2011-2016 Legion Of Boom Appreciation Thread...

[murksiderock]

Some of those Raven defenses?

Ray Lewis
Ed Reed
Terrell Suggs
Haloti Ngata

Reed and Lewis always elevated the play of the corners and linebackers because of their intellect. And Suggs and Ngata on the d-line was nasty.

No disrespect to the Seahawks though, loved that defence too.

The Ravens longest run of sustained greatness was 2008-2011, 4 seasons. Unbelievably, they were the #3 scoring defense all four years. This is the longest stretch that they were a Top 7 scoring defense...

They were never #1...

In this 4-year run, they produced these Pro Bowlers:

Haloti Ngata (4x)
Ray Lewis (4x)
Ed Reed (4x)
Terrell Suggs (3x)

An these All-Pros:

Ngata (4x)
Reed (4x)
Ray (3x)
Suggs (2x)

That Ravens run was serious, four Hall of Famers, but it wasn't as prolific as the LOB era...

For the combination of the 4-year Ravens run and the 6-year Hawks run, while keeping in mind a)the Ravens were never the #1 defense but the Hawks were #1 four years in a row, and b)The League got more and more pass happy and offensively favored with each passing year;

Keeping those two things in mind, here were the five best scoring years between these two runs:

'13 Hawks (231 points allowed)
'08 Ravens (244)
'12 Hawks (245)
'14 Hawks (254)
'09 Ravens (261)

Three of the four best years were Hawks defenses and they did it in an era where guys were breaking all kinds of offensive records. Nobody was breaking many offensive records in the Ravens run, but for sure they were in the Seahawks run...

Those Ravens never won a championship, or even got to a Super Bowl. The LOB made it to two Super Bowls and besides the dumbest call in NFL history, they would be 2x champions. The Ravens went 0-2 in AFC Championship games, only won their division once, and were a mediocre 5-4 in the playoffs. Now they only lost by more than 10 once (2009), and only allowed 30 points once (2010) but were just .500 on the road. They allowed fewer than 20 points in 5 of those games, fewer than 10 in two of those games...

The Hawks went 8-4 in the playoffs, were 2-0 in the NFCCG. They did allow 30 points three times in the playoffs, but allowed under 20 points 7 times, and under 10 three times...

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

The Ravens longest run of sustained greatness was 2008-2011, 4 seasons. Unbelievably, they were the #3 scoring defense all four years. This is the longest stretch that they were a Top 7 scoring defense...

They were never #1...

In this 4-year run, they produced these Pro Bowlers:

Haloti Ngata (4x)
Ray Lewis (4x)
Ed Reed (4x)
Terrell Suggs (3x)

An these All-Pros:

Ngata (4x)
Reed (4x)
Ray (3x)
Suggs (2x)

That Ravens run was serious, four Hall of Famers, but it wasn't as prolific as the LOB era...

For the combination of the 4-year Ravens run and the 6-year Hawks run, while keeping in mind a)the Ravens were never the #1 defense but the Hawks were #1 four years in a row, and b)The League got more and more pass happy and offensively favored with each passing year;

Keeping those two things in mind, here were the five best scoring years between these two runs:

'13 Hawks (231 points allowed)
'08 Ravens (244)
'12 Hawks (245)
'14 Hawks (254)
'09 Ravens (261)

Three of the four best years were Hawks defenses and they did it in an era where guys were breaking all kinds of offensive records. Nobody was breaking many offensive records in the Ravens run, but for sure they were in the Seahawks run...

Those Ravens never won a championship, or even got to a Super Bowl. The LOB made it to two Super Bowls and besides the dumbest call in NFL history, they would be 2x champions. The Ravens went 0-2 in AFC Championship games, only won their division once, and were a mediocre 5-4 in the playoffs. Now they only lost by more than 10 once (2009), and only allowed 30 points once (2010) but were just .500 on the road. They allowed fewer than 20 points in 5 of those games, fewer than 10 in two of those games...

The Hawks went 8-4 in the playoffs, were 2-0 in the NFCCG. They did allow 30 points three times in the playoffs, but allowed under 20 points 7 times, and under 10 three times...

