idk about dishonest but i do think hes going too far by saying that. Propose whatever tax you want, sure. But flat out saying there shouldnt be any is a bit outlandish

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

Bernie at third place in NH and third in iowa lmao and harris and booker need to get out the paint should be biden v warren

Don't talk about New Hampshire when we know you live in Old Hampshire, you poofter.

 

[Pressure]

Yang riding the wave. Another solution that doesn't involve UBI

 

[No1]

the reason bernie gets labeled as "ideas" is the lead from that... "i don't think billionaires should exist"

good fukking luck, even if for some reason people really believe this shyt....it aint' happening. warren comes out not on some idealistic shyt like that, she just hits you with the "i'mma let yall live, you gonna get taxed, but by all means, be a billionaire"

even if on paper their plan was exactly the same, how you frame things is a key component to being a politician.




edit: i see it in later posts, like @Pressure said, don't jump the shark

The problem is that Warren is able to operate in this framework because Sanders created it. At their core, the grievance of Sanders supporters is basically not giving Sanders his just due and badmouthing him and tossing him to the side. It’s all about hurt feelings. I might be the first Warren supporter on here but even I am taken aback by it. Sanders is one the most moral and important senators of the past decade and his 2016 campaign should be recognized as a watershed moment. The person who goes first rarely wins but they show that there is a way. Warren 2020 does not exist without Sanders 2016. And quietly, a lot of people are admitting that they never actually read anything Sanders said or drafted in the lead up to, and during 2016 or since then. Many are admitting that you need it in a big shiny familiar package or that you just never liked him as a personality so you never gave him the chance or maybe you didn’t see a leftward path so you closed your ears. The revisionist history of Bernie winning if he just used different words is laughable. People were questioning the very blackness and intelligence of a Bernie supporters in
2016 even if our support was policy-based. I can pull up all the receipts from then and a lot of you are being disingenuous and that is annoying the shyt out of Sanders supporters. The argument is basically that if Bernie had only talked to me nicer I would’ve voted for him but he didn’t so I voted for the diametrically opposed candidate. Stop insulting their intelligence and maybe this coalition will get together. They want you to admit that maybe you got it wrong or didn’t think it was feasible and you guys want to be infallible. This is all those 2016 debates come down to. I thought we were over it but it’s the same thing under a different veneer. nothing but ego.

Sanders never got to the details in speeches because he was arguing that it was a good idea to do all of these things in the first place. He was laying the groundwork for it to be even a legitimate thought for college to be tuition free or Medicare for all or for drastically taxing Wall Street. He was arguing why it should be done. He never even got to the point where it was how. By 2018 we had decided that it should be done and now this campaign is based on how to do it. He shifted the Overton window and using the current window to judge Sanders in 2016 is ridiculous. Every single Warren policy was laughed at as insane in 2016 when it was a Bernie policy. Many are pretending that they would’ve rolled with Bernie 2016 if he just said it like Warren but that just wasn’t the case.

Yang and others admit that Bernie made it all possible and you’re acting like the man who popularized these ideas and reinvigorated the American left to levels not seen since the early 80s does not have the reputation as being one of the most annoyingly well read people in Congress. It’s basically “thanks for doing all the hard work now fukk out of here, Warren 2020.” Warren is doing well because many on the left want to finally get their white woman president and they feel like Bernie’s politics are needed to motivate the youth and activists. If you took away Bernie 2016, they would have rallied around Kloubuchar, Harris and Gillibrand.

Bernie proposed a wealth tax in 2017 and Warren didn’t cosponsor it. The idea that she is moving him left is laughable. Bernie had to run away from the wealth tax when running for US Senate because his opponent brought up his support for it in his writings in the 90s. Dems were like, what my nikka? It’s the same reason he didn’t bring it up in 2016 when his camp debated it. The fact that he is comfortable doing it now and that Liz is, speaksto how much the landscape has changed and I am genuinely happy about it.

The only way that Warren is changing him is in regards to roll out but his are met with scrutiny whereas everything she says is taken at face value as well thought out and shrewd. This isn’t “messaging” it is personality based. And ultimately, this was my exact reason for saying Warren 2020 as the intermediary because I knew this would happen. Liz might win this thing, but if you’re Liz 2020 and weren’t Bernie 2016, you don’t really get to try to rewrite history here and make it a hard pill for Sanders supporters to swallow. Everyone needs to relax.

 

[No1]

Idk about dishonest but i do think hes going too far by saying that. Propose whatever tax you want, sure. But flat out saying there shouldnt be any is a bit outlandish

This is standard leftist language. Bernie runs away from it from time to time to win over national audiences but it’s the same thing AOC says who comes from his camp. It doesn’t scare me because I’ve heard it all the time. It’s standard leftist language to say “every billionaire is a policy failure.” What’s interesting is that people agreed and rode that wave when Hov worked with the NFL last month and are now like...omg he said that. Sanders is really introducing you guys to leftist American history in real time. This is common at your local DSA meeting.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

supporters

hate to be that person in HL...but nikka, aint nobody reading all that :guccie:

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

This is standard leftist language. Bernie runs away from it from time to time to win over national audiences but it’s the same thing AOC says who comes from his camp. It doesn’t scare me because I’ve heard it all the time. It’s standard leftist language to say “every billionaire is a policy failure.” What’s interesting is that people agreed and rode that wave when Hov worked with the NFL last month and are now like...omg he said that. Sanders is really introducing you guys to leftist American history in real time. This is common at your local DSA meeting.

I understand but it may be pushing the envelope a little too much to win the election

I guess we'll see how open people truly are to it

 

[CBSkyline]

Bernie is doing in this election what he wanted to do in 2016, and that is shift Democratic policy to the left. For that reason alone he will stay in the race, and continue to make Warren look like a "moderate" in comparison. If he wasn't running, Warren would be taking on all incoming fire, and Biden would probably cruise to the nomination.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[No1]

hate to be that person in HL...but nikka, aint nobody reading all that :guccie:

Short version: Sanders supporters are not liking the revisionist history that if he just spoke differently then 2016 would be different. He had to walk so Liz could run and we should stop making that a hard pill for his most fervent supporters to swallow.

 

[Pressure]

Short version: Sanders supporters are not liking the revisionist history that if he just spoke differently then 2016 would be different. He had to walk so Liz could run and we should stop making that a hard pill for his most fervent supporters to swallow.

Bernie didn't make Liz. There were calls for her to run in 2016 as a progressive voice.

 

[King Kreole]

Bernie didn't make Liz. There were calls for her to run in 2016 as a progressive voice.

I think he's saying that Bernie 2016 broke in the progressive space that Liz is now thriving in. I think that take is more right than wrong, although I think the aftermath of Trump's victory and the chaos of his Presidency has done a lot of work in that direction as well.

I do disagree with his argument that Bernie 2020 supporters are primarily upset because Bernie isn't being given the credit for the work he did to get us to this point. They're upset because they want Bernie to win and Liz's success is making that a difficult proposition, so they're striking back against Liz. Again, the rancor isn't coming out of Bernie stans bigging up his housing plan or criminal justice plan, it comes from when they feel the need to shyt on Liz to do so and make ridiculous smears.

The way I see it, Liz is honey and Bernie is vinegar. Both are preferable to the bleach that is the rest of these candidates, but if it comes down to Liz vs Bernie, it's pretty clear which one will attract the necessary votes to win the Democratic nomination. Which is why I question the motivations of the anti-Liz Bernie stans. What's more important, winning the Democratic nomination so you can eventually win the Presidency and create change, or shytting on centrist Dems on twitter? A lot of them seem to believe its the latter. It's a juvenile understanding of politics.