Iguodala looks FINISHED since Lebron blocked him, Bogut gone, no size, bench shyt......

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

They had their Bird rights and a cap spike and Steph on a sweetheart deal. Money was not the issue at all. I clearly said they chose the right guy. My point is that you can't roll with the idea AND cop pleas. You pick KD over Barnes, Bogut, Ezeli and whoever else anyday. That also means there is no excuses after making said pick.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

This is true. However, the Heat had the same holes...they were starting Joel Anthony at C. They were basically playing 3 on 5 with him and flabby Bibby out there. Both Steph and KD have been called the "greatest player in the game" in the last 3 years and Draymond is a back to back DPOY runner up. And on top of that you got Klay. They actually have a better set up than those Heat did, as they were able to keep some semblance of their 73 win almost back to back champion squad together. If they lose it will be because those guys didn't play up to their status. People keep saying it's a no brainer to trade Bogut and Barnes for KD, which is true. That also means there is no excuse for them not getting it done.

That might be true but I think the way the heat were set up was better. Lebron didn't contribute like he should have. A lot of those games were close so the Mavs weren't running them out of the building. Game 3 heat won by 2. Game 4 Mavs won by 3. Game 5 Mavs won by 9. Game 6 Mavs won by 10. In game 4 the heat were up in the fourth till a run by the Mavs and Lebron scored just 8 POINTS. Those game could have been won if he showed up. Mavs weren't blowing them out like 20. Golden state have too many glaring holes, too many on the offensive and defensive side. Not a excuse but they have to fix it or it's going to be a long road ahead. Their small ball ain't astounding anymore

 

[FTBS]

That might be true but I think the way the heat were set up was better. Lebron didn't contribute like he should have. A lot of those games were close so the Mavs weren't running them out of the building. Game 3 heat won by 2. Game 4 Mavs won by 3. Game 5 Mavs won by 9. Game 6 Mavs won by 10. In game 4 the heat were up in the fourth till a run by the Mavs and Lebron scored just 8 POINTS. Those game could have been won if he showed up. Mavs weren't blowing them out like 20. Golden state have too many glaring holes, too many on the offensive and defensive side. Not a excuse but they have to fix it or it's going to be a long road ahead. Their small ball ain't astounding anymore

So you think depending on 3 guys for everything is better than having a top 4 AND quality bench pieces? Bron with Steph, Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Livingston wins that series. Why? Because the Mavs can't pack the paint knowing the top 3 (only 3) scorers on the opposing team aren't a threat from deep. So either Bron is gonna get his drives or the Splash Bros are gonna rain open 3s. Once again, the Heat had the same exact holes without a two time DPOY runner up and quality bench pieces and GOAT level shooting to pick up the slack. So they actually had more holes. That team was thrown together around the Big 3 while GSW added KD to the skeleton of a team that won 140 games and a chip in the last two years.

 

[Dr.seuss Swag]

i believe it just takes a lil time for a team to play well with an adjusted roster, samething happened when lebron first came to miami hell even when he went back to cleveland. obviously theres a good chance they won't make it to the finals this year but ill give them some time nba season just getting warmed up

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

So you think depending on 3 guys for everything is better than having a top 4 AND quality bench pieces? Bron with Steph, Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Livingston wins that series. Why? Because the Mavs can't pack the paint knowing the top 3 (only 3) scorers on the opposing team aren't a threat from deep. So either Bron is gonna get his drives or the Splash Bros are gonna rain open 3s. Once again, the Heat had the same exact holes without a two time DPOY runner up and quality bench pieces and GOAT level shooting to pick up the slack. So they actually had more holes. That team was thrown together around the Big 3 while GSW added KD to the skeleton of a team that won 140 games and a chip in the last two years.

I'm not komparing the two teams. Just saying the heat was in a better position to win if lebron showed up. Steph klay Draymond and Durant wont fix their interior D. Teams will feast inside if that's not fixed. I don't understand what part of that you are not getting lebron choked away that finals the Heat were in position to win. That has nothing to do with the Warriors per say. I was telling this other nikka who pretended like the heat lost because they didn't click and that kan happen to the Warriors. No they lost because bron didn't show up. Mavs did not beat them by 20 or 30. Stop saying 3 stars and DPOY that didn't stop them from getting beat by 20 by the lakers.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

I'm noticing a pattern here.

Golden State loses: "They have no bench, no size, there bigs suck, they don't play defense, X team is gonna destroy the inside"

Golden State wins: "KDs a bytch, they're supposed to win they have 2 MVPs, this team is so stacked man, the regular season is ruined!"

