"The typical HipHop origin story of Herc, Baam and Flash is a myth" - Grandmixer DXT

[IllmaticDelta]

@truth2you
@Supa
@tuckdog
@Mr. BROADWAY
@HarlemHottie
@im_sleep
@315
@Cadillac
@old boy
@winterwarz

@8WON6
@MAGARussiaLGBT Crunch
@T'krm
@NoHateLeftBehind
@gabbo

@UpAndComing

@Evamarie

@KingZimbabwe

@Black Lightning

@Father

@alpo

@frush11


"Dj Smokey and Disco King Mario predate Herc"



@4:50

he breaks it down even further on how the repeated hiphop origin story is perpetuated by pioneers who want all the shine for themselves so they purposely never bring up these heads that predate them. For those who don't know about Smokey, he was from the West Bronx like Herc:

repost:



dj smoke had bboys and he was around the same time as herc (actually before...many of the bboys we associate with herc were with smokey first))

“Herc had the recognition, he was the big name in the Bronx back then”, explains AJ. “Back then the guys with the big names were: Kool D, Disco King Mario, Smokey and the Smoke-a-trons, Pete DJ Jones, Grandmaster Flowers and Kool Herc. Not even Bambaataa had a big name at that time, you know what I’m sayin?”

Ill-literature with Skillz to Blaze: One Night At the Executive Playhouse

^^the ones I bolded in blue are all way before Herc (1968-1972). Dj Smoke is slightly before (1972)/from the same time and area as Herc (1973). More on him and his dance crew

Even dudes that later went to Herc's parties/were part of his crew have basically verified this.


Almighty KG from Cold Crush



recent interview (he's from herc's area)

NORIN RAD:"Most people probably know you for your great contributions to the Hiphop element of MCing as a legendary member of the Cold Crush Four MCees but as you told me you were once also a B-Boy. So when and where did you witness Breaking for the very first time?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"Well, I first witnessed Breaking in about 1971 at a DJ Smokey & The Master Plan Bunch party on Grant Avenue. I saw this guy named Crip and the original Mr. Freeze breakdancing and that's kinda like when I caught the bug right there....breakdancing. "





NORIN RAD:"Most people today have a certain image of what Breaking looks like in their mind but could you elaborate please on how the dance looked like when you first saw it?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"When I first saw it was more Uprock than it was like spinning on your back and stuff like that. That actually came a little later. It was more Uprocking....it was more about expressions and things like that, you know what I'm saying? When I saw these guys breakdancing which was The Smoke-A-Trons and The Luke-A-Trons.......but you know The Smoke-A-Trons they would do something I had never seen before and that I have never seen since. They were all like gymnastics and they would do somersaults and Arabian Nights..those are like flips you see in the olympics... and go down on the floor and all that. I never passed that test to do the flipping....because I wasn't a gymnast but these guys were like street gymnasts and they were like really good...You know how you see like sometimes B-Boys they do a B-Boy move and then they go down on the ground...these guys were doing that with flips and stuff like that!! It was incredible....it was so incredible so that's what I wanted to do 'cause I was too young to buy equipment (for DJing) and Graffiti...

Castles In The Sky: August 2018


.
.

Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts

Well, when did you guys decide that, from the Zulu Kings and all, that you three and Bambaataa were going to be The Soulsonic Force, more as a music group?

So it wound up just being us three that stuck it out. 'Cause me and G.L.O.B.E. were more in the hip-hop area than the Bronx River was. See, where we came from, we were hip-hop, with The L Brothers, DJ Smokey and the Smokeatron, he was from Grand Avenue. And a lot of guys, they don't talk about him. I'll get back to what we were saying, but DJ Smokey, and his brother Roscoe and the Smokeatron, they were the baddest motherfukkers out at the time, man. I mean, Flash couldn't touch them, Kool Herc couldn't touch them. Nobody was touchin' Smokey. And a lot of cats will not speak on him, which they should, because he is also a pioneer of hip-hop music.

And what happened to him?

I heard he moved out of state. I heard he moved before hip-hop music turned big. I guess he cut it loose and went about his life, but DJ Smokey and his brother Roscoe, let me tell you, they threw the baddest parties. You wanted to see some guys that could dance? Man, it was a show! There's a movie theatre we had over on 174th St in the Bronx River called The Dover movie theatre that had a place you could give parties - it's a church now - but he made that spot very popular. He used to throw block parties mostly on Grand Avenue. And this guy here, I wanna let the world know about him; he definitely deserves his props, man, because he was there in the beginning. And a lot of guys don't that brother his recognition, which is sad; and I'ma give it to him every time all the time

Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)

.
.
.

here goes an OG bboy who was part of herc's team who said he was bboying way before he heard of herc and was down with dj dmoke first!

