Warren Moon

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OK so just for the record, nothing you have provided here is evidence supporting your allegations of deeply racist, sexist articles and statements hiding in her closet, decades of hardcore conservative writings and legal opinions, or wild shyt she was saying about women and the family structures in 1981. What you have provided is a very old and addressed Republican-originated smear that banks on people's legal illiteracy to ridiculously paint Elizabeth freaking Warren as some kind of crypto-corporatist.

In the LTV Steel case, the very article you cite says:



So the idea that she was advancing some nefarious corporate agenda instead of having a legitimate difference of legal opinion from the activists is spurious at best.

With regards to the Slate article, which is old news that everybody has already read by now, you call Warren a "firm supporter of...Reagan" yet the article states she never voted for the man and "It’s simply also true that she was never active in Republican electoral politics." The truth is more that growing up in Oklahoma, she was atmospherically conservative, and once she started to actively interrogate political thought, she became a Democrat. That's actually a good thing because it shows she has dynamic thinking and is open to ingesting new information to find the best, true option. That's a very critical skillset for a President, and gives her very strong credibility when it comes to bringing non-Democrats onto her side.

Again, these recycled, rehashed anti-Warren Republican attacks are preying on people who are low-info, so I hope this conversation has gone some way to dispelling your erroneous beliefs.
OK so just for the record, nothing you have provided here is evidence supporting your allegations of deeply racist, sexist articles and statements hiding in her closet, decades of hardcore conservative writings and legal opinions, or wild shyt she was saying about women and the family structures in 1981. What you have provided is a very old and addressed Republican-originated smear that banks on people's legal illiteracy to ridiculously paint Elizabeth freaking Warren as some kind of crypto-corporatist.

In the LTV Steel case, the very article you cite says:



So the idea that she was advancing some nefarious corporate agenda instead of having a legitimate difference of legal opinion from the activists is spurious at best.

With regards to the Slate article, which is old news that everybody has already read by now, you call Warren a "firm supporter of...Reagan" yet the article states she never voted for the man and "It’s simply also true that she was never active in Republican electoral politics." The truth is more that growing up in Oklahoma, she was atmospherically conservative, and once she started to actively interrogate political thought, she became a Democrat. That's actually a good thing because it shows she has dynamic thinking and is open to ingesting new information to find the best, true option. That's a very critical skillset for a President, and gives her very strong credibility when it comes to bringing non-Democrats onto her side.

Again, these recycled, rehashed anti-Warren Republican attacks are preying on people who are low-info, so I hope this conversation has gone some way to dispelling your erroneous beliefs.

No the article states the last republican she voted for was ford. She refuses to say if she voted for Reagan. If she didn’t vote for him she would say it :mjlol:


Her economic writings were in lockstep with his policies.

You chose to gloss over all of her representation of major corporations against consumers. She was Legal Representation of Major Corporations - Elizabeth Warren Wiki

Any comment on that? How is that not pushing through corporate agendas for two decades?


Wtf are you talking about with Oklahoma?!?

She moved to New Jersey one of the most liberal places in America in 1970.:dwillhuh:

Oklahoma has such an impact on her that it’s took her 27 years to change parties. :gucci:


She’s been a republican longer than she’s been a democrat.


Now u caping for ex republicans saying they can bridge the divide. :hhh: When every post before that you wanted a revolution, progressive policies or nothing and moderates who could bridge the divide we’re not good enough:mjlit:


:russ: :russ: Breh wtf are you talking about :camby:
 

88m3

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@the next guy my nikka dont even reply to me cause you about to make me start derailing this thread cause of your stupidity

You about to piss me ALL the way off with your bullshyt

Cut it out.

Respect black voters and black labor issues. Period. fukking moron.

You and @the next guy are cool but you have to practice what you preach.

You need to respect black voters and black labor issues and you are not doing that.

You are trying to shoehorn all black voters into your ideology and that is wrong.

Furthermore you are not black per #ados so your voice in this conversation is gravely misplaced.

