Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - The Slotification of Liverpool is nearly complete
@ seeing soccer on newspapers like that
dennis roadman
nuclear war in my bag
make the same gesture le pen does, brehs
make gestures that french far-right leaders make at holocaust memorials in germany brehs
go to the holiest site on earth according to a certain group and make a random gesture that may or may not
be directed towards them. engage in randomness brehs
be anti-establishment brehs. be totally unrelated to anti-judaism brehs
make gestures unrelated to the holocaust brehs
...
so we can all be clear now that it's a) definitely an anti-jewish symbol and b) at best we can give these millionaire dunces the benefit of the doubt and say that they do anything that someone else tells them to do in front of a camera
Will read later and give my opinion.
Has been extra shyte lately but was really great last season. They may have Gonalons too. Benitez really trying to build a solid squad.
Yes and no.
As stated earlier, some DO use that sign to show their antisemitism. But the very first meaning was simply a middle finger or a "fukk you" (the stiff arm symbolizing an erected dikk and the second one the border of the anus basically), it may have changed because of antisemitic people, I don't know, I don't care. But in 2009, for the European election campaign in Ile de France, this dude Dieudonné was already publicly doin it with no backlash.
One of the first occurences of the gesture at 8:07.
The context : He's talking about Humans being nothing but Mammals (as just animals).
What he's saying from 7:55 : "All mammals are looking at us, they are organizing, Jacky. The Dolphin when it sees a Man these days (*mimicks dolphin*), it laughs at us ! Obviously. Because he knows that with its fin, it will fukk us that deep ! (*make quenelle gesture*)"
And I don't think either Riner or Parker and a bunch of other known french dudes (Yann Barthes for example) did it off antisemitism but simply to please Dieudonné who was posing with them or simply to make a gesture for the pic. Le Pen did it after it took off. Soral did it after it took off and so on. I'm absolutely not denying the antisemitism of a good part of "quenellists" and I couldn't care less about Dieudonné but I'm trying to be a little more objective than the media and stating that it's a little less simple than what they are saying.
The symbol in itself is stupid. But the context is also important. The Quenelle on a jewish site is antisemitic as it's basically fukk you to jewish people, but the quenelle on a football pitch is just a celebration gesture. The comparison with the Nazi salute is also way too much because the Nazi salute was before hand an italian Fascist salute then a greeting to the Fuhrer and the symbol of the Nazi ideology when the quenelle was simply done by a comedian to shyt on the establishment.
Anelka was doing the dove sign for some times, he did the Kaaris gesture a few weeks ago, it was simply a celebration... Anelka been dedicated his goals to his rapper/comedian friends. Can't believe that story is that big.
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dennis roadman
nuclear war in my bag
yeah brehs, i get that it may have a different origin than it's meaning today, but so does the swastika.
when a jew or ANY person sees
is he wrong in not going "
probably just an ancient indic symbol of good luck, strength, and stability 
"
wherever it started, it clearly is being used as an anti-jewish symbol today
and nah i dont think anelka is a neo-nazi or even anti-semite. he's probably not that well-versed in anything except moping about and scoring the occasional goal tbh.
i also agree that it's not a "nazi salute" as a nazi salute was a take-off from the fascist salute, which was a reincarnation of the old roman salute. but when brehs are specifically doing it at fukking concentration camps and holocaust memorials, it's not wrong to associate it with a presently more subtle incarnation of a salute to nazism.
when a jew or ANY person sees
probably just an ancient indic symbol of good luck, strength, and stability "wherever it started, it clearly is being used as an anti-jewish symbol today
and nah i dont think anelka is a neo-nazi or even anti-semite. he's probably not that well-versed in anything except moping about and scoring the occasional goal tbh.
i also agree that it's not a "nazi salute" as a nazi salute was a take-off from the fascist salute, which was a reincarnation of the old roman salute. but when brehs are specifically doing it at fukking concentration camps and holocaust memorials, it's not wrong to associate it with a presently more subtle incarnation of a salute to nazism.
Jamie Redknapp criticizing Coutinho and Sakho for swapping shirts with Oscar and Eto'0 at half time while admitting to doing the same shyt too 
its as stupid as calling racism against white people "reverse racism"
opponents calling it reverse nazi salute do evoke stronger negative sentiments against it though. shyt calling calling it reverse nazi salute is stupid in the first place.
its as stupid as calling racism against white people "reverse racism"
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thatrapsfan
Superstar
How many of the athletes under fire have made the sign at anything remotely Jewish? It's pretty clear they all did it because they're fans of Dieudonne. His sign got co-opted by those far right dudes and not vice versa. Likening it to a middle finger makes a lot more sense than a Nazi salute.
There's also thousands of photos of random black and Arab French dudes doing it everywhere FWIW.
There's also thousands of photos of random black and Arab French dudes doing it everywhere FWIW.
Obama Era Survivor
Banned
I don't get how the politics of a Christian dominated country can make a bunch of blacks and arabs anti jewish. Maybe I'm missing something.