/thread

 

[Professor Emeritus]

That might be true but I think the way the heat were set up was better. Lebron didn't contribute like he should have. A lot of those games were close so the Mavs weren't running them out of the building. Game 3 heat won by 2. Game 4 Mavs won by 3. Game 5 Mavs won by 9. Game 6 Mavs won by 10. In game 4 the heat were up in the fourth till a run by the Mavs and Lebron scored just 8 POINTS. Those game could have been won if he showed up. Mavs weren't blowing them out like 20. Golden state have too many glaring holes, too many on the offensive and defensive side. Not a excuse but they have to fix it or it's going to be a long road ahead. Their small ball ain't astounding anymore

So you think depending on 3 guys for everything is better than having a top 4 AND quality bench pieces? Bron with Steph, Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Livingston wins that series. Why? Because the Mavs can't pack the paint knowing the top 3 (only 3) scorers on the opposing team aren't a threat from deep. So either Bron is gonna get his drives or the Splash Bros are gonna rain open 3s. Once again, the Heat had the same exact holes without a two time DPOY runner up and quality bench pieces and GOAT level shooting to pick up the slack. So they actually had more holes. That team was thrown together around the Big 3 while GSW added KD to the skeleton of a team that won 140 games and a chip in the last two years.

Kobestans are complete idiots on this.

It's like they forget that this Mavs team SWEPT the Lakers earlier in the playoffs, with Jason Terry easily outplaying Kobe (who turned in a worse performance than Lebron did, more ppg but quite a bit less across the board everywhere else).

Kobe: 23-3-3 on 46% shooting (23% from three) while Terry goes 20-2-4 on 59% shooting
Lebron: 17-8-8 on 48% shooting (32% from three) and played better defense

Lebron had that 8-6-7 game in Game 5, but Kobe had getting outscored by Terry 32 to 17 in the deciding Game 4 (went 1-9 for 4 points and 4 turnovers in the final 3 quarters of the game). 17-1-3 with 5 turnovers, and only make 1 shot in the final 3 quarters, in an elimination game in your prime.

Then in the WCF, the Mavs held Durant/Westbrook to a combined 39% shooting and 9 turnovers/game. The duo put up some points, but only by missing 124 shots and making 43 turnovers in just 5 games. In the OT Game 4, Durant didn't make a shot in the final 10 minutes, and Westbrook only made one shot in all of the 4th/overtime combined. In Game 5, Westbrook didn't hit a shot in the final 9 minutes, and Durant made his last shot with 3:38 left before the Mavs went on a 10-2 run to turn a 4-point deficit into a 4-point win.

That Mavs defense was legit, and could really freeze out certain players when they wanted to.

The Mavs won the Finals because they had the best zone defense in the league, with both strong individual defenders on Lebron, constant switching of defenders to give him different looks and keep him from getting comfortable, and a great rim protector. They used the zone to completely wall off the interior from him and the other Heat, he had no outside shooters to get the ball to whatsoever, and he didn't even have the strong post/shooting skills he would develop later to break that defense. Seriously, when your lineup is:

Corpse-Bibby averaging 2 points/game and doing nothing but setting screens
Joel Anthony with no offensive skills whatsover
Wade making maybe 1/2 a three a game
Bosh when his range was only out to about 18 feet
Lebron as a streaky shooter who is attracting the entire focus of the zone defense

How are you going to break the zone?

The Heat won when they began picking up outside shooters (Miller getting healthier, Battier, Ray Allen), when Bosh developed a three, and when Lebron pefected his post game and improved his three. The 2011 were not built well at all - they were three stars who all worked best driving closer to the basket than the three-point line, plus two absolute nothings on offense, and a bench that absolutely sucked.

Claiming that lineup is built better than Curry-Klay-Durant-Draymond-Zaza, with Iggy and Livingston on the bench, is ridiculous.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Kobestans are complete idiots on this.

The Mavs won the series because they had the best zone defense in the league, with both strong individual defenders on Lebron, constant switching of defenders to give him different looks and keep him from getting comfortable, and a great rim protector. They used the zone to completely wall off the interior from him and the other Cavs, he had no outside shooters to get the ball to whatsoever, and he didn't even have the strong post/shooting skills he would develop later to break that defense. Seriously, when your lineup is:

Corpse-Bibby averaging 2 points/game
Joel Anthony with no outside shot whatsover
Wade making maybe 1/2 a three a game
Bosh before he developed a three-point shot
Lebron as a streaky shooter who is attracking the entire focus of the zone defense

How are you going to break the zone?

The Heat won when they began picking up outside shooters (Miller getting healthier, Battier, Ray Allen), when Bosh developed a three, and when Lebron pefected his post game and improved his three. The 2011 were not built well at all - they were three stars who all worked best driving closer to the basket than the three-point line, plus two absolute nothings on offense, and a bench that absolutely sucked.

