Misreeya
Pro
Many Languages obviously, and since the African continent has a large Muslim population. Many of them especially the religious observant ones learn to speak Arabic. Arab language in Africa and Arabia.
These are the countries where Arabic is the national language. Within Africa close to 200 million people speak Arabic as the main language.
Islam in Africa - Wikipedia
People do speak French in places like Morocco, Tunis, and Algeria, and many speak Arabic as well, it is kind of wide spread, especially in the Muslim community.
List of countries where Arabic is an official language - Wikipedia
Last edited:
It is common knowledge to French speakers that Africa has "beaucoup de pays Francophone". In any English-French textbook worth it's salt printed from 1977 onward there is usually a section dedicated to these countries with cultural and historical notes. These sections grew more detailed in the 80s and 90s. When I was in middle school this is how I first learned about the large number of French speaking African countries. Prior to that I only knew about Cameroon because of the soccer team. To that end when I used to tutor Black students in French, I would incorporate a history lesson about the French speaking country which I focused on.
"More Black people speak French than White people." If this statement is not currently accurately, it will be in a decade or less. The use of French language among the African Diaspora is increasing, not shrinking. The use of the French language as stated by more than one individual, is a double edged sword. On the one hand because of it's widespread use among Black people, it is an ideal tool for communication. On the other hand, it is precisely because so many Black people speak French that it is so useful, so Black people are in essence giving strength to a language that would not have the same influence without their use of it.
It is vital that African countries revitalize African languages as main methods of intra-continental communication. There is too much autonomy to be gained by doing so, not to. However the scope of French speakers in the African Diaspora cannot be ignored. At least twenty African countries have French as a focal language, in addition to the Afro-French, Black Canadians, and Haitians. No African language is able to connect all of those Black groups globally. Black entrepreneurs producing media in the French language have a massive audience to work with and potentially benefit from. This directly relates to the double edged sword, because it also means non-Black French speakers can use the pays Francophone to their advantage as well. Considering this, the potential upside of so many people speaking the language is worth it.
One of the under appreciated benefits of speaking French is the ability to read historical documents that have never been translated into English or any non-French language for that matter. African colleges & universities in pays Francophone often have a wealth of historical information that is only printed in French. Polyglots traveling to these countries can benefit immensely from taking a detour to these institutions and chatting up the professors. If the resources were accumulated, it would be possible to create a very comprehensive Encyclopedic history of these African countries.
While a highly motivated individual will learn any language, less motivated individuals will stick with what is familiar. In that regard, when it comes to learning languages, Africans tend to have an advantage over Afro American/Brazilian/Caribbean folk. Those who exclusively speak English and Romance languages usually lean towards other English and Romance languages when it comes to learning new language. This is in part due to utility of these languages, but also due to ease. Africans tend to be more open minded when it comes to learning new languages. Polyglots in general show more interest and ease in learning new language.
Media is such an important tool in spreading language. I used to date a woman from Tanzania who babysat for her sister. She would play a recordings with Kilimani Sesame, which is Tanzania's Swahili language version of Sesame Street subtitled in English. While I cannot claim to speak Swahili, I learned a lot of words and phrases from watching Kilimani Sesame in a very short amount of time. The simplistic language used to teach concepts to children, and the paced cadence of the muppet characters made it very easy to pick things up. It is a pity that it isn't available on dvd because it was a lot easier than using a traditional language learning dvds and audio. African language educational media doubles as both an educational tool, and a way to re-assert African language.
videogamestashbox.com mentioned that language is a decisive factor in epistemology. In Swahili for example, honorifics when addressing older men and women are the norm, like referring to an elderly woman as "bibi". This is a reflection of traditional African cultural respect for ones elders. These are not typical in standard English, or French spoken in France. However Haitian creole, as well as French from Cote D'Ivoire does feature a more prevalent use of honorics. KidStrangehold discusses in another topic how Aframs have made a greater impact on America culturally than the reverse. Likewise Black people who speak French adapt the language to suit their needs. I have noticed primarily French Europeans, non-Black and Black alike, consistently make an effort to belittle Haitian creole. The fact that Haitians can understand standard French, but the French cannot understand Haitian creole is an autonomy that does not sit well with everyone.
While the French language does connect members of the African Diaspora to one another, at this point, it ultimately leads to France, not Africa. The strong connections to African culture in places like Louisiana and Haiti, and pride of culture in places like Cote D'Ivoire, Senegal, Sierra Leone, et cetera are very much in spite of speaking French language, rather than a benefit of it. Even though Africa contains a huge number of English speakers, English does not inherently connect one to Africa. The same is true of French. That said, based on sheer numbers it is understandable that French is described as a Black language even though it is misleading.