It's time you pack your bags and are neuroscientist where your people were from. Stop contributing to brain drain in your community.
 
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Furthermore you are not black per #ados so your voice in this conversation is gravely misplaced.
lol. Atleast you're misleading to benefit other interest too outside of Israel and Dems
Funny to see your fellow ANTIFA-light allies on here that happen to rep #ADOS supporting you not knowing you don't respect or care to support their lineage:mjlol:
 

King Kreole

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They're all politicians attempting to enact their views of government by taking part in government.

He's merely lobbying ideas. It's ironic to say the least. :ehh:
Stoller used to be a Congressional staffer, so he has taken part in government. He's currently an academic/writer, so lobbying ideas is how someone in his current capacity would attempt to enact their views of government.

Trump campaigned on racism and nativism. He's ran on that while allowing the Republican establishment to continue to funnel more of the pie to the wealthy. Says only he can run the country because he has the best brain and went to the best schools.

He then went on to be elected by the same types of people suggest hold contempt for elites.

Again the irony. :wow:

I think simply saying that Trump campaigned on racism and nativism, without speaking to the material conditions that allowed a campaign like his to become viable, is shortsighted and reductive. Trump also spoke to the rot and inequality caused by the globalized economic regime. He spoke about the governmental corruption that caused Washington elites, of which the Clintons are surely a member of, to be unaccountable to the disaffected masses. 13% of Trump voters voted for Obama, so there was obviously some meaningfully sizeable audience for that message as opposed to the starkly racist/nativist stuff. If you fail to recognize this and just reject this analysis out of hand because Trump got to it before the Democrats, then you're setting yourself up for failure. Thankfully, Liz and Bernie understand this dynamic.

Here you go misusing the term neoliberal again. :gucci:
How do you define neoliberalism, and how do you find it different from progressivism (if you do)?
Chait makes a fatal mistake here in confusing the voting Democratic population for the population at large. It's actually one of the most telling differentiating fault lines between establishment "neoliberal" Democrats and progressives. The former is only concerned with people in the tight box of consistently Democratic voters while the latter is concerned with expanding the circle of relevant people and voices to include non-Democrats. So whereas Obama having incredibly high popularity rates amongst Democrats signals to establishment politicians that M4A should not be pursued and everything must be framed as an extension of Obama, progressives aren't shackled to the Obama legacy and have the freedom to think outside the establishment box. His relative popularity within the Democratic Party doesn't mean shyt when it comes to accurately assessing the material results of his actions and inactions.

In terms of the actual meat of this article, I don't see Stoller or any other progressive claiming that Obama only did bad things. But taken as a whole, his record on corporatism, environmentalism, taxation and yes, healthcare, were woefully inadequate to handle the critical issues of this era. I call his Presidency a failure because given a historic mandate for change, time and time again he pursued a foolish vision of bipartisanship and moderation that ended up neutering the capacity to actually bring about change. This isn't hypothetical, our current political environment is his aftermath. 1000 lost Democratic seats and President Trump is his political legacy. That Hillary Clinton was his natural Democratic successor and not Bernie Sanders or another progressive is proof positive of this point. Obama-ism didn't groom progressivism, it stifled it.
 

88m3

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lol. Atleast you're misleading to benefit other interest too outside of Israel and Dems
Funny to see your fellow ANTIFA-light allies on here that happen to rep #ADOS supporting you not knowing you don't respect or care to support their lineage:mjlol:

I'm not down with the genocide of Jews besides that the issue is meh but you're too ignorant to understand that.

I support the politics of people not trying to oppress me that shouldn't be difficult to understand.

the spoiler you're going to need run through a translator again because I can't understand what you wrote
 

King Kreole

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No the article states the last republican she voted for was ford. She refuses to say if she voted for Reagan. If she didn’t vote for him she would say it :mjlol:
If Gerald Ford ran for President before Ronald Reagan did, and the last time you voted for a Republican in Ford's election, then that means you didn't vote for Reagan...

