No1

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Exactly. Bernie's willing to spend trillions to combat climate change. Here's Biden's plan:



:huhldup:

I was already clear that I’m not voting for Biden under any circumstances because I live in New York. If Warren or Sanders isn’t the candidate I’m going to seriously pause. I have met Booker and like the dude on a personal level though.
 

Berniewood Hogan

IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
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I was already clear that I’m not voting for Biden under any circumstances because I live in New York.
Okay. Let's discuss climate change policies, like you said. The frontrunner's plan is.... to... mitigate across the board so education can have a direction for opportunities... um....
 

the next guy

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Bruh are you mad at what she wanted or how things turned out?

The real world is messy

Yall are just as idealistic and aren't prepared to make difficult decisions...and don't bring up that goddamn crime bill...cause your boy was right in line to cast his vote.

This dude said she supports the drug war today :dead:

Clueless b*stard... you might need to go back because you CLEARLY haven't been keeping up.

So what are you telling me? Bernie is going to never use the military? What are we saying right now?
This is complete nonsense. Grow up and have some principles for once. Stop supporting white supremacy when you feel like it.
 

storyteller

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I don’t think Warren supporters are doing a better job at bringing people over to their side at all. She isn’t currently trying to get Bernie’s base so there is no evidence of that. Warren took over the woman vote but her coalition isn’t diverse at all. You guys are writing your own narratives. Most pro-Warren people in the media snipe at Sanders and it makes me wince because I know how easily 2016 can be resurrected.

I think the "I have a plan for that" motto and the way she started with big ideas and white papers was really brilliant in giving herself and her supporters a great concept to build on when they sell her. Instead of fighting about BS like Bernie Bro's or in her case the DNA test, her supporters are primed to go right back to the sweet spot which is policy. I love that as a general direction to move voter sentiment in general and I think it's helped her supporters into more substantial conversations than what I generally have with Bernie...explaining how his supporters are all frat boys and that Socialism in his context isn't crazy. Hell...Bernie dropped three great policy concepts with tens of thousands of words explaining the concepts behind them and I think his criminal justice platform especially was really exciting but most people aren't talking about those. If it weren't for the climate forum and Jay Inslee, I doubt his Green New Deal would even get the light it has. And that is attacked with the same "how will you pay for it" meme first and foremost. Warren bodied "how will you pay for it" with a Wealth Tax that you could find in Bernie's 2016 white papers. That's not me detracting from Warren, I'm saying she's done a better job highlighting that sort of idea than what Bernie has managed. Or in other words...they both have strengths and weaknesses; they kinda compliment each other; and a ticket with those two would be amazing (I also don't think it ever happens with those two on the same ticket but I'd love it to happen).
 

No1

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I think the "I have a plan for that" motto and the way she started with big ideas and white papers was really brilliant in giving herself and her supporters a great concept to build on when they sell her. Instead of fighting about BS like Bernie Bro's or in her case the DNA test, her supporters are primed to go right back to the sweet spot which is policy. I love that as a general direction to move voter sentiment in general and I think it's helped her supporters into more substantial conversations than what I generally have with Bernie...explaining how his supporters are all frat boys and that Socialism in his context isn't crazy. Hell...Bernie dropped three great policy concepts with tens of thousands of words explaining the concepts behind them and I think his criminal justice platform especially was really exciting but most people aren't talking about those. If it weren't for the climate forum and Jay Inslee, I doubt his Green New Deal would even get the light it has. And that is attacked with the same "how will you pay for it" meme first and foremost. Warren bodied "how will you pay for it" with a Wealth Tax that you could find in Bernie's 2016 white papers. That's not me detracting from Warren, I'm saying she's done a better job highlighting that sort of idea than what Bernie has managed. Or in other words...they both have strengths and weaknesses; they kinda compliment each other; and a ticket with those two would be amazing (I also don't think it ever happens with those two on the same ticket but I'd love it to happen).
Well I’ve said from day 1 my Warren support is premised on her being better at explaining things than Bernie because she is a teacher and because she lacks the baggage. This isn’t anything new to me. I saw that coming. I just want her to forgive all student loan debt and I’m fully on board.
 

Cole Cash

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Can't speak for Kyle but Michael is a real Democratic Socialist and his critiques tend to be about Warren's focus on capitalist style solutions when he thinks the best solutions lean further left. A lot of times that can come off as "this is why Bernie's a better candidate" but most times I think there's an assumption that his followers understand the underlying beliefs about the strategies. Twitter with its limitations makes it way too easy to infer the worst. For example, Nap getting his panties in a bunch because a lot of lefties believe that public ownership of utilities is a real solution that can help people...It's not like these positions haven't been discussed and thought about. These dudes just aren't going into deep strategic breakdowns on a website that allows 228 characters only per post.

Im gonna send this reply to michael, this was great.

*Edit

He loved the reply homie .
 
