Netanyahu to US: 'Don't ever second-guess me again'
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Can you turn your back on water??We don't need allies who have a populace that is comfortable with pieces like this going out. Just the fact that this dude thought this was okay is a sign that we need to reconsider...
Here's the full text of the deleted Times of Israel post backing genocide in Gaza
Updated by Max Fisher on August 1, 2014, 12:41 p.m. ET @Max_Fisher max@vox.com
The English-language Israeli publication Times of Israel today published, and then quickly deleted, a blog post by the writer Yochanan Gordon with the extremely inflammatory headline "When Genocide is Permissible." The post does not explicitly endorse the genocide of Palestinians, but it asks if doing so would be morally justified after building up the case it would be and presenting only evidence in the affirmative.
"What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?" Gordon asks. And later, arguing that Hamas will never accept peace and that Israel is justified in doing anything necessary to impose it, "If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?"
We've preserved the full text of the now-deleted blog post below; you can read it for yourself. This is not because Gordon himself is a particularly influential writer, much less a political leader of any kind, but because this post represents an extreme iteration of a much broader problem, in which the conflict and the discourse around it exacerbates and empowers extremism on both sides of the conversation. There is real social science behind this phenomenon, which pushes the politics of the conflict away from peace and toward more hard-line positions, as well as raising voices that de-humanize the "other side" in a way that makes it easier to perpetuate the fighting.
Again, this post is obviously an extreme position, which is why the Times of Israel deleted it, but it is most unusual not for his argument for the plain-stated clumsiness of it. Both the Israeli far-right and Palestinian militant groups will at times advocate for the absolute elimination of the other side from the land; they just know how to do it in a way that won't raise so many eyebrows.
Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it's now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war - because when it comes to terror there is much more than meets the eye.
I wasn't aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems - and judging by the number of foul calls it would indicate - that today's wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.
The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more regarding its interests than even they do. But there's going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings - because this is life or death.
Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it's not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve - they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it. To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you - you take him seriously.
Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?
News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you'll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave - well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.
Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.
I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?
Disgusting.
Even some holocaust survivors are
at what Israel is doing.
Whites too caught up in race.
Things are changing and most ordinary whites get blamed for how Jews like Donald Sterling behave.
that'll never happen. it's easy to play the same ppl let alone different ppl against each other.
Seriously, if Blacks protested white supremacy. They won't get much progress outside of economics and working together but if Whites decided enough is enough fairness for ALL. Everyone would and change would come but whites have too much too lose in white supremacy which is why they would rather die for it then do things to fight tyranny.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
But why, what's the reasoning behind the unconditional backing of Israel, they don't even teach us this in school or university for that matter
As has been said before, money on one side (US) and guilt on the other (Europe). Whenever one criticizes Israël in Europe, he/she is suspected of being anti-semitic or a nazi-sympathiser or extreme-right. Plus Europe and Israël are "objective" allies in their racism against Arabs (same applies to the US).
I agree with all of this except the underlined, because the US didn't defeat the Nazis on its own nor was it totally innocent in its dealings with the 3rd Reich. Just like other Western countries.
But yes, without the US basically funding Israël, they wouldn't be doing what they are today.
Bomberman
Like a C4.
This is who our tax dollars go to.
it's not to white ppl's interest to protest against white supremacy. that doesn't even make sense why they should. nothing can be done without their vote.
they will ask for fairness when the zionists in wall street and govt crush them and they don't have nothing. and of course the ones living in the minority amongst black ppl will ask for fairness. and the black minority in white areas will ask for fairness too.
i'm yet to see any group of ppl with power who don't abuse it.
This isn't true. Netanyahu and his ilk have made it so that Israel only holds majority support in US and parts of Africa (mostly having to do with aid or because they also deal with terrorism).
How the world sees Israel, in one chart
Updated by Zack Beauchamp on July 29, 2014, 1:20 p.m. ET @zackbeauchamp zack@vox.com
There've been demonstrations around the world over the war between Israel and Hamas, often against Israel's role in the conflict. So clearly some people feel strongly about the issue, but what does everyone else think? There's data to help answer this. A regular BBC World Service poll on international views of Israel tells us a lot of interesting things about how the country is perceived and its place in the world.
