At some point won't African immigrants just become AA?

[IllmaticDelta]

WAYment, So wouldn't that technically make us Haitians and Jamaicans AA since we're descendants of the trans-Atlantic slave trade also?





I had a brainfart and didn't even think about that before....



ALOT of Blacks in NO and the state Louisiana have Haitian heritage....



There's also the Gullah people of SC who still have held on to African heritage..

There's so many sub-groups of AA's in the US and sub-cultures who have held on to Lineage...What does that make them?

This is tricky....

simply put

An ethnic AfroAmerican defined

Origins of African-American Ethnicity or African-American Ethnic Traits


The newly formed Black Yankee ethnicity of the early 1800s differed from today’s African-American ethnicity. Modern African-American ethnic traits come from a post-bellum blending of three cultural streams: the Black Yankee ethnicity of 1830, the slave traditions of the antebellum South, and the free Creole or Mulatto elite traditions of the lower South. Each of the three sources provided elements of the religious, linguistic, and folkloric traditions found in today’s African-American ethnicity.30


Essays on the U.S. Color Line » Blog Archive » The Color Line Created African-American Ethnicity in the North

If you don't fit that criteria, you aren't an ethnic AfroAmerican.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Devils advocate:



Is black Jamaican an ethnic group

yes...

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Which why I don't understand why y'all use the term "African-American", when "Black American" makes more sense, according to this logic.

"african-american" is a ancestral acknowledgment while "black american" is a racial one

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Being American is a nationality. Being African American is an ethnicity. Like Afro Brazilian, Afro Latino, Afro Cuban etc. nobody is trying to distance themselves from Africa by acknowledging their own unique culture/ethnicity.

bingo

 

[Afro]

This post is beyond ridiculous that I shouldnt even respond but I will.


Okay and?



Lol... No. American census is RACIALIZED!

Thats the SAME census that has freaking Arabs and North Africans are grouped with whites. And why Indians who are South Asians are grouped in with Chinese people who are East Asian.

And on the census it clearly states "Black American or other black."




No is mad because this post is again ridiculous. You like the Coli CONTINUE to confuse confuse ethnicity with race that its like I'm speaking to a pre-schooler. African-Americans are ethnicity NOT a race... Thats like a bunch of AAs immigrating to Brazil and claiming they are now ethnic Afro-Brazilians. Or AAs migrating to Somalia and claiming they are ethnic Somalis. Neither cases would be true. And for Somalia, Bantus are their OWN ethnic group. Why is none of this true? Because none of the brought up groups share the same cultural history. However, they are all "black."

Pan Africanism is an a delusion. I am glad I got out of my whole wanting to be African phase. Only thing I want from Africa is reparations. And the only Black people I can see myself getting with is Afro-Latinos...just so can we push for reparations.

African immigrants are coming over here and they ain't coming over to be friends with us...and they ain't coming over here and letting us go get land and oil from Nigeria or Ghana...

They coming over here and taking our spot. We should've learned from West Indians but we didn't. Now we have a second wave of African descendant people coming over here and I am glad that we starting to look at them like... instead of being on some "Brother! Sister!" shyt...

We gonna have to kill this stupid pipe dream of wanting to be African and inclusive...

We are descendants of slaves, we made our life here, we fought here and we gonna die here.

And I don't care if is White person, an African, an Asian or a Latino...we are the True Americans. We have a more of a right to this country than anybody. Even Native Americans. I don't give a fukk about them either. They had slaves, fukk 'em.

We need to stop being soft and they start asserting ourselves as the founders and creators of the USA. Crackers stole it from us, they didn't build this shyt.

West Indians came here and got houses and shyt while we couldn't because they weren't like us.

West Indians are the perfect example of how being non-AA is an advantage and how Black immigrants come over here where at back home they are majority and practice ethnic inclusivity while we try to be all open arms with them due our race based thinking.

Just read this paper...
http://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2465&context=faculty_publications


Why are the black brownstone owners in Harlem and Brooklyn disproportionately West Indian? The landlords, West Indian-American? The tenants African-American? These are tough questions. For students of housing discrimination, West Indian Americans have long presented a quandary. If it is reasonable to assume that racial exclusions are being consistently applied to persons who are dark-skinned, one would expect to find that housing discrimination has had similar effects on West Indian Americans and African-Americans. Yet this is not the case: West Indian Americans generally own and rent higher quality housing than African Americans.