Last edited:

acri1

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I was already clear that I’m not voting for Biden under any circumstances because I live in New York. If Warren or Sanders isn’t the candidate I’m going to seriously pause. I have met Booker and like the dude on a personal level though.

Just this once can't we just vote Trump out regardless? I know you live in NY but still. :beli:

It's like people are determined to have another 2016.
 

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I think the "I have a plan for that" motto and the way she started with big ideas and white papers was really brilliant in giving herself and her supporters a great concept to build on when they sell her. Instead of fighting about BS like Bernie Bro's or in her case the DNA test, her supporters are primed to go right back to the sweet spot which is policy. I love that as a general direction to move voter sentiment in general and I think it's helped her supporters into more substantial conversations than what I generally have with Bernie...explaining how his supporters are all frat boys and that Socialism in his context isn't crazy. Hell...Bernie dropped three great policy concepts with tens of thousands of words explaining the concepts behind them and I think his criminal justice platform especially was really exciting but most people aren't talking about those. If it weren't for the climate forum and Jay Inslee, I doubt his Green New Deal would even get the light it has. And that is attacked with the same "how will you pay for it" meme first and foremost. Warren bodied "how will you pay for it" with a Wealth Tax that you could find in Bernie's 2016 white papers. That's not me detracting from Warren, I'm saying she's done a better job highlighting that sort of idea than what Bernie has managed. Or in other words...they both have strengths and weaknesses; they kinda compliment each other; and a ticket with those two would be amazing (I also don't think it ever happens with those two on the same ticket but I'd love it to happen).
Nationalizing all utilities is an emotional response to what should be a unique solution to our problems.

maybe a national competitor in some areas, yes.


ALL of it?

what???

I can’t respect anyone who speaks in extremes.
 

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Time for some tough talk.


Bernie, maybe...YOURE the problem... :francis:









Why Bernie is stalled

Why Bernie is stalled
David Faris



This week, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) passed Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) for second place in the Real Clear Politics polling average of the Democratic primary. She has also taken over second place in Iowa and Nevada and become the betting market favorite. While this isn't the first time that Warren has inched ahead of Sanders, he and his supporters have to be wondering what happened — and if they can fix it.

There's definitely still plenty of time for a Sanders comeback — we're still five months from Iowa — but he would do well to position himself more clearly inside the fold of the Democratic Party, let go of some of his resentments, and instruct his surrogates to strike a different tone.

What happened? Heading into the beginning of America's interminable presidential primaries, Sanders could point to a number of clear strengths. Like Hillary Clinton in 2016, Sanders was the runner-up in the party's most recent contested primary, having captured about 43 percent of the overall vote as well as 23 primaries and caucuses. Because he stayed in the race until the contentious end, Sanders rolled into this cycle with a pre-existing network of volunteers and supporters in almost all 50 states. He had also helped mollify many Clinton supporters by hitting the trail for her in the fall of 2016 and did his earnest best to convince Bernie-or-Busters to show up. And because Clinton went on to lose the election, and because opinion polling had always shown him performing better against Donald Trump, Sanders even sported a pretty credible electability argument. After his announcement, he surged to within striking distance of frontrunner Joe Biden.

All of those strengths were on clear display in an April town hall he did, controversially, for Fox News, when he took his message directly to the network's audience, tussled memorably with the hapless hosts, and refused to take the bait on attacking fellow Democrats. That event showed a candidate at the top of his game, someone who wouldn't just appeal to the party's progressive base but who could persuade enough people on the other side to usher in the kind of majority any Democrat will need to make meaningful change beginning in 2021.

But little has gone right for him since then. While he was averaging around 24 percent at the time, Sanders has dropped to just over 16. He did fine in the first two debates, but didn't get a bounce of out them. And it's getting increasingly tough to dispute that he's at least been caught, if not passed, by Warren.

It's impossible to pinpoint the origin of these troubles, but some of his personnel decisions might help explain them. In March, his campaign announced that it had hired as his speechwriter the firebrand progressive journalist David Sirota, who days before the 2012 election wrote that it didn't matter whether Mitt Romney or Barack Obama appointed the next Supreme Court justice. Sirota's public record of Obama-hating actually stretches back more than a decade and bringing him on board indicated that Sanders privately shares his distaste for the former president, who remains wildly popular with Democratic voters.

While most people are blissfully unaware of these kinds of campaign machinations and couldn't care less who writes anyone's oratories, Sanders was still placing one of the most important posts of campaign into the hands of someone who loathes the Democratic Party. And whatever you may or may not think of Sirota, this was an enormous strategic misstep. Whereas Warren has run an above-the-fray campaign in which she rarely criticizes the other candidates directly and doesn't waste time warring with the press or feuding with the Center For American Progress, Sirota has repeatedly plunged his candidate into internecine battles with other camps and continued Sanders' self-destructive fixation on media unfairness.