What about 1999-2007? The ravens were consistently top shelf on defense from 1999 up until their second super bowl win. They had a down year here or there that was ruined by injuries, but that wasn’t exactly common, and that would include all 3 defensive player of the year seasons between Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. The list is absolutely incomplete if it doesn’t include their 2000 and 2006 teams, which includes arguably the best defensive showing in super bowl history. Not to sell the hawks short. Their 2012-14 units especially stand up with any great unit ever. I don’t think the 2013 team even allowed any team to put up 25 in a single game.

Edit: it should also be noted that the ravens did all that with consistently mediocre quarterback play and both conference title game losses saw their qb make a colossal mistake on the final drive to cost them the game.

 

[murksiderock]

What about 1999-2007? The ravens were consistently top shelf on defense from 1999 up until their second super bowl win. They had a down year here or there that was ruined by injuries, but that wasn’t exactly common, and that would include all 3 defensive player of the year seasons between Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. The list is absolutely incomplete if it doesn’t include their 2000 and 2006 teams, which includes arguably the best defensive showing in super bowl history. Not to sell the hawks short. Their 2012-14 units especially stand up with any great unit ever. I don’t think the 2013 team even allowed any team to put up 25 in a single game.

1999-2007? Nah bruh, I'm not allowing any Baltimore Ravens revisionist shyt here. Not tonight lol...

The Ravens were the #19 scoring defense in '02, #10 in '05, and #22 in '07. If we're saying they were All-Time from 1999-2007, that means the Seahawks are still playing at an All-Time level---->the Hawks were #14 in '17, and #11 in '18. Since 2011, they have never been as low as the '02 or '07 Ravens, but nobody would say the Seahawks defense is still running The League. I'm talking about sustained greatness, the Ravens did not sustain elite defensive play year over year; 3 years (1999-2001), 2 years ('03, '04), and 4 years (2008-2011). If you want to generously expand the criteria for what "elite" means, we're about to be including a lot of elite runs...

The '00 and '06 Ravens were lethal, but weren't a part of long, sustained runs...

That's what makes the Hawks so special, they sustained defensive brilliance for an unprecedented stretch that just doesn't happen in professional football...

Furthermore, the Ravens missed the playoffs 5 times in the 9-year window you're giving them. Don't tell me about how great your defense is if they can miss the playoffs 5 times in 9 years. Another thing that makes the Hawks special is they elevated over inept offense to not just make the playoffs, they won the division three times, made the playoffs five times, and never lost their first game...

Now the 1999-2001 run was special, the '00 Ravens are arguably the greatest 1-year defense ever. But the Seahawks shattered the bar for long-term defensive brilliance in a league where careers are short...

The Ravens have more than enough moments to reminisce on, but they aren't fukking with the LOB...

 

[murksiderock]

The 2008-2011 Ravens, their longest sustained period of greatness, lost six games by 10+ points. 2010 was the only year they didn't lose a contest by 10, compare that to the Hawks putting up three consecutive years of not losing by 10...

So that means even when the offense wasn't competitive enough, the Seahawks weren't getting blown out as often...

The Ravens had a .688 win percentage in this stretch, slightly lower than the Hawks, and we already know the LOB was winning thr division more and winning more in the playoffs...

The 2008-2011 Ravens allowed 30 points just five times in 4 years, which is a slightly better percentage than LOB's 11 times in 6 years. They allowed fewer than 20 points in 42 games (that's 66% of games, 58% for Hawks), and fewer than 10 in 13 games (20%, compared to 28% for Hawks). So there are measures you can point out the Ravens were slightly better...

But the Hawks ran half the NFL, the NFC, for half a decade. They were culture setters, trend setters, and had a legendary impact. The 2008-2011 Ravens were great, but winning the division once (vs 3x for Seattle), having a barely .500 playoff record, losing in both AFCCG's (compared to 2-0 for Seattle), never making a Super Bowl, and not having the longevity (4 years vs 6 years), the best period of great Ravens D is below the bar set by the LOB. Or rather, the LOB saw the blueprint the Ravens created, and made it better...

Greatest defense of all time and it's high time everybody recognizes them as such!

 

[darius19]

The Ravens longest run of sustained greatness was 2008-2011, 4 seasons. Unbelievably, they were the #3 scoring defense all four years. This is the longest stretch that they were a Top 7 scoring defense...