Regardless of the implications of colonialism, the fact is that French is a language that connects over one hundred million Black people. Speaking French is definitely benefit, and will be more beneficial as the economies of Black French speaking countries increase. It is something that Black people are in a position to take advantage of, even more so than the French.
"More Black people speak French than White people." If this statement is not currently accurately, it will be in a decade or less. The use of French language among the African Diaspora is increasing, not shrinking. The use of the French language as stated by more than one individual, is a double edged sword. On the one hand because of it's widespread use among Black people, it is an ideal tool for communication. On the other hand, it is precisely because so many Black people speak French that it is so useful, so Black people are in essence giving strength to a language that would not have the same influence without their use of it.
It is vital that African countries revitalize African languages as main methods of intra-continental communication. There is too much autonomy to be gained by doing so, not to. However the scope of French speakers in the African Diaspora cannot be ignored. At least twenty African countries have French as a focal language, in addition to the Afro-French, Black Canadians, and Haitians. No African language is able to connect all of those Black groups globally. Black entrepreneurs producing media in the French language have a massive audience to work with and potentially benefit from. This directly relates to the double edged sword, because it also means non-Black French speakers can use the pays Francophone to their advantage as well. Considering this, the potential upside of so many people speaking the language is worth it.
One of the under appreciated benefits of speaking French is the ability to read historical documents that have never been translated into English or any non-French language for that matter. African colleges & universities in pays Francophone often have a wealth of historical information that is only printed in French. Polyglots traveling to these countries can benefit immensely from taking a detour to these institutions and chatting up the professors. If the resources were accumulated, it would be possible to create a very comprehensive Encyclopedic history of these African countries.
While a highly motivated individual will learn any language, less motivated individuals will stick with what is familiar. In that regard, when it comes to learning languages, Africans tend to have an advantage over Afro American/Brazilian/Caribbean folk. Those who exclusively speak English and Romance languages usually lean towards other English and Romance languages when it comes to learning new language. This is in part due to utility of these languages, but also due to ease. Africans tend to be more open minded when it comes to learning new languages. Polyglots in general show more interest and ease in learning new language.
Media is such an important tool in spreading language. I used to date a woman from Tanzania who babysat for her sister. She would play a recordings with Kilimani Sesame, which is Tanzania's Swahili language version of Sesame Street subtitled in English. While I cannot claim to speak Swahili, I learned a lot of words and phrases from watching Kilimani Sesame in a very short amount of time. The simplistic language used to teach concepts to children, and the paced cadence of the muppet characters made it very easy to pick things up. It is a pity that it isn't available on dvd because it was a lot easier than using a traditional language learning dvds and audio. African language educational media doubles as both an educational tool, and a way to re-assert African language.
videogamestashbox.com mentioned that language is a decisive factor in epistemology. In Swahili for example, honorifics when addressing older men and women are the norm, like referring to an elderly woman as "bibi". This is a reflection of traditional African cultural respect for ones elders. These are not typical in standard English, or French spoken in France. However Haitian creole, as well as French from Cote D'Ivoire does feature a more prevalent use of honorics. KidStrangehold discusses in another topic how Aframs have made a greater impact on America culturally than the reverse. Likewise Black people who speak French adapt the language to suit their needs. I have noticed primarily French Europeans, non-Black and Black alike, consistently make an effort to belittle Haitian creole. The fact that Haitians can understand standard French, but the French cannot understand Haitian creole is an autonomy that does not sit well with everyone.
While the French language does connect members of the African Diaspora to one another, at this point, it ultimately leads to France, not Africa. The strong connections to African culture in places like Louisiana and Haiti, and pride of culture in places like Cote D'Ivoire, Senegal, Sierra Leone, et cetera are very much in spite of speaking French language, rather than a benefit of it. Even though Africa contains a huge number of English speakers, English does not inherently connect one to Africa. The same is true of French. That said, based on sheer numbers it is understandable that French is described as a Black language even though it is misleading.