Look man, I'm open to having a discussion, and I gave you the benefit of the doubt after your debate night gaffe, but I'm sorry I cannot take you seriously if this is the caliber of thinking you're going to be displaying. You're in here peddling stale Republican crap. I wish you well.
 

Pressure

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I think simply saying that Trump campaigned on racism and nativism, without speaking to the material conditions that allowed a campaign like his to become viable, is shortsighted and reductive. Trump also spoke to the rot and inequality caused by the globalized economic regime. He spoke about the governmental corruption that caused Washington elites, of which the Clintons are surely a member of, to be unaccountable to the disaffected masses. 13% of Trump voters voted for Obama, so there was obviously some meaningfully sizeable audience for that message as opposed to the starkly racist/nativist stuff. If you fail to recognize this and just reject this analysis out of hand because Trump got to it before the Democrats, then you're setting yourself up for failure. Thankfully, Liz and Bernie understand this dynamic.
You're not living in reality. But I think this is more you as a Trump voter failing to accept you were conned in plain sight.

How do you define neoliberalism, and how do you find it different from progressivism (if you do)?
Neoliberalism is an economic theory that has been long defined.

Free market capitalism - - deregulation, privatization of public resources, the dissolution of the welfare state.

That fact that you want to juxtapose it with political progressivism is why you keep having these positions that don't always make sense when trying to label anyone who isn't a progressive as a neoliberal.

Donald Trump is more of a neoliberal than anything Obama pushed.

Ergo, 2016 was not a rejection of neoliberalism
:yeshrug:


Chait makes a fatal mistake here in confusing the voting Democratic population for the population at large. It's actually one of the most telling differentiating fault lines between establishment "neoliberal" Democrats and progressives. The former is only concerned with people in the tight box of consistently Democratic voters while the latter is concerned with expanding the circle of relevant people and voices to include non-Democrats. So whereas Obama having incredibly high popularity rates amongst Democrats signals to establishment politicians that M4A should not be pursued and everything must be framed as an extension of Obama, progressives aren't shackled to the Obama legacy and have the freedom to think outside the establishment box. His relative popularity within the Democratic Party doesn't mean shyt when it comes to accurately assessing the material results of his actions and inactions.
This is a hefty Juelz.

He merely point out that the progressive wave isn't so much a rebuke to Obama and Neoliberalism, but instead a launching point for modern progressive politics in this country because they are all building upon many of Obamas key initiatives.

The popularity of Obama and the popularity of Obama, Obamas signature legislation, and the popularity of progressive policies that overlap prove as much.

:unimpressed:
 

Warren Moon

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If Gerald Ford ran for President before Ronald Reagan did, and the last time you voted for a Republican in Ford's election, then that means you didn't vote for Reagan...

Look man, I'm open to having a discussion, and I gave you the benefit of the doubt after your debate night gaffe, but I'm sorry I cannot take you seriously if this is the caliber of thinking you're going to be displaying. You're in here peddling stale Republican crap. I wish you well.

I understand that, the point is she’s lying.

If Donald trump has racist dog whistles and you can see it, why can’t u admit when she’s lying?:snoop:

If she didn’t vote for Reagan, why does she refuse to say so? She’s incredibly progressive(supposedly). What does she gain by not saying she didn’t vote for Reagan?


And why do you continue to overlook her record defending corporations against consumers? Legal Representation of Major Corporations - Elizabeth Warren Wiki

This is the third time I posted it . Are you going to refuse to address it?

To sum it up, two questions. I’d like two answers

If she didn’t vote for Reagan, why does she refuse to say so?

And how is her record on defending corporations in court, not progressing the corporate agenda? Legal Representation of Major Corporations - Elizabeth Warren Wiki
 

King Kreole

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You're not living in reality. But I think this is more you as a Trump voter failing to accept you were conned in plain sight.
I never voted for Donald Trump, sorry. And if anyone was conned, it was those who saw the inevitability/invincibility of Hillary Clinton's brand of tepid neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism is an economic theory that has been long defined.

Free market capitalism - - deregulation, privatization of public resources, the dissolution of the welfare state.

