2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[FAH1223]

 

[FAH1223]

Bernie

 

[King Kreole]

That oppo research on Pete dropping

Welcome to the big leagues

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Bernie

yall know damn well Trump numbers ain't drop yet so I don't know why LUNTZ is acting like this changes anything

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Oh. Whats this?

 

[FAH1223]

yall know damn well Trump numbers ain't drop yet so I don't know why LUNTZ is acting like this changes anything

these are as of 9/30/19

 

[Warren Moon]

If you purposefully confuse employer-side taxes for employee-side taxes, you're peddling in right-wing economics. I don't care what publication you write that in or what emoji you have next to your twitter handle. It's a dangerous and wrongheaded line of thinking that negates working class power by turning workers into shields for corporations.


Regressive taxes on businesses are very different than regressive taxes on actual people/workers. The fact that this has to be explained is ridiculous but here we are. Levying a tax on a company composed of mainly lower-income workers is by definition regressive, but regressivity in itself is not a problem. It's a problem when it's levied on individuals via income tax. But because we distinguish between corporations and the economic status of their workers, a regressive employer-side tax isn't necessarily a problem. For example, do you know what companies would be the losers in Liz's progressive head tax? Amazon. Walmart. Home Depot. McDonalds. Kroger. FedEx. DHL. These companies are disproportionately composed of low-income workers, but the companies themselves are very rich. These are the companies a progressive corporate payroll tax structure would be protecting, but they can afford a tax hike. Liz's flat/regressive head tax is protecting the knowledge economy companies that pay their workers high wages. I'm personally more in favor of incentivizing wage increases (head tax) than I am low-wage hiring (payroll tax), which is why I favor Liz's approach.


Both you and the general anti-Liz discourse were arguing that companies would avoid the head tax by shedding to get below the 50 head trigger, but I'm glad we've agreed on that being a ridiculous concern.

I previously asked you whether you think efforts to expand government healthcare over the past decade were responsible for the multiple decades-long trend of contracting that started in the 1960s, and you correctly said no. I'm not sure why you're backtracking now. Contracting is a bigger, more long-term, structural problem than a head tax would induce. Utilizing a payroll tax instead of a head tax isn't going to solve the issue of contracting, because contracting isn't a health care originated issue, it's a broader, labor rights issue. Liz handles the concern of contracting through supporting laws attacking employee misclassification in her labor rights plan, where it rightfully belongs. If your idea is that companies are already contracting due to healthcare costs pre-M4A, why would Liz's plan to reduce that company's healthcare costs by 2% induce a massive wave of contracting? The pertinent question is "How does the situation change for a business if Liz's plan is implemented?" The 50 head tax trigger is already here via the employer mandate. Average healthcare costs will decrease by 2% for companies. There is no new major cost increase these companies are facing. So what exactly would trigger a massive exacerbation in corporate behavior re:contracting?


My claim was never that contracting wasn't a large scale phenomenon across the economic landscape. In fact, just the opposite, I have been claiming that it is a long-term, deep-rooted trend going back decades. Which is why Liz's plans to combat employee misclassification are necessary. What's expensive and cumbersome is breaking up your large company to get under 50 employers just to avoid paying 2% less in healthcare costs via the current head tax system.

But all employers have to do is not give raises and fire some ppl. Y’all are arguing semantics.

regular ppl will pay, they always do

 

[JoogJoint]

all this nonsense stops in the South. Feelings will be hurt, dreams will be bursted, but we tried to tell ya

#BidenBoyz2020

I'm glad to see meltdowns by White Neo-Liberal Elites when I go to the polls.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

the bolded doesn't really mean the average voter...and quite honestly, he's not really the person to speak on it as he's likely involved with the highest information voters and or course actual politicians. lobbyists, media and other washington insiders


you're overcomplicating it, a lot of people don't like hilary for optics/personality issues as opposed to obama. there isn't some deeper digging into policies (staffing...which c'mon, this is a political elite thing, the average voter cant pinpoint a policy issue let alone staffs ) and whatnot. i really don't know what segment of voters yall are speaking for/or, but you talk to regular ass people and it's all a personality thing

What are you talking about right now that refutes my statement. I said that DESPITE them having the SAME preference for appointment/nomination, stans LOOK PAST THIS and settle on their personalities. Then these stans have the audacity to hate the other person for failed policies that the other person would've proceeded with as well .