Clark Kent:

NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the legendary (N***er) Twins?"

CLARK KENT:"Well, we met when we were 8 years old and we did everything together in the beginning of hiphop. If you saw me, you saw the Twins...if you saw the Twins, you saw me..our names were cemented together, okay?! There's nothing that they were involved in that I wasn't there for and there is nothing that I was involved in that they wasn't there for. We were like triplets. Wherever you seen one you seen all three of us when it came to movin' around in Hiphop. We used to travel down to Chuck Center which is one of the places we really honed our skills at before finding out about Kool Herc and going to Kool Herc's parties. We would go to Chuck Center like every other week 'cause they had a dance contest and we used to love winning that dance contest."

NORIN RAD:"That's some precious knowledge!!! Chuck Center was located in East Harlem, right?"

CLARK KENT: "Yes on 115th Street & 2nd Avenue."

NORIN RAD: "So you were basically breaking at Chuck Center BEFORE you met Kool Herc?"

CLARK KENT:"Before I even met Kool Herc! That's where The (N***er) Twins and I honed our skills and we would go down there with cats like Wallace Dee and Chip. These are guys from the era of like Trixie and them. We ran with a whole host of cats down there before we found out what Herc was doing what he was doing on the Westside (of the Bronx).One of the names I wanna mention though is Dancing Doug!!!Back then Chuck Center was one of the places where we encountered Dancing Doug! The premier place to do breaking became Kool Herc's parties but prior to Kool Herc's we used to go to (DJ) Smokey's parties, you know, the Twins and I. From Smokey's we caught on to Chuck Center and then from Chuck Center we caught on to what Herc was doing. And out of all the places we went, you know, we honed our skills! A lot of people have this misconception that we got our skills at Kool Herc's...by the time the Twins and I arrived at Kool Herc's we was already elite!!!! And that's why we quickly ran through whoever thought they was somebody at Kool Herc's at that time.

Castles In The Sky

.
.
.
melle mel mentions him as the first person he saw doing hiphop in the west bronx




Green Eyed Gene is from Brondale and his thoughts on Smokey/Herc





...........that herc origin myth is exactly that, a myth

.
.
now the man himself, Dj Smokey

NORIN RAD:"What made you pick up that name Smokey?"

DJ SMOKEY:"I was running track in Taft High School and I could run really fast. When I ran the dust would be kicking up from my sneakers. They would say, "What do we got here? You're smoking!" "Hey, Smokey!" See! So the name kept sticking. I kept the nickname when I was DJing..it said DJ Smokey! That's how the name came about..DJ Smokey! As time went on I dropped the Y and it was DJ Smoke. People just kept calling me DJ Smokey. Flash and them would call me DJ Smokey. Kool Herc called me DJ Smokey."


NORIN RAD: "When did you form your dance crew? The Smoke-A-Trons? Was that around 1974/75?"

DJ SMOKEY: "No. That was around 1972."

NORIN RAD: "From your recollection how did Breaking as a dance come about? What are its roots?"

DJ SMOKEY: " Okay, in 1969 the dance at these 25 Cent parties in the basements and in the clubs started to change, it was more of a expression vibe. Like this song that came out in 1970 "Express Yourself!" You see it was more of a rush dance, a anger dance. "Say It Loud I'm Black And I'm Proud" ..they were like "Ahhhh, I'm angry!" A anger dance!! Like "I'm tired of all this shyt....who you're calling ******?" and it was also like "I'm from this block you're from that block!" You know what I'm saying? Two guys would go at each other....




NORIN RAD:"Damn! Melle Mel mentioned that the first B-Boy party he ever witnessed took place at The Cave with you playing the music....Was that a club?"

DJ SMOKEY:"It was a community center. One of the buildings had a big community center and it was in that center!"



NORIN RAD:" From what I've heard you also used to do parties at your apartment on Grant Avenue where B-Boys got down at heavily..."

DJ SMOKEY:" Yes!! All day long!!! All day long!!! My apartment was on 169th street & Grant Avenue...5D!!! On the fifth floor....We played music 24/7 !! That's where my Smoke-A-Trons..they would come in there daily, hang out and dance. We would also do block parties on Grant Avenue in the summer time."







NORIN RAD:"Who were your DJ partners back then? That ran with your crew?"

DJ SMOKEY:"Jerry D! Rob The Gold! There were also a lot of other DJs that played with me like Flash, Lovebug Starski and Mean Gene (from the legendary L-Brothers)."


DJ Rob The Gold (The Master Plan Bunch)

DJ Jerry Dee (The Master Plan Bunch)

Castles In The Sky



.
.
.
mario's place has been now recently firmly established

 

[alpo]

And the sonning continues

 

[IllmaticDelta]

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE PAST AND PRESENT DOCUMENTATION OF HIP HOP AND WHAT’S BEING WRITTEN FROM WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE IS?

