TONY KHAN STINKS! ("WBD OWNS A PERCENTAGE OF AEW." - DAVE MELTZER; DYNAMITE CONTINUES LOSING TO NXT; DYNAMITE NO MILLION WATCH: 631 DAYS/90 WEEKS)

[Silkk]

lol every 3 pages this thread circles back to the growth conversation and I have no idea why


These dudes clearly aren’t going to grow anymore. That lil growth period for the new upstart is finished. Done. Finito. They are who they are, and that’s what’s it’s gonna be from here on out. We can all accept that and just enjoy the ride mane

All these “what they need to do to grow!” posts be pointless lol

They’ve only been around 4 years. We saw TNA and WCW grow after that.


And TK has “way more fukking money” than both. There’s definitely room to grow.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

They’ve only been around 4 years. We saw TNA and WCW grow after that.


And TK has “way more fukking money” than both. There’s definitely room to grow.

TK's issue is he wont get out his own way. Also him and the EVPS care more about "wrestling" and 5star matches more than telling a good story. When match ratings are your focus and not trying to entice an audience with writing/storylines/characters then that screws how much you can grow*

* I havent watched in like a year since they fukked Hobbes with the QT marshall shyt with the TV title. Maybe they changed for the better since then

 

[Novembruh]

They’ve only been around 4 years. We saw TNA and WCW grow after that.


And TK has “way more fukking money” than both. There’s definitely room to grow.

there is. but it'll require a different course they they are on. They've seemingly exhausted the growth for their current product direction. They aren't just stagnating doing what they've been doing - they're regressing. They can't keep doing the same thing and expecting to grow is all... but they seem intent on doing just that.

 

[Larry]

They’ve only been around 4 years. We saw TNA and WCW grow after that.


And TK has “way more fukking money” than both. There’s definitely room to grow.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think growth is impossible. Not what I'm saying at all. I just have zero faith in AEW actually doing it at this stage.

Tony’s not gonna suddenly wake up one day and change his entire outlook. He is who he is. His product is always going to appeal to what appealed to him. Expecting him to change course at this point is like WWE fans who expected Vince McMahon to suddenly "see the light" and abandon his way. Ya'll wishing upon a star right now lol


it took Vince literally getting removed for WWE to get it together. it wasn't gonna happen under Vinsanity, same way its not gonna happen under Tony. He's going to book a show geared toward hardcores and that's just what its going to be. We might as well get on board, or watch something else at this point.

 

[Silkk]

You all make good points.

I personally think dude has way too much on his plate for the show to ever go back to being consistently good-great. He books most weeks like he’s just trying to make it through the week.

Trying to book 4 shows a week along with his NFL & MLS duties is retarded. Dude needs to cut two or give up the book and gtf out the way.

 

[Larry]

You all make good points.

I personally think dude has way too much on his plate for the show to ever go back to being consistently good-great. He books most weeks like he’s just trying to make it through the week.

Trying to book 4 shows a week along with his NFL & MLS duties is retarded. Dude needs to cut two or give up the book and gtf out the way.

I think another thing we have to admit is that a lot of the concepts that would help "grow" AEW go directly against what the AEW fanbase even wants to see, and a lot of that would require AEW to be more like WWE, which is kinda counterproductive.


For instance, WWE beats us over the head with recap package after recap package. We hate it.. thing is, that's not there for us. its there for the (possible) first time viewer, and the person who may watch in and out but might not necessarily follow the product religiously on a weekly basis like we do. Even if that only grabs the attention of a couple hundred thousand, its still effective to somebody. Just not us. Either way, AEW fans don't wanna see that.


and then there's less wrestling and more soap opera type storytelling. at this point thats the proven formula. the soap style storytelling is what hooks people and leaves them awaiting the payoff. The most watched moments in wrestling over the last 5 years weren't even matches, it was some Tribal court shyt with the bloodline, and Jey/Roman confrontation on Smackdown... but again, AEW fans don't want that. Those people love bragging about how this 2 hour show had nearly an hour and a half of wrestling while Smackdown and RAW only had about 40 minutes in comparison. They don't want less wrestling. They champion the fact that their show had more of it.