The BBC poll asks people in 22 countries (plus, some years, a few others) whether they have a "mainly positive" or "mainly negative" view about a list of countries set by the BBC. Here are the results for Israel from the past three years — it's important to look at all of them, because the 2012 survey was conducted before Israel's generally unpopular 2012 aerial campaign in Gaza:
There's a lot to pick apart in here, but there are some obvious, consistent findings that are really interesting.
Most countries have a pretty dim view of Israel's influence on the world
In almost every country surveyed, over all three years, more people said they had a "mainly negative" than "mainly positive" view of Israel. This was true in every surveyed country in Asia, Europe, and South America.
The BBC lists a "global average" for each year that shows about two-to-one negative over positive views, although the poll does not specify whether this metric weights for country size.
Israel is viewed most positively in the United States and sub-Saharan Africa
It's well known that Israel polls well inside the United States (here's why). But Israel's relatively strong numbers in Ghana and Kenya, as well as its strong result in Nigeria in 2012, might be more surprising.
There's a few potential explanations. One is that, shortly after Israel's founding, the country made a concerted effort to reach out to sub-Saharan African states. Israel, as University of Ghana political scientists Kwame Boafo-Arthur and E. Gyimah-Boadi explain, was a vocal supporter of decolonization in the 1950s and an early and enthusiastic provider of foreign aid.
This relationship soured in the 70s and 80s over Israeli support for apartheid South Africa and conflict with Arab states, but Boafo-Arthur and Boadi see a general trend towards improved relations between Israel and African states in the post-Cold War era. About 40 African states either reopened shuttered relations with Israel or established them for the first time, and sub-state economic ties flourished.
Another potential explanation is more specific to some of the countries in the poll. Both Kenya and Nigeria face serious threats from Islamist militant groups (al-Shabaab and Boko Haram, respectively). This might make them more sympathetic to nations, like Israel, taking aggressive military actions against what they might see as similar threats. Indeed, Kenya and Nigeria are among a small handful of countries around the world whose publics have a net-positive view of America's drone program.
Public sentiment about Israel doesn't seem to determine a country's Israel-Palestine policy
While most publics may broadly see Israel negatively, that is not always reflected in government policy. This map, which shows which countries have formal diplomatic relations with just with Israel (blue), just with Palestine (green), or both (grey), is a rough barometer for how governments approach the conflict:
Saint Tepes/Wikimedia Commons
The pattern among countries in Europe and the Pacific are particularly striking. These countries' citizens tend to be pretty critical of Israel. French people, for example, hold negative views of Israel over positive by a three-to-one margin. Yet their governments have full diplomatic relations with Israel and do not recognize Palestine as an independent country. The reasons for that are complex and have to do with views of how to adjudicate the conflict as much as with international politics, but the point is that popular views of Israel do not necessarily predict government policy on Israel-Palestine.
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Disgusting.
Not one dissenting voice in any branch of the Federal Government. No Ron Paul or Kucinich. Hagel was forced to tap dance for AIPAC to get the SecDef position because he simply stated he was a US Senator, not Israeli senator. A lot of tap dancing for Israel and AIPAC at local and state level governments too.
Eisenhowers firmness against Israel during the Suez Canal crisis seems like fiction now.
Politicians going out of their way to grovel. Stumbling over themselves to send more aid, ammo and support.
Just pathetic to witness. Even from politicians like Warren, Sanders, Ellison and so on.
Not one dissenting voice in any branch of the Federal Government. No Ron Paul or Kucinich. Hagel was forced to tap dance for AIPAC to get the SecDef position because he simply stated he was a US Senator, not Israeli senator. A lot of tap dancing for Israel and AIPAC at local and state level governments too.
Eisenhowers firmness against Israel during the Suez Canal crisis seems like fiction now.
Politicians going out of their way to grovel. Stumbling over themselves to send more aid, ammo and support.
Just pathetic to witness. Even from politicians like Warren, Sanders, Ellison and so on.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
This isn't true. Netanyahu and his ilk have made it so that Israel only holds majority support in US and parts of Africa (mostly having to do with aid or because they also deal with terrorism).
How the world sees Israel, in one chart
Updated by Zack Beauchamp on July 29, 2014, 1:20 p.m. ET @zackbeauchamp zack@vox.com
There've been demonstrations around the world over the war between Israel and Hamas, often against Israel's role in the conflict. So clearly some people feel strongly about the issue, but what does everyone else think? There's data to help answer this. A regular BBC World Service poll on international views of Israel tells us a lot of interesting things about how the country is perceived and its place in the world.