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dennis roadman
nuclear war in my bag
none that we know of, but they're making the same sign as people who've gone out of their way to do it to offend jews, and they've been photographed with a dude who is anti-zionist, which is the easiest way to say you dont like jews (as has been already acknowledged in this thread)
i'm all for anti-establishment sentiments. it's sad that it's been co-opted by anti-semites and far right wingers (even if it's a retarded symbol and created by an idiotic entertainer). the irony of black and arab french dudes doing it, even under the assumption of them making a point of anti-zionism, is that they deserve the very things that zionists have procured for their people: a government that protects them from larger and more powerful ruling classes. zionism itself is not racism or jewish supremacy, it's just the will to exert your right to exist as a jew. just like black nationalism in the US is not anti-white or black supremacy, it's just a desire to not have to live under a government that oppresses you by default. i'm in support of all oppressed peoples having the right to control their own resources and destinies, including jews (and palestinians, for that matter). thus anti-zionism rubs me the wrong way and often appears to be an easy way to deflect one's dislike of jews.
the same conflation happened with skins in the 70s and 80s to the point that "skinhead" today in at least american english equates to "neo-nazi", when the movement came from something on the completely opposite side of the sociopolitical spectrum
but to dismiss this as "just some symbol" in every single context is errant. let's do a test: tell me the very first thing you think of when you see this picture:
yeah brehs, i get that it may have a different origin than it's meaning today, but so does the swastika.
when a jew or ANY person seesis he wrong in not going "
wherever it started, it clearly is being used as an anti-jewish symbol today
and nah i dont think anelka is a neo-nazi or even anti-semite. he's probably not that well-versed in anything except moping about and scoring the occasional goal tbh.
i also agree that it's not a "nazi salute" as a nazi salute was a take-off from the fascist salute, which was a reincarnation of the old roman salute. but when brehs are specifically doing it at fukking concentration camps and holocaust memorials, it's not wrong to associate it with a presently more subtle incarnation of a salute to nazism.
Buddhist swastika has lines going left.
dennis roadman
nuclear war in my bag
the swastika predates buddhism and is used by hindus, buddhists (in several different countries and of different schools), jains, and zoroastrians. it has arms pointing in a variety of directions and none are necessarily relegated to being used strictly by one religion
jaydolf spitler
Superstar
I'm not gonna post the article, but I 
every time I see a tweet and a link about EPL getting "best ratings ever"
they actually had the audacity to say Man City/Liverpool was the "highest rated boxing day epl match ever" and they streamed a record 2.2 million MINUTES!!!!!
how many espn stats can they come up with to pretend the epl has reached some kind of popularity here?
every time I see a tweet and a link about EPL getting "best ratings ever"they actually had the audacity to say Man City/Liverpool was the "highest rated boxing day epl match ever" and they streamed a record 2.2 million MINUTES!!!!!
how many espn stats can they come up with to pretend the epl has reached some kind of popularity here?
thatrapsfan
Superstar
none that we know of, but they're making the same sign as people who've gone out of their way to do it to offend jews, and they've been photographed with a dude who is anti-zionist, which is the easiest way to say you dont like jews (as has been already acknowledged in this thread)
i'm all for anti-establishment sentiments. it's sad that it's been co-opted by anti-semites and far right wingers (even if it's a retarded symbol and created by an idiotic entertainer). the irony of black and arab french dudes doing it, even under the assumption of them making a point of anti-zionism, is that they deserve the very things that zionists have procured for their people: a government that protects them from larger and more powerful ruling classes. zionism itself is not racism or jewish supremacy, it's just the will to exert your right to exist as a jew. just like black nationalism in the US is not anti-white or black supremacy, it's just a desire to not have to live under a government that oppresses you by default. i'm in support of all oppressed peoples having the right to control their own resources and destinies, including jews (and palestinians, for that matter). thus anti-zionism rubs me the wrong way and often appears to be an easy way to deflect one's dislike of jews.
the same conflation happened with skins in the 70s and 80s to the point that "skinhead" today in at least american english equates to "neo-nazi", when the movement came from something on the completely opposite side of the sociopolitical spectrum
but to dismiss this as "just some symbol" in every single context is errant. let's do a test: tell me the very first thing you think of when you see this picture:then after you reply with your instantaneous reaction, google image search it.
Interesting points, especially your last.
I don't see how getting photographed with Dieudonne is an indictment on anything though. That anti Zionism isn't even what he's instantly recognized or associated with, he's a very popular comedian. Again my point ( as Liu Kang noted already) is that it's largely seen as a middle finger sort of symbol. You can't dismiss the fact the majority of people who've used it were not making a statement about Zionism or anything related to Jews.
Don't what to get into a tangent but while Zionism core ideals were self empowerment, in practice it resulted in forced displacement of indigenous people and ethnic cleansing( ongoing with protracted settlement building). You made the analogy to black nationalism and an example of it in practice( Liberia) led to its own sort of settler colonialism and repression. Dismissing a critique of it as simply being anti Semitic is way too dismissive . Some might steer in that direction but there are definitely wholly legitimate critiques of Israel to be had.