That fact that you want to juxtapose it with political progressivism is why you keep having these positions that don't always make sense when trying to label anyone who isn't a progressive as a neoliberal.

Donald Trump is more of a neoliberal than anything Obama pushed.
One key tenet of neoliberalism you're missing is the globalization of capital via free trade, hence the corporatist trade deals that dominate our current economic system. To try and render an understanding of our economic status quo without addressing that aspect leaves one crucially short. Obama is very obviously a neoliberal. That was the political ideology he was formed under, word to Adolph Reed. It's heavily interwoven into his most signature policies. Obamacare is a neoliberal approach to health care due to the primacy of private industry in its ecosystem. Dodd-Frank was a neoliberal approach to financial regulation due to the financial industry helping to write the damn thing, and evidenced by their unabated misbehavior post-implementation. Obama himself doesn't reject this claim and draws a direct economic lineage between Reagan to Bush Sr to Clinton to Bush Jr to his administration.



But if you believe he is not, then I'm curious to hear how you would categorize his ideology. And if not Obama, then who is neoliberal? You say Donald Trump is neoliberal, in spite of his utilization of distinctly non-neoliberal trade tools like tariffs in pursuit of non-neoliberal policies like a trade war with China. I'd like to know who else you think is a neoliberal.

Ergo, 2016 was not a rejection of neoliberalism
:yeshrug:


See, this right here is exactly why I fight this fight and take the negs instead of just moving on. It is essential for the Democratic Party and voters at large to see neoliberalism as a failed project so we don't repeat the same mistakes that have left America in this gutted, fukked place that is is right now, where right-wing fascism becomes a viable option.

And just as a point of historical accuracy, using your own definition of neoliberalism, Trump didn't strongly run as one. When it came to the biggest issue of the welfare state in that Republican primary, cutting Social Security and privatizing the VA, Trump publically and controversially bucked Republican orthodoxy and refused to endorse SS cuts and point blank said "No." when asked if he wanted to privatize the VA. Yes, deregulation was always a central element of his economic platform, but he viewed corporations as subordinate to the American government (as long as he's in charge, which is evidence of his autocratic narcissism), to the degree he threatened to economically punish them if they used globalized routes to take their capital to other countries in the wake of tax hikes. That is antithetical to neoliberalism.

Trump didn't campaign as a neoliberal, he campaigned as a populist xenophobe. The idea that he won the election by campaigning as just another typical Republican but with some racist makeup plastered on is one of the most dangerous myths in American political discourse. I say that not to give props to Trump - he's a grotesque clown - but to highlight an emerging consensus amongst the general population that the existing neoliberal order has failed and they want something else. If Democrats don't fill that space with progressivism, then Trumpian-Republicans will fill it with neo-fascism. Returning to neoliberalism is fatal.

And I don't label anyone who isn't a progressive a neoliberal. Trump is neither. There are a host of politico-economic ideologies besides progressivism and neoliberalism. The reason I didn't highlight them in my previous post is that they're not particularly relevant to this conversation about Democratic Party. There isn't a meaningfully large contingent of Marxists or Anarcho-primitivists or Libertarians in the Democratic coalition.

This is a hefty Juelz.

He merely point out that the progressive wave isn't so much a rebuke to Obama and Neoliberalism, but instead a launching point for modern progressive politics in this country because they are all building upon many of Obamas key initiatives.

The popularity of Obama and the popularity of Obama, Obamas signature legislation, and the popularity of progressive policies that overlap prove as much.

:unimpressed:

Yeah and I'm merely pointing out that Chait's argument is a stunningly superficial, idiotic one that totally ignores the entirety of the raft of current political activity/warfare in order to preserve the egos of Democratic elitist who refuse to consider they were also on the wrong side of history. It's honestly pathetic. None of the Squad are out there begging for Obama's endorsement. Bernie and Liz aren't out there with Obama's name in their mouths 24/7. No progressive is touting his record on anything. His only relevancy is his celebrity, nothing ideological.
 
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