It's cute when it's the person you like. It's "understandable" when you and the other stan are stanning the same person.

But when you're fighting the cult of personality (Trump) now it's " why do people still like him?" "But don't they care about the tariffs!? "

Then you run into the same "I'm all about personality" voters who feel beholden to Biden and Pete because they never had to develop a need for policy preferences and then you guys get amnesia all over again.

Did this really need 3 posts to explain or did you feel some type of way because you're a Hillary hater? I have no idea how you feel about Obama, but it's like you're trying to defend yourself without actually defending yourself.

 

[JoogJoint]

breh I live in the south. His sexuality is still of concern to the average black church goer. And that’s ALOT of them.

I live in the South as well, SC to be exact, his sexuality is part of the problem, but that doesn't apply to us all. Same with my parents and their Baby Boomers. Hell, they don't like Biden much either.

His sexuality isn't a "Black problem" when majority of Southern White Christians ain't with homosexuality either. I don't agree with just calling out Black Southerners for this.

 

[Atlrocafella]

I live in the South as well, SC to be exact, his sexuality is part of the problem, but that doesn't apply to us all. Same with my parents and their Baby Boomers. Hell, they don't like Biden much either.

His sexuality isn't a "Black problem" when majority of Southern White Christians ain't with homosexuality either. I don't agree with just calling out Black Southerners for this.

Facts.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

What are you talking about right now that refutes my statement. I said that DESPITE them having the SAME preference for appointment/nomination, stans LOOK PAST THIS and settle on their personalities. Then these stans have the audacity to hate the other person for failed policies that the other person would've proceeded with as well .

It's cute when it's the person you like. It's "understandable" when you and the other stan are stanning the same person.

But when you're fighting the cult of personality (Trump) now it's " why do people still like him?" "But don't they care about the tariffs!? "

Then you run into the same "I'm all about personality" voters who feel beholden to Biden and Pete because they never had to develop a need for policy preferences and then you guys get amnesia all over again.

Did this really need 3 posts to explain or did you feel some type of way because you're a Hillary hater? I have no idea how you feel about Obama, but it's like you're trying to defend yourself without actually defending yourself.

Where did you get I’m a Hilary hater? And you’re talking about Stans when the average voter isn’t a stan or that seriously invested in these people. At this point I don’t know who or what segment of people you’re talking about...so whatever

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Where did you get I’m a Hilary hater? And you’re talking about Stans when the average voter isn’t a stan or that seriously invested in these people. At this point I don’t know who or what segment of people you’re talking about...so whatever

Bro get out of here

You can watch 0 politics, 0 news and still be a stan...stop...you're just arguing for 3/4 posts now just to argue

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Everytime I try to enter this conversation @King Kreole drops another fantastic post that makes me not even bother.

Warren should get you on the team fam


Also at Bernie having some super secret plan that he's holding onto in order to not have his enemies what? "Work changing everything they could to stop Bernie from making these exact moves" Wtf does this bullshyt even mean? Like they aren't going to do whatever it takes to stop him regardless of what he actually has up his sleeve. Like there is some miracle potion he has hidden in a safe somewhere that they can never predict but only if he saves it to the last minute? fukk out of here.

she shown transparency in every policy shes dropped then they criticize that and move goalposts and throw a republican talking point or two. Can’t satisfy these dudes man.

she put out a clear plan on how she was going to roll out loan forgiveness how it was getting paid for and that gets attacked too.


You try to show the public how you’re going to pay for these plans and how the process will work and what do they say “Na you’re showing your hand”

You let em know you back medicare for all and don’t give specifics right away they’re like “ Na you’re not being clear enough, you haven’t been on this wave like Bernie and just going where the win blows”

son, I can’t with some of these clowns in here. Just want to argue just argue going on diatribes on how a plan won’t work or how the way they’re doing said plan will not work.

I’m coming in here to see each candidates point of views on the issues not to read pages upon pages of arguments from disingenuous trolls