Claiming that lineup is built better than Curry-Klay-Durant-Draymond-Zaza, with Iggy and Livingston on the bench, is ridiculous.

Not more idiotic than you akting like those big mean from back in the day are overrated because they played a bunch of white guys that would give you that work. Wade averaged 26 that finals and had bouts of 28 to even 36 points. There were bouts where JJ Berra and Jason terry would end up on bron and he'd be too scared to do anything besides pass. 8 points for the greatest player in the world For a whole game while Wade and bosh scored more? No excuses. Those games were always close so the Mavs were never pulling away migihtly. The biggest win for them that series was 10 points. That was a choke job.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Not more idiotic than you akting like those big mean from back in the day are overrated because they played a bunch of white guys that would give you that work.

You're taking my mocking of THESE White guys as an example of idiocy?

They couldn't dribble, they couldn't shoot, they didn't run meaningful plays, they barely tried on defense, and they weren't athletic. What part of the game do you think they were better at than the average high school recruit today?

And we're talking a perennial all-star, MVP candidate, First Ballot Hall of Famer in that video. As a 6'4" forward with an ugly-ass 42% shot and health problems.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Here's another highlight video from that photo. Tom Gola, 6'6" White guy who averaged a 20-20 in college. Made 5-straight all-star squads on the power of numbers like 15-10-5 on 45% shooting of twos, put up 12-10-6 for a championship team, only Warrior to get triple-doubles in three straight games before Draymond Green. Also a Hall of Famer.


His highlight film consists of two uncontested layups, an awkward end to a drive, and an ugly-ass jumpshot.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

You're taking my mocking of THESE White guys as an example of idiocy?

How the hell would they give me work? They couldn't dribble, they couldn't shoot, they didn't run meaningful plays, they barely tried on defense, and they weren't athletic. What part of the game do you think they were better at than the average high school recruit today?

And we're talking a perennial all-star, MVP candidate, First Ballot Hall of Famer in that video. As a 6'4" forward with an ugly-ass 42% shot and health problems.

0:27 that boy would of took you to the paint. Just because they was wack by new gen standards don't mean they wouldn't kick your ass off the court. All those cacs would drop 20 on you then knock your ass out on the other end

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Here's another highlight video from that photo. Tom Gola, 6'6" White guy who averaged a 20-20 in college. Made 5-straight all-star squads on the power of numbers like 15-10-5 on 45% shooting of twos, put up 12-10-6 for a championship team, only Warrior to get triple-doubles in three straight games before Draymond Green. Also a Hall of Famer.


His highlight film consists of two uncontested layups, an awkward end to a drive, and an ugly-ass jumpshot.

You wouldn't get no rebounds over tom

 

[FTBS]

I'm not komparing the two teams. Just saying the heat was in a better position to win if lebron showed up. Steph klay Draymond and Durant wont fix their interior D. Teams will feast inside if that's not fixed. I don't understand what part of that you are not getting lebron choked away that finals the Heat were in position to win. That has nothing to do with the Warriors per say. I was telling this other nikka who pretended like the heat lost because they didn't click and that kan happen to the Warriors. No they lost because bron didn't show up. Mavs did not beat them by 20 or 30. Stop saying 3 stars and DPOY that didn't stop them from getting beat by 20 by the lakers.

I'm not comparing the two teams. Here is a comparison of the two teams .

The only reason to mention the Heat in this discussion is to compare the two teams. For whatever reason you want to ignore all the issues outside Bron that the Heat had while focusing on those same issues for the Warriors despite the fact that they are actually better prepared to deal with them (or at least should be). It's up to KD and Steph to figure shyt out and make it work just like it was up to Bron in 2011. No excuses for him then and no excuses for them now.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

0:27 that boy would of took you to the paint. Just because they was wack by new gen standards don't mean they wouldn't kick your ass off the court. All those cacs would drop 20 on you then knock your ass out on the other end

Notice how he can only use one hand? Notice how he has no moves whatsoever - no ball fakes or decent body fake, no crossover? Notice how no one is in his grill to D him, until the late reaction on every shot? Notice how his body flings around on the jump shot? Notice how slow he is? Wikipedia says his health was so bad he "wheezed and groaned" every time he ran the court or went up for a shot.




If you can't tell how weak their skill and athleticism are, you know nothing. Pro ball had only been around 20 years and no one played. It didn't touch the popularity of baseball, football, boxing, or even Olympic sports. These guys were at the development level of today's 12-year-olds playing pick-up games, only with quicker ball movement but worse ball handling.

You wouldn't get no rebounds over tom

You can't have played and watched ball your whole life and not see this. They were babes out there. They hadn't developed the skills, the didn't have the athleticism, and their talent pool was tiny as hell. None of that us even debateable.

 

[Illuminatos]

@ 60s basketball.