You ever thought about how fukked up it is that life propagates itself by consuming other life?

Dusty Bake Activate

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That’s something I think that’s hard to square with an all benevolent creator or force of any sort.

You don’t even have to talk about us as humans. How fukked up is it that the natural world consists of organisms in a neverending cycle of killing and consuming other organisms for their resources?

Animals kill each other in the most brutal of ways conceivable too. Those nature shows on the Discovery Channel and PBS used to sanitize how horrific nature can be. They’ll show an animal make the kill, but they don’t show the gory torturous details of animals being slowly torn apart and eaten alive with limbs hanging off by tendons and bones sticking out.

And every living form you see in the world including us is a current end product of that predation-consumption-adaptation cycle.

For billions of years there was no life. Then there was just the first prokaryotic bacteria for billions of more years. And it seems at some point one single-celled eukaryotic organism came to the realization that it could consume another bacterium, consuming its resources to increase its survivability, killing it in the process. I’m not religious or “spiritual” like that, but if life on Earth is a mythical story, that would seem like the moment the devil caused original sin, or at least one of the seminal moment’s in the history of the world—sort of like when the protohuman learned to used a bone as a took in the beginning of 2001: A Space Oddyssey.

It’s kinda crazy that the driving force of life is in many ways the taking of other life.

Just my thoughts. :mjcry:
 
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Dusty Bake Activate

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you want to go back to being pond scum? those bacteria you talk about dont have any "realization". they are just chemical reactions. it's peaceful. :ehh:
A bacteria certainly doesn’t have free will, but I wouldn’t call that peaceful. Eating and killing another organism to consume its resources is an act of violence even its just a response to chemical cues.

It’s interesting and kind of creepy to think about how predation first started. According to the fossil record, bacteria existed for billions years before they started eating one another.

Similar thing with insects. They existed for billions of years living off vegetation. Then at some point—perhaps due to some extreme environmental conditions, maybe due to some extinction level event like asteroid crash—some insect tried biting an animal and liked it so they evolved a taste for blood. Now you have all types of demonic little armored invertebrate creatures crawling around with weaponry killing and eating.
 

blotter

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Nothing spontaneously exists on its own. You might be interested in reading about dependent origination which is a buddhist perspective

we can clearly look at plants and see they valued and wanted to attract certain animals and used them to do what they couldn't. Probably exactly as many examples of positive symbiotic relationships as adversarial.

There are all types of battles between bacteria going on within us and if that wasn't happening we wouldn't be healthy. So should be sad for the bacteria or happy for our health?
 

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A bacteria certainly doesn’t have free will, but I wouldn’t call that peaceful. Eating and killing another organism to consume its resources is an act of violence even its just a response to chemical cues.

It’s interesting and kind of creepy to think about how predation first started. According to the fossil record, bacteria existed for billions years before they started eating one another.

Similar thing with insects. They existed for billions of years living off vegetation. Then at some point—perhaps due to some extreme environmental conditions, maybe due to some extinction level event like asteroid crash—some insect tried biting an animal and liked it so they evolved a taste for blood. Now you have all types of demonic little armored invertebrate creatures crawling around with weaponry killing and eating.
without sentience, violence loses its most nefarious meaning, like a river making a canyon through erosion, or aborting a zygote. matter and energy transferring this way is pretty much like a neutral dealer shuffling cards and dealing them out several times...

insects are a little more evil, like a 1.0 on the evil scale
 

GnauzBookOfRhymes

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That’s something I think that’s hard to square with an all benevolent creator or force of any sort.

You don’t even have to talk about us as humans. How fukked up is it that the natural world consists of organisms in a neverending cycle of killing and consuming other organisms for their resources?

Animals kill each other in the most brutal of ways conceivable too. Those nature shows on the Discovery Channel and PBS used to sanitize how horrific nature can be. They’ll show an animal make the kill, but they don’t show the gory torturous details of animals being slowly torn apart and eaten alive with limbs hanging off by tendons and bones sticking out.

And every living form you see in the world including us is a current end product of that predation-consumption-adaptation cycle.

For billions of years there was no life. Then there was just the first prokaryotic bacteria for billions of more years. And it seems at some point one single-celled eukaryotic organism came to the realization that it could consume another bacterium, consuming its resources to increase its survivability, killing it in the process. I’m not religious or “spiritual” like that, but if life on Earth is a mythical story, that would seem like the moment the devil caused original sin, or at least one of the seminal moment’s in the history of the world—sort of like when the protohuman learned to used a bone as a took in the beginning of 2001: A Space Oddyssey.

It’s kinda crazy that the driving force of life is in many ways the taking of other life.

Just my thoughts. :mjcry:

organisms die every day b :yeshrug:
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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without sentience, violence loses its most nefarious meaning, like a river making a canyon through erosion, or aborting a zygote. matter and energy transferring this way is pretty much like a neutral dealer shuffling cards and dealing them out several times...

insects are a little more evil, like a 1.0 on the evil scale
Well the question of sentience and how it relates to treatment of life has always been a bit murky.

How do you define sentience and to what degree? Does a cockroach have sentience? Very limited if any. So 99% of people have no qualms about squashing or spraying a roach.

Does a dog or cat have sentience? Any pet owner will tell you yes. So generally speaking nobody would squash a cat or dog with a blunt object just for annoying them unless they are some kind of psychopath.
 

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Well the question of sentience and how it relates to treatment of life has always been a bit murky.

How do you define sentience and to what degree? Does a cockroach have sentience? Very limited if any. So 99% of people have no qualms about squashing or spraying a roach.

Does a dog or cat have sentience? Any pet owner will tell you yes. So generally speaking nobody would squash a cat or dog with a blunt object just for annoying them unless they are some kind of psychopath.
roach has a little bit, that's why i would say bugs are slightly evil. they kinda know they exist and that other things exist and they might know what they want. they probably dont have much understanding of suffering, though, so they are hard to really hold accountable, like being not guilty by reason of insanity, LOL.

cats and dogs are a lot higher on the scale. they feel pain and sadness, so there is a chance they can understand that other creatures can react the same way. that's why i always talk bad about pit bulls in those dogset vs catset threads :russ:
 
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