I can go on and on. A lot of the steps to become more "mainstream" and grow would take alienating the fanbase they already have, and that itself could be a disaster. So I think AEW is probably better off continuing to be the alternative, even if that means they'll be the stagnant number 2. Especially if trying to be number 1 risks losing the fanbase you already have by trying to be something else.

 

[PharaohAtem]

You all make good points.

I personally think dude has way too much on his plate for the show to ever go back to being consistently good-great. He books most weeks like he’s just trying to make it through the week.

Trying to book 4 shows a week along with his NFL & MLS duties is retarded. Dude needs to cut two or give up the book and gtf out the way.

I booked the same way when I was getting whooped in SVR 07 GM Mode

 

[Finn Baller]

I think another thing we have to admit is that a lot of the concepts that would help "grow" AEW go directly against what the AEW fanbase even wants to see, and a lot of that would require AEW to be more like WWE, which is kinda counterproductive.


For instance, WWE beats us over the head with recap package after recap package. We hate it.. thing is, that's not there for us. its there for the (possible) first time viewer, and the person who may watch in and out but might not necessarily follow the product religiously on a weekly basis like we do. Even if that only grabs the attention of a couple hundred thousand, its still effective to somebody. Just not us. Either way, AEW fans don't wanna see that.


and then there's less wrestling and more soap opera type storytelling. at this point thats the proven formula. the soap style storytelling is what hooks people and leaves them awaiting the payoff. The most watched moments in wrestling over the last 5 years weren't even matches, it was some Tribal court shyt with the bloodline, and Jey/Roman confrontation on Smackdown... but again, AEW fans don't want that. Those people love bragging about how this 2 hour show had nearly an hour and a half of wrestling while Smackdown and RAW only had about 40 minutes in comparison. They don't want less wrestling. They champion the fact that their show had more of it.


I can go on and on. A lot of the steps to become more "mainstream" and grow would take alienating the fanbase they already have, and that itself could be a disaster. So I think AEW is probably better off continuing to be the alternative, even if that means they'll be the stagnant number 2. Especially if trying to be number 1 risks losing the fanbase you already have by trying to be something else.

the thing is there are storyline beats on Rampage and Collision that occasionally lead to matches on Dynamite but we never see recaps of it so matches on Dynamite seem more random than they actually are, they just don't explain it

Lets also be real that the majority of the AEW fanbase is made up of people who think they are cool because they dislike the mainstream company in the industry. Those people would go down with the ship until the very end. You think there's ANYTHING AEW could do to get people like Cattle to stop watching? It's too ingrained in their personality that liking the "real" wrestling makes them unique and special.

I don't think it's possible for them to alienate their hardcore fans tbh. The people they've alienated over the last couple years were the CM Punk fans that came back to watch him, and some of the people who enjoy watching both WWE and AEW. The hardcores will stay till the very end. There were still people going to 2000 WCW shows

 

[Brad Piff]

lol every 3 pages this thread circles back to the growth conversation and I have no idea why


These dudes clearly aren’t going to grow anymore. That lil growth period for the new upstart is finished. Done. Finito. They are who they are, and that’s what’s it’s gonna be from here on out. We can all accept that and just enjoy the ride mane

All these “what they need to do to grow!” posts be pointless lol

And you think they’re going to retain 100% of the audience they have now moving forward?

 

[Larry]

the thing is there are storyline beats on Rampage and Collision that occasionally lead to matches on Dynamite but we never see recaps of it so matches on Dynamite seem more random than they actually are, they just don't explain it

Lets also be real that the majority of the AEW fanbase is made up of people who think they are cool because they dislike the mainstream company in the industry. Those people would go down with the ship until the very end. You think there's ANYTHING AEW could do to get people like Cattle to stop watching? It's too ingrained in their personality that liking the "real" wrestling makes them unique and special.