Eschewing more traditional explanations in the civil rights literature, I apply the literature in which racial segregation in real property ownership is conceived as a racial monopoly in which racial cartels appropriate anticompetitive techniques to monopolize access to real property. Maintaining a racial cartel is dependent on white owners maintaining a united front, that is, they must uniformly refuse to sell. Importantly, realtors play a gatekeeping role in real estate and West Indians dominated the realtor sector. As realtors, they were expert at finding defectors, namely, whites willing to break norms of racial exclusivity, in exchange for their ability to extract a premium for selling to blacks early. Brokers then proceeded to buy significant numbers of titles, which were then off-loaded to fellow West Indians. West Indian brokers could act in confidence because they had cashrich clients and were often buying in trust (de-facto if not de-jure) for fellow West Indians. In so doing, West Indian brokers in New York were simply replicating techniques that had been utilized by their land-brokering ancestors. I discuss the history that “previews” this period in New York, albeit in a different context: in the British West Indian islands from the migrants originated. There are repeated instances of blacks "busting" white monopolies in landownership, throughout the West Indian colonies in contravention of racial norms in the British colonies of who was allowed to own land where. Upon arrival in New York, West Indians encountered another racial monopoly in real property ownership, namely Northern racial segregation. They essentially appropriated the same techniques that they had utilized in the West Indies to break into white neighbourhoods in New York.

I need to research more.

I read every line, yall are the shyt.

 

[DrBanneker]

So if someone simply "acts" Jamaican or "dresses" Nigerian does that make them so?

I'm just curious if some of yall keep these simple standards for other cultures the way yall do for AA's.

I'm not claiming some dude can get off the plane from Nigeria and claim AA. Anyway though, Jamaica and Nigeria are countries. That's why mad Chinese and Lebanese can legitimately claim to be Jamaican or Nigerian, accent and all. They aren't Black but Jamaican and Nigerian are nationalities.

If a kid from the US went to Nigeria at a young age or was born there and grew up primarily there, yeah they could probably claim Nigerian though some local people could hate. Now they may have a weird position culturally since they aren't part of any group like Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, etc. but they could feasibly claim being Nigerian. Again though, arguments about being AA aside, the whole comment was in how they act day to day they aren't that distinguishable from us. If they grew up around Blacks, that is typically true.

I am not trying to claim every Black person here as AA nor should we. I am just trying to say we are not an ethnic group like those in Africa or whatever. We have a slave background and history and the US but we were also made up of multiple waves of migration of a whole lot of Western and some Central Africans during the slave trade. Because we aren't tied to a specific African ethnic group, language, or tight geographic area it is feasible that the AA population could one day in the future absorb the children and grandchildren of Black immigrants. Whether that should happen is something we can debate all day but it has happened before in many cultures, not just our own.

Tbh though, an approximation to this is why the Chinese exist the way they do. Unlike the Koreans or Japanese, Chinese typically don't have this tight idea of racial purity. Northern Chinese are taller and have ancestry from Mongols and other northern groups that invaded China. Southern Chinese are shorter and share a lot of ancestry with Chinese that fled South in ancient times during invasions from the North. China survived despite invasions or conquering others since once you spoke a Chinese dialect and imitated the culture, you pretty much got a pass. Time changes a lot. I would love to see this argument on the Coli on its 50th anniversary.

 

[bouncy]

There are Louisiana blacks who are literally descendants of Haitian people. Kreyol-speaking French-speaking Haitians. It was worth a shot...

You can say that about Bahamians having some African American descendants, but both situations was so long ago, I don't think people even think about that, except for historians.

One thing I can say is, I'm happy we have the internet, and we can discuss this stuff in anonymity. This way we can see how everyone feels, and how we should deal with each other accordingly. As black americans, I think it helped us not be so welcoming. I'm talking about those of us who want unity, and the best for all black people. I guess our distant relatives don't feel the same, at least the ones who come here, those tend to be different from the ones who stay.

Hey, it was a good dream back in the day

 

[bouncy]

I think the funniest thing about threads such as these are that its only part of a delusion that some lonely sad black person makes when he sucks at life lol. My life sucks so why not attack and blame others LMAO.

The reality is the Pan - African movement is as strong as its ever been, and the majority of AA's aren't "waking up" to the "realities" of Africans.

Some of ya'll are hurt in real life and just want something to talk about, while passing bigotry. How does it feel knowing when you log off the PC, that the whole world is moving the opposite way from your fantasies LMAO.

What's funny is, I see that not being big with AA like it used to be(the black power types). I noticed once more black foreigners started coming here, the more that thought died down. Now, I hear more about AA building up here, and being proud of being from here, and Africa. It's a big difference from the 80's, and early 90's, it was all about Africa back then. Now, its about the history of Africa, that's it!

I think the internet, and people seeing how a lot feel about us, changed all of that. Its' kind of the same for West Indians, and latins, but its not as extreme(west indians), its getting there, though. I remember when people would post how Jamaicans created hip hop, and people would agree. NOW, you will have tons of people arguing you down, then people start dissing each other. The internet has really changed a lot of things!