They were never #1...

In this 4-year run, they produced these Pro Bowlers:

Haloti Ngata (4x)
Ray Lewis (4x)
Ed Reed (4x)
Terrell Suggs (3x)

An these All-Pros:

Ngata (4x)
Reed (4x)
Ray (3x)
Suggs (2x)

That Ravens run was serious, four Hall of Famers, but it wasn't as prolific as the LOB era...

For the combination of the 4-year Ravens run and the 6-year Hawks run, while keeping in mind a)the Ravens were never the #1 defense but the Hawks were #1 four years in a row, and b)The League got more and more pass happy and offensively favored with each passing year;

Keeping those two things in mind, here were the five best scoring years between these two runs:

'13 Hawks (231 points allowed)
'08 Ravens (244)
'12 Hawks (245)
'14 Hawks (254)
'09 Ravens (261)

Three of the four best years were Hawks defenses and they did it in an era where guys were breaking all kinds of offensive records. Nobody was breaking many offensive records in the Ravens run, but for sure they were in the Seahawks run...

Those Ravens never won a championship, or even got to a Super Bowl. The LOB made it to two Super Bowls and besides the dumbest call in NFL history, they would be 2x champions. The Ravens went 0-2 in AFC Championship games, only won their division once, and were a mediocre 5-4 in the playoffs. Now they only lost by more than 10 once (2009), and only allowed 30 points once (2010) but were just .500 on the road. They allowed fewer than 20 points in 5 of those games, fewer than 10 in two of those games...

The Hawks went 8-4 in the playoffs, were 2-0 in the NFCCG. They did allow 30 points three times in the playoffs, but allowed under 20 points 7 times, and under 10 three times...

Thoughtful post breh, good shyt.

This is one of those where I think if you asked a QB or coach, they’d say the Ravens defence was tougher because with Reed and Lewis you essentially had 2 defensive coaches on the field lol. Now if you ask a back or receiver, I think they’d say Seattle lol. That defence was swaggy and could hit for sure.

 

[murksiderock]

Thoughtful post breh, good shyt.

This is one of those where I think if you asked a QB or coach, they’d say the Ravens defence was tougher because with Reed and Lewis you essentially had 2 defensive coaches on the field lol. Now if you ask a back or receiver, I think they’d say Seattle lol. That defence was swaggy and could hit for sure.

This is a fair analysis!

 

[Nostalgic]

The LOB Killa

Them Falcons and Seahawks games were straight piff.

That 2012 divisional game.

 

[Flex Grossman]

I’ll nominate the 99-03 bucs.

Warren sapp
Simeon Rice
Derrick Brooks
Ronde Barber
John Lynch
Super bowl mvp dexter Jackson
Shelton quarles was also a pro bowler in that time.

 

[Stop_It_5]

 

[murksiderock]

I’ll nominate the 99-03 bucs.

Warren sapp
Simeon Rice
Derrick Brooks
Ronde Barber
John Lynch
Super bowl mvp dexter Jackson
Shelton quarles was also a pro bowler in that time.

That's a strong nomination and I remember them, they were really good. They were only #1 once (2002), and were outside of the Top 7 twice. But they were nasty...

I just think most of the football world didn't realize it in real time, that we were watching the Seahawks reset the bar for elite defense. They for sure weren't perfect, there's no such thing as a perfect team on either side of the ball, but that level of production for that long is unprecedented and truly the GOAT...

 

[The Coochie Assassin]

Great thread. Should be stickied.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

That's a strong nomination and I remember them, they were really good. They were only #1 once (2002), and were outside of the Top 7 twice. But they were nasty...

I just think most of the football world didn't realize it in real time, that we were watching the Seahawks reset the bar for elite defense. They for sure weren't perfect, there's no such thing as a perfect team on either side of the ball, but that level of production for that long is unprecedented and truly the GOAT...

I think they were top ten in points allowed every year from 1997-2005

 

[murksiderock]

I think they were top ten in points allowed every year from 1997-2005

1996-2005, that's ten seasons as a Top 10 defense and warrants it's own merit. That may be something else no one has ever done and I'm going to look into that deeper...