I don't think it's possible for them to alienate their hardcore fans tbh. The people they've alienated over the last couple years were the CM Punk fans that came back to watch him, and some of the people who enjoy watching both WWE and AEW. The hardcores will stay till the very end. There were still people going to 2000 WCW shows

It would take Tony Khan walking down to the ring and going “het cattle, stop watching our shows bytch” for that nikka to even consider turning the channel




But I do think abandoning what got you here can easily lose a guy like me who might not be a super die hard but still likes the company, pays attention to what’s going on over there even when I’m not watching weekly, and even goes to live shows when they’re in town. That could easily change.


I only say that because it has before. There was a time when I was TNA man. I was following since the NWA TNA days in Nashville when mfs like the Flying Elvis’ were main eventing shows. The minute TNA jumped the gun and tried to be like WWE with Hogan and Bischoff, I was out. And once that sour taste was left in my mouth, there was really no return. I was off that train and never got back on.

The reason I even watch AEW now is because it gives me shyt I don’t see in WWE. The minute they try to be more like WWE it’s like… I can just watch WWE.

And you think they’re going to retain 100% of the audience they have now moving forward?

Nope, they’re gonna continue to fail upward like they’ve been doing (in terms of growth) and increase rights while overspending and not really profiting. the audience will slowly get smaller and smaller. And I mean that in the most respectful way lol that’s just the climate


And they’ll still be the #2 promotion in the US with a billionaire owner so it won’t matter much.

AEW is in no danger of folding man. They can turn no profit for the next decade and still be fine lol

 

[Finn Baller]

It would take Tony Khan walking down to the ring and going “het cattle, stop watching our shows bytch” for that nikka to even consider turning the channel




But I do think abandoning what got you here can easily lose a guy like me who might not be a super die hard but still likes the company, pays attention to what’s going on over there even when I’m not watching weekly, and even goes to live shows when they’re in town. That could easily change.


I only say that because it has before. There was a time when I was TNA man. I was following since the NWA TNA days in Nashville when mfs like the Flying Elvis’ were main eventing shows. The minute TNA jumped the gun and tried to be like WWE with Hogan and Bischoff, I was out. And once that sour taste was left in my mouth, there was really no return. I was off that train and never got back on.

The reason I even watch AEW now is because it gives me shyt I don’t see in WWE. The minute they try to be more like WWE it’s like… I can just watch WWE.






Nope, they’re gonna continue to fail upward like they’ve been doing (in terms of growth) and increase rights while overspending and not really profiting. the audience will slowly get smaller and smaller. And I mean that in the most respectful way lol that’s just the climate


And they’ll still be the #2 promotion in the US with a billionaire owner so it won’t matter much.

AEW is in no danger of folding man. They can turn no profit for the next decade and still be fine lol

I think what hurt TNA most was going head to head with Raw, people generally like watching wrestling live and if you're forcing TNA into DVR status, its easy to just fall out of it and not watch the shyt you recorded. I had to miss Raw last week and never got around to watching the whole show, I just saw the Seth/Cody promo and that was it.

They definitely made decisions that got away from the "core" TNA trademarks like the 6 sided ring and shyt like that, but I think TNA would've been fine had they not tried to take on Raw. Also they wouldn't have lost their original TV deal if they hadn't been so married to Vince fukking Russo


I don't think AEW needs to be drastically different. Just because the Patriots ran the league for 20 years with Tom Brady didn't mean other teams should've stopped drafting pocket passers and looked exclusively for dual threat QBs. Book a competent, logical show with larger than life characters and compelling storylines and people will tune in. You wanna be different from WWE? Make the storylines more edgy and racy and grounded in real life in ways WWE is unwilling to be because of the corporate sponsors etc. That's got more upside than having the BCC wrestle a bunch of random Mexicans and Japanese

 

[Larry]