 

[BigMan]

yes...

Now Is Jamaican an ethnic group

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Now Is Jamaican an ethnic group

in Jamaica, it's a nationality with sub-groups (afro-jamaican, chinese-jamaican, indo-jamaican etc..) while in the USA, it functions as an ethnic group mainly for afro-jamaicans.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

WAYment, So wouldn't that technically make us Haitians and Jamaicans AA since we're descendants of the trans-Atlantic slave trade also?

all new world blacks are technically "african american" in the purest sense but we know the USA is the default, "America", hence, ethnic AfroAmericans on USA Soil while the rest of yall Atlantic Slave Trade descendants are Afro-Caribs/West Indians/Latin Americans/South Americans.

 

[Black Haven]

I am just trying to say we are not an ethnic group like those in Africa or whatever.

I disagree with this statement. We have been isolated for so long in america outside other African descent groups, that geneticist recognize us as our own ethnicity. I recently did a genetic break down of my DNA to try and see what ethnicities or populations in the world I mostly genetically relate to and this is what I got.# Population (source) Distance
1 African_American 8.26
2 Kikuyu 10.14
3 N.E_Bantu 11.14
4 Gambian 16.54
5 Mandinka 16.95
6 Mende 18.38
7 Esan 19.21
8 Yoruba 19.45
9 Maasai 23.97
10 Somali 47.03
11 Ethiopian 58.37
12 Algerian 88.15
13 Moroccan 88.31
14 Tunisian 88.62
15 Yemeni 91.15
16 Egyptian 97.01
17 Jordanian 100.11
18 Syrian 100.12
19 Uzbek 101.01
20 Nogai 102.01

 

[IllmaticDelta]

But what if you're grandmother is AA but lived in Africa and you moved back to America and your dad is white?

As long as you have ethnic afro american blood and a continuous, afram linked culture/identity, you're afram no matter where you live/and or admixed with

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This we know. But I think there's a confusion between how you got to the Americas (abduction) and your siuation once you got there (slavery) on one side, and your ethnicity on the other. The ethnicity didn't change due those external factors, you were still the same people coming over from Africa. And the same ethnicity of those immigrating now.

What changed imo is that you created a specific culture in the new environment and under these specific circumstances. So ethnicity is the same, but culture is different.

Unless we consider all the mixing with Indians, whites, etc...that happened over years. In that case I better understand the use of "African American" and the differences with Africans who are not descendants of slaves, because they do not have the mixing implied with "America"?

Question : would you say Busta Rhymes is an African-American?

"AfroAmericans" the ethnicity on an Africal level is mixed to a degree that they became distinct from their african ancestors who were more on singular tribe/nation level




....so if I applied this same reasoning to music...we could take something like the Blues, which is pred Senegambian/Sahelian/Upper West African/Griot Africa in nature but the slide guitar aspect is more Bantu influenced via the Diddley Bow which is related to Bantu Mouth Bow

B.E: You have a fascinating map of blues sources in Africa on page 101 of your book. Can you describe it?



G.K: This map was designed to give readers an idea of the areas in Africa from which the rural blues’ most characteristic traits had come, including some less prominent areas, all part of a belt from Dakar in the west to the Nile River in southern Sudan in the east. By comparison, I was showing from which areas the knowledge of the asymmetric time-line patterns was exported to New World destinations, mainly from the Guinea coast—Congo, Angola, and the Zambezi Valley. Next, I was showing the areas within the west-central African Raffia zone were mono-ideochord zithers are played. These were relevant for the development of “jitterbug,” “diddly bow,” “unitar” and similar one string devices in the US. Finally, I was outlining the areas in South West and South East Africa where mouth bows are played with the stage directed toward the players lips, just like the tradition of the Appalachian Mountains.

 

[UberEatsDriver]

What's funny is, I see that not being big with AA like it used to be(the black power types). I noticed once more black foreigners started coming here, the more that thought died down. Now, I hear more about AA building up here, and being proud of being from here, and Africa. It's a big difference from the 80's, and early 90's, it was all about Africa back then. Now, its about the history of Africa, that's it!

I think the internet, and people seeing how a lot feel about us, changed all of that. Its' kind of the same for West Indians, and latins, but its not as extreme(west indians), its getting there, though. I remember when people would post how Jamaicans created hip hop, and people would agree. NOW, you will have tons of people arguing you down, then people start dissing each other. The internet has really changed a lot of things!

As a Haitian-American I disagree. I saw more divide and hate from other black groups than I do now. That might be your experience but my experience being raised in NYC which has the most diverse black diaspora says otherwise.