The BBC poll asks people in 22 countries (plus, some years, a few others) whether they have a "mainly positive" or "mainly negative" view about a list of countries set by the BBC. Here are the results for Israel from the past three years — it's important to look at all of them, because the 2012 survey was conducted before Israel's generally unpopular 2012 aerial campaign in Gaza:
There's a lot to pick apart in here, but there are some obvious, consistent findings that are really interesting.
Most countries have a pretty dim view of Israel's influence on the world
In almost every country surveyed, over all three years, more people said they had a "mainly negative" than "mainly positive" view of Israel. This was true in every surveyed country in Asia, Europe, and South America.
The BBC lists a "global average" for each year that shows about two-to-one negative over positive views, although the poll does not specify whether this metric weights for country size.
Israel is viewed most positively in the United States and sub-Saharan Africa
It's well known that Israel polls well inside the United States (here's why). But Israel's relatively strong numbers in Ghana and Kenya, as well as its strong result in Nigeria in 2012, might be more surprising.
There's a few potential explanations. One is that, shortly after Israel's founding, the country made a concerted effort to reach out to sub-Saharan African states. Israel, as University of Ghana political scientists Kwame Boafo-Arthur and E. Gyimah-Boadi explain, was a vocal supporter of decolonization in the 1950s and an early and enthusiastic provider of foreign aid.
This relationship soured in the 70s and 80s over Israeli support for apartheid South Africa and conflict with Arab states, but Boafo-Arthur and Boadi see a general trend towards improved relations between Israel and African states in the post-Cold War era. About 40 African states either reopened shuttered relations with Israel or established them for the first time, and sub-state economic ties flourished.
Another potential explanation is more specific to some of the countries in the poll. Both Kenya and Nigeria face serious threats from Islamist militant groups (al-Shabaab and Boko Haram, respectively). This might make them more sympathetic to nations, like Israel, taking aggressive military actions against what they might see as similar threats. Indeed, Kenya and Nigeria are among a small handful of countries around the world whose publics have a net-positive view of America's drone program.
Public sentiment about Israel doesn't seem to determine a country's Israel-Palestine policy
While most publics may broadly see Israel negatively, that is not always reflected in government policy. This map, which shows which countries have formal diplomatic relations with just with Israel (blue), just with Palestine (green), or both (grey), is a rough barometer for how governments approach the conflict:
Saint Tepes/Wikimedia Commons
The pattern among countries in Europe and the Pacific are particularly striking. These countries' citizens tend to be pretty critical of Israel. French people, for example, hold negative views of Israel over positive by a three-to-one margin. Yet their governments have full diplomatic relations with Israel and do not recognize Palestine as an independent country. The reasons for that are complex and have to do with views of how to adjudicate the conflict as much as with international politics, but the point is that popular views of Israel do not necessarily predict government policy on Israel-Palestine.
What did I say that isn't true? Israël is supported by the US and European countries, that's obvious when one sees the lack of action from those governments. They scream and shout about sanctions against Putin though.
The polls you posted are about what the population thinks, which is entirely different than what countries are doing. It's actually irrelevant, similar polls showed that the populations of countries that took part in the Iraq invasion were vastly against it, at least in continental Europe, yet some governments (Italy, Spain...) still decided to go. And it's one thing for the random Joe to anonymously state his opinion on Israël, it's something else for people who have interests (artists, political actors, etc.). It's the whole Dieudonné story.
Hell French PM Valls said just last week I think that being against Israël's policies is basically "veiled anti-semitism".
While we didn't singlehandedly win the war, our help while both Russia and Western Europe were on the ropes looking like
definitely shortened the war. Before we officially entered the fray we were supplying aid to both England and Russia by providing weaponry. Once we did enter the war Germany's defeat within a few years was assured. Historians agree Germany would have never been able to beat Russia no matter what (I somewhat disagree with that assessment) but a longer war would have meant the elimination of pretty much all Jews in Europe. Israel should be forever grateful and humble towards us. Russia and Britain as well but they don't seem to go out of their way to mindlessly serve Israel interests. That bytch ass' message is for Obama. I cant blame him you senators and congress men disrespecting their own president to bend over for that bytch. My question is if there was cease-fire what were israeli soldiers doing in tunnels where the one dude got captured?? or am I mistaken about where he was snatched??
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