I don't think AEW needs to be drastically different. Just because the Patriots ran the league for 20 years with Tom Brady didn't mean other teams should've stopped drafting pocket passers and looked exclusively for dual threat QBs. Book a competent, logical show with larger than life characters and compelling storylines and people will tune in. You wanna be different from WWE? Make the storylines more edgy and racy and grounded in real life in ways WWE is unwilling to be because of the corporate sponsors etc. That's got more upside than having the BCC wrestle a bunch of random Mexicans and Japanese

I could be way off and it could be just my theory, but I genuinely think if AEW wanted to grow a WWE sized audience, they’d have to sacrifice wrestling for soap opera style storytelling, and that means more than just “better stories”

It means significantly less wrestling and a bigger emphasis on storytelling. That means long segments and periods where you might go 30-40 minutes into a program without a single bell ringing. It means competitive longer matches on your weekly’s being replaced with maybe something less competitive and shorter with a screwy finish to to setup a future match and build toward a later climax. Etc.


And again, maybe I’m crazy but I don’t think that fanbase wants that. They talk so much shyt about how some WWE shows only have about 30 minutes of wrestling in 2 hours. If AEW followed that formula, it would be chaos lol

 

[Finn Baller]

I could be way off and it could be just my theory, but I genuinely think if AEW wanted to grow a WWE sized audience, they’d have to sacrifice wrestling for soap opera style storytelling, and that means more than just “better stories”

It means significantly less wrestling and a bigger emphasis on storytelling. That means long segments and periods where you might go 30-40 minutes into a program without a single bell ringing. It means competitive longer matches on your weekly’s being replaced with maybe something less competitive and shorter with a screwy finish to to setup a future match and build toward a later climax. Etc.


And again, maybe I’m crazy but I don’t think that fanbase wants that. They talk so much shyt about how some WWE shows only have about 30 minutes of wrestling in 2 hours. If AEW followed that formula, it would be chaos lol

I dropped an edit at the same time you posted so I'll just post it again here:

Lets be real here too. If AEW makes some big changes, where are people like Cattle and the people who like "scaring the hoes wrestling" gonna go? New Japan is broke and losing all their top stars, plus they have no real US TV to speak of. TNA isn't trying to cater to those people. The indies aren't on TV. They are pretty much stuck with AEW no matter what.

If AEW pivoted to episodes with less wrestling the AEW fans would just talk shyt about how their storylines are for adults, more mature, more layered blah blah blah. They are gonna try to find any perceived difference to feel superior about, it's just part of that fanbase's DNA. Most of it is just disingenuous. Plus as long as the matches still featured the same amount of flips and chop exchanges and blading, the in-ring shyt will still be exactly what they want and something somewhat different from WWE.

 

[Larry]

I dropped an edit at the same time you posted so I'll just post it again here:

Lets be real here too. If AEW makes some big changes, where are people like Cattle and the people who like "scaring the hoes wrestling" gonna go? New Japan is broke and losing all their top stars, plus they have no real US TV to speak of. TNA isn't trying to cater to those people. The indies aren't on TV. They are pretty much stuck with AEW no matter what.

If AEW pivoted to episodes with less wrestling the AEW fans would just talk shyt about how their storylines are for adults, more mature, more layered blah blah blah. They are gonna try to find any perceived difference to feel superior about, it's just part of that fanbase's DNA. Most of it is just disingenuous. Plus as long as the matches still featured the same amount of flips and chop exchanges and blading, the in-ring shyt will still be exactly what they want and something somewhat different from WWE.

I think it’s some truth to that lol. Still though, I think doing shyt under the assumption that the people who rockin with you aren’t going anywhere is a slippery slope. Real dangerous game.


shyt, Marvel/Disney thought they could start catering to women and cash in on all that girl power shyt with the same assumption that it’s core fanbase wasn’t going anywhere, and now they’re in the dumps with flop after flop.


Tried to cater to a fan that didn’t want them in the first place and the results are super ugly lol.. and it’s also like, are people who want a WWE style presentation even looking anywhere outside of WWE for that?

 

[Doctor Wily]

I think the women of aew are safe going forward for the most part if that company eventually folds.

I'm betting that by the end of the decade a all women's promotion backed by big money and a TV deal will become a reality.