A case in point was the late August kerfuffle over a Washington Post fact-checking story that deemed (wrongly) a Sanders claim about medical bankruptcies to not be entirely accurate. Should Sanders have pushed back on it? Sure. It was a nonsense article. But what I'm talking about here is a certain style, and that style is "constantly aggrieved" — at other Democrats, at the same national media organizations that President Trump calls "the enemy of the people," at polling that Sirota doesn't like, and on and on and on.

I'm not anyone's six-figure campaign hand, and unlike Sirota I'm not working for any of the candidates, but it seems to me like maybe spending your time attacking the integrity of The Washington Post and MSNBC journalists is maybe not where Democratic candidates should be right now. It's not the genre of anger that primary voters are looking for. In 2016, you could make a plausible case that criticizing President Obama and his heir apparent tapped into a tangible sense of frustration with the party. But in 2020, popular rage is directed almost exclusively at President Trump, and the kinds of people who show up for Democratic primaries mostly don't want to see the Sanders camp lighting into the other candidates, let alone America's besieged journalists, day after day after day. Frustration with elected Democrats, inasmuch as it exists, is mostly of the fight-harder, impeach-faster variety.

Look, Sirota is just one guy. Sanders isn't out there every day railing against the DNC and The New York Times and his own Twitter account has mostly been above the fray. But putting Sirota's words and more importantly his attitude in Bernie's mouth has allowed Warren to position herself as the happy progressive warrior in the race despite negligible policy differences and an equally radical agenda, and has helped isolate Sanders as the only top-tier candidate with a sullen attitude about the party itself. It has contributed to the consolidation of Warren's support from Clinton's 2016 primary base. It has driven the Sanders campaign to feud with 4th-place Kamala Harris rather than with Biden.

The trouble with a plan to run against the Democratic Party is that there aren't that many people who vote in the primaries who nevertheless despise the party as an institution
. Even in many states where Sanders beat Clinton in 2016, like Indiana, he lost self-identified Democrats, according to exit polls. His performance, there and elsewhere, was driven by success with independents, and it's no coincidence that in states where only registered Democrats were allowed to vote, he did poorly. The critical "Acela Corridor" states — New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New York, and Maryland — still hold these "closed" primaries. There are more Democrats than independents in the primaries. It would then stand to reason that someone who wants to win the nomination shouldn't engage in behavior and rhetoric that alienates those voters. If anything, he should be bending over backwards to appeal to them. And he can do that! Did you see him looking like Mike Trout on the softball field?

That's why hiring journalist and former contributor to this site Briahna Joy Gray, who publicly announced on Twitter that she voted third-party in 2016, was another curious choice. It is why the decision to allow actress and Ralph Nader/Jill Stein enthusiast Susan Sarandon to introduce him at campaign events in Iowa is so mind-boggling. Sarandon is near the top of a short list of people who cause the heads of Clinton diehards to explode. And hey, maybe you hate Clinton and Clintonism and Clinton voters, but this remains a not-winning strategy in a Democratic primary in which you need to persuade a certain number of them to join your team.


Maybe all of this is just inside baseball, the kind of extremely online, Beltway-based stories and rifts that most ordinary people don't care about. But the people who pay the most attention to these things are the very elite media figures who drive the narrative. If you don't like your coverage and your WaPo fact-checks, maybe stop calling it "the corporate media." If you want to flip enough Clinton voters to win, quit kvetching about the "establishment" and the "corporate wing" of the party. They know who and what you mean. If you don't want national reporters turning your speechwriter into the story, maybe ask him to tone it down on Twitter.

The whole siege mentality vis-à-vis the media helps entrench the very dynamic it is meant to fight against, and it has transformed Sanders from arguably the favorite to someone who is going to need a lot of breaks, and a new attitude, to win.














@GzUp @wire28 @Atlrocafella @ezrathegreat @Jello Biafra @humble forever @Darth Nubian @Dameon Farrow @General Bravo III @BigMoneyGrip @hashmander @Call Me James @dongameister @Soymuscle Mike @BaileyPark31 @Lucky_Lefty @johnedwarduado
 

Bobhoward

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I posted a few months ago about him switching out Pence for Nikki Haley. I don't think it will be her anymore but it wouldn't be surprised if he found a woman b/c Trump already has Pence's people locked up.

Point is, he's not going to go down in the fetal position. Trump has a few tricks up his sleeve. A new VP? A compromise on guns? Maybe a deal with China? Next year should be interesting...



Think this would clearly be the smart move especially if he can get a woman, and one that the media respects and will paint as someone rational who will rein in the crazy. The "moderates" who like the policies but not the rhetoric will completely fall for it
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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Think this would clearly be the smart move especially if he can get a woman, and one that the media respects and will paint as someone rational who will rein in the crazy. The "moderates" who like the policies but not the rhetoric will completely fall for it
Worked for McCain :troll:
 
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