Regardless of the implications of colonialism, the fact is that French is a language that connects over one hundred million Black people. Speaking French is definitely benefit, and will be more beneficial as the economies of Black French speaking countries increase. It is something that Black people are in a position to take advantage of, even more so than the French.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
Repped. Very interesting you talk about about media destined to children in swahili because I read some articles about this movement. Even here in France (as in Belgium, but to a lesser degree) there are more and more people realizing the importance of learning their languages to the kids, and setting up initiatives in that sense. Kery James (one of the best rappers in France) has a very militant track ("Musique Negres") in which he raps a part in Guadeloupe creole and Youssoufa (featured on the track) raps in lingala. Youssoufa has actually done various tracks in the language, and one can go back and think about Bisso na Bisso. So people are conscious of this.
Also the point about belittling creole : the thing is that french (as opposed to english, or even italian or dutch) is a very "centralized" language. Standard French is Parisian French, meaning the rest of the world has an accent, but not Parisians (which is ridiculous). How French became the language of France is a highly political and centralized thing, so to this day a French will make fun of a Belgian, and both will make fun of the Québecois. I think it's less important with english, because the country of origin of that language (England) has taken a backseat culturally to the "little brother", the US. Such a thing hasn't happened yet in the francophone world. Hell even francophone africans make fun of OTHER francophone africans depending on their accent, the words they use, etc. French is a very "hierarchical" language, used to be that how you spoke the language was a direct give-away to your social position, and where you came from. When discussing french, we always have to keep in mind that it was imposed (sometimes brutally)...in France. I guess a lot of that remains to this day.
And you are still mad
Menelik II
I wanna see receipts!
Unless the children are going to leave the Americas then no. Spanish is the quickest growing language in the Americas .
It is interesting that the French try to belittle the Belgians for their French, considering the great lengths that the French speaking Belgian aristocracy took to preserve French language and culture in Belgium. You are correct in the correlation that language has to social status. This is true even in English, although this arguable is more a reflection of dialect and vocabulary than a regional accent. It is very telling that despite French being the official language of 29 countries, the French are so insecure about that. Perhaps it is simply French pride, but there is something to be said about the fact that Haiti did win it's independence in very bloody unapologetic manner.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
In the past few weeks I've been to various litterary events linked to Africa here in Paris (with the likes of Alain Mabanckou, Emmanuel Dongala, Abderahmane Waberi -writers who are all teachers in the US-, Felwinne Sarr, Achille Mbembe -among the leading thinkers in Africa according to me-) and the general consensus is that yes indeed, French is very much an African language, in the sense that it is a historical reality it would be counterproductive to try to deny, that french has evolved in Africa due to Africans themselves speaking it (much like Québec french has evolved "internally" once it was imported to that region). As most of them pointed out (especially the writers), in francophone litterature more often than not you "hear" the local accent/way of speaking even if it's writing in french, which obviously is not the same as in Paris. Kourouma's writing was quite famous for this. It's not much to say that neither, I just read Amos Tutuola's "In the Bush of Ghosts" and obviously it sounds different than a book that would have been writen/set in NY.
Also the point Felwinne Sarr and Achille Mbembé were making is that in the struggle to organize Africa according to what Africans want, language is power (as it is everywhere, but most people don't realize it), so while it is indeed absolutely crucial to promote teaching in local african languages it would be shooting ourselves in the foot to willingly abandon a language that is not only already part of african reality (and in which much african works -litterature, philosophy, etc- has been done), but also a language spoken by a couple hundred million people worlwide. It's not a zero-sum game.
Also the point Felwinne Sarr and Achille Mbembé were making is that in the struggle to organize Africa according to what Africans want, language is power (as it is everywhere, but most people don't realize it), so while it is indeed absolutely crucial to promote teaching in local african languages it would be shooting ourselves in the foot to willingly abandon a language that is not only already part of african reality (and in which much african works -litterature, philosophy, etc- has been done), but also a language spoken by a couple hundred million people worlwide. It's not a zero-sum game.
Bump
Since moving to the DC area, I’ve met many French speakers, all but one who are black
I myself am still learning Spanish but I want to start with French as well.
I want reiterate that the point of this thread is not that french should replace any indigenous language (if you’re reading that from my posts then you’re projecting). English, French and Swahili are essentially global black lingua franca
Since moving to the DC area, I’ve met many French speakers, all but one who are black
I myself am still learning Spanish but I want to start with French as well.
I want reiterate that the point of this thread is not that french should replace any indigenous language (if you’re reading that from my posts then you’re projecting). English, French and Swahili are essentially global black lingua franca
The Singularity
Pro
I prefer my mother tongue and Swahili.
What your mother tongue ?I prefer my mother tongue and Swahili.