It’s an unfortunate misinterpretation of history. Because the journalists who asked the questions in the 1980’s asked the wrong people and the wrong questions. It’s now a romanticized myth.

Hip Hop Pioneer GrandMixer DXT Interview

 

[im_sleep]

Has anyone on a mainstream platform spoke on these facts?

Because if not it’s long overdue

 

[BlackDiBiase]

deep was just listening to a melle mel interview, but i never got the impression the pioneers tried to take all the credit they always gave props.

 

[old boy]

appreciate all the information my brother. this shyt is ether to all that nonsense about how jamaicans & some damn puerto rican immigrants invented hip hop. a false narrative born out of white journalists giving all credit to herc when dj smokey now dj smoke, mario, flowers and them were HIS big homies

it's gonna suck when 2023 rolls around because you know it'll be that hip hop turns 50, herc is the inventor, dancehall reggae is the mother of hip hop, and a ton of other devilish tricknology misinformation along with that. man it's been fukk busta rhymes ever since he been pushing that puerto ricans and west indians invented hip hop culture because america has no culture. i will have my eye on him, doug e fresh, ej evil dee, and every other immigrant hip hop head august 11th, 2023 because watch, the white supremacists are gonna go all out with this & they always use us immigrants as tools of tyranny & oppression. prime example tarana burke

hopefully the black grassroots via all of this information we getting from our brother illmatic delta will have enough strength to neutralize all that bullshyt by the time it pops off

 

[alpo]

 

[alpo]

appreciate all the information my brother. this shyt is ether to all that nonsense about how jamaicans & some damn puerto rican immigrants invented hip hop. a false narrative born out of white journalists giving all credit to herc when dj smokey now dj smoke, mario, flowers and them were HIS big homies

it's gonna suck when 2023 rolls around because you know it'll be that hip hop turns 50, herc is the inventor, dancehall reggae is the mother of hip hop, and a ton of other devilish tricknology misinformation along with that. man it's been fukk busta rhymes ever since he been pushing that puerto ricans and west indians invented hip hop culture because america has no culture. i will have my eye on him, doug e fresh, ej evil dee, and every other immigrant hip hop head august 11th, 2023 because watch, the white supremacists are gonna go all out with this & they always use us immigrants as tools of tyranny & oppression. prime example tarana burke

hopefully the black grassroots via all of this information we getting from our brother illmatic delta will have enough strength to neutralize all that bullshyt by the time it pops off

 

[Neuromancer]

Is this about the origins of HIP-Hop based on country originators?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I ran across a Smokey video interview..it's kinda lacking though

Almighty KG : "There's definitely a conspiracy to keep these guys out of the history of hiphop"




.
.
.
Lucky (The Master Plan Bunch/Smoketrons): "Grandmasterflash used to watch and learn from us; we never let him touch the records other than pass us our records or help set the system up, but he won't tell ya that. I saw him one time on the street (recently) and I asked him, 'Flash, I've seen many of your interviews, and you never bring up Smokey & the Smoketrons, (flash responds) "Well, what part of the Bronx was yall rocking?"...and I looked at him and said, "Are you serious?"'




more on Flash being under him:

NORIN RAD:"What were your five favourite breakbeats?"

DJ SMOKEY:""It's Just Begun", "Apache", "Bongo Rock", "Open Sesame" by Kool & The Gang...there was version that had a nice beat on it.....sings, "Groove With The Jeannie"

NORIN RAD:"Who were your DJ partners back then? That ran with your crew?"

DJ SMOKEY:"Jerry D! Rob The Gold! There were also a lot of other DJs that played with me like Flash, Lovebug Starski and Mean Gene (from the legendary L-Brothers)."


DJ Rob The Gold (The Master Plan Bunch)

DJ Jerry Dee (The Master Plan Bunch)












NORIN RAD: "I don't mean to upset you but what was your relationship with Kool DJ Herc back then in the early to mid 1970ies?"

DJ SMOKEY: "I was his nemesis!"

NORIN RAD: "Ok, so you were rivals! Did you ever go against each other in a battle with your soundsystems?"

DJ SMOKEY: "Yes, we did . He definetely had the equipment but skillwise I was much better than him and I'm still better today. He did something very slick to me at the PAL back then. He had invited me there to do a battle of the DJs and he had all his equipment there, massive equipment, you know what I'm saying? Half an hour before the PAL closed I finally got on using some of my equipment but I only had two speakers with me, two Peavey columns. So I tried to tear his ass up with what I had. I was waiting for Grandmaster Flash to bring the rest of my equipment but by the time he got there the PAL already closed. So Herc basically drowned me out because he had all his speakers there. Everybody said he won, he did not win..."

Castles In The Sky