In those 10 years the Bucs produced the following Pro Bowlers:

Derrick Brooks (9x)
Warren Sapp (7x)
John Lynch (5x)
Hardy Nickerson (4x)
Ronde Barber (3x)
Simeon Rice (2x)
Donnie Abraham
Shelton Quarles

And All-Pros:

Brooks (8x)
Sapp (5x)
Lynch (4x)
Barber (4x)
Nickerson (3x)
Rice (2x)

We may have found a worthy challenger to the LOB. A decade as a Top 10 D is nothing to sneeze at...

What I'll say is this though, this defense missed the playoffs half of this decade (5 of the 10 years). They were only 5-5 in the playoffs, and 1-1 in the NFC Championship---->compare this to the LOB who only missed the playoffs 1/6 years, were 8-4 in the playoffs, and 2-0 in the NFCCG....

Your defense can still be All-Time great, but loses points in GOAT debates if they struggled to lead a team to the playoffs. These Bucs squads were obviously stacked, but why didn't it translate to wins? Don't tell me how great your defense is and you miss the playoffs 50% of the time, that's an indication that they struggled more than the Hawks to seal victories when needed...

I'm going to give it all a closer look, the Bucs deserve that respect, but the evidence is there that the LOB performed better at higher stake moments...

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

1996-2005, that's ten seasons as a Top 10 defense and warrants it's own merit. That may be something else no one has ever done and I'm going to look into that deeper...

In those 10 years the Bucs produced the following Pro Bowlers:

Derrick Brooks (9x)
Warren Sapp (7x)
John Lynch (5x)
Hardy Nickerson (4x)
Ronde Barber (3x)
Simeon Rice (2x)
Donnie Abraham
Shelton Quarles

And All-Pros:

Brooks (8x)
Sapp (5x)
Lynch (4x)
Barber (4x)
Nickerson (3x)
Rice (2x)

We may have found a worthy challenger to the LOB. A decade as a Top 10 D is nothing to sneeze at...

What I'll say is this though, this defense missed the playoffs half of this decade (5 of the 10 years). They were only 5-5 in the playoffs, and 1-1 in the NFC Championship---->compare this to the LOB who only missed the playoffs 1/6 years, were 8-4 in the playoffs, and 2-0 in the NFCCG....

Your defense can still be All-Time great, but loses points in GOAT debates if they struggled to lead a team to the playoffs. These Bucs squads were obviously stacked, but why didn't it translate to wins? Don't tell me how great your defense is and you miss the playoffs 50% of the time, that's an indication that they struggled more than the Hawks to seal victories when needed...

I'm going to give it all a closer look, the Bucs deserve that respect, but the evidence is there that the LOB performed better at higher stake moments...

Defense can only carry a team so far, especially with bad quarterback player and the buccaneers are another great example just like the ravens usually were. At some point, your offense needs to step up if you’re going to win. In their losses to the eagles, I don’t think the bucs offense got into the end zone at all and the conference title game they lost to the rams was the same thing. They lost 11-6. They held the greatest show on turf to 11 points and still lost. Here’s their offense on a yearly basis:

1996: 13.8 points (30th out of 30)
1997: 18.7 (23rd)
1998: 19.6 (18th)
1999: 16.9 (27th)
2000: 24.3 (6th)
2001: 20.3 (15th)
2002: 21.6 (18th)
2003: 18.8 (18th)
2004: 18.8 (23rd)
2005: 18.8 (20th)


That’s just once in their run where the offense could be relied on to score points. For some reason, the great defenses in league history rarely get paired up with a quality quarterback & an offense that can put points on the board. It’s a rare luxury, which is what made the Seahawks such an anomaly. During that 2012-16 run, they were top ten in scoring each of their first 4 seasons.

 

[murksiderock]

@Raquinotj

I respect your football mind, just read this thread if you don't want to do the hard work and actually research their accomplishments...

Comparing them to the '17 Jags is a slap in the fukking face lmao, LOB is the greatest defense of all time from a consistent, longevity perspective, in a league (Not For Long) where the average career is 3.5 years...

'13 LOB is a Top 10 1-year GOAT defense. You should be ashamed of